Remember folks, you live in a republic. You can change the government if you want...

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D

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
It's ok to complain about the government spying on you, but constructive criticism is better than cynicism or, worse, apathy. Don't like what's going on in Washington? Call up your local representative. Don't like their response? Vote them out of office. Get involved. Doing nothing will tell them that they can continue to shit all over the constitution so long as it's "legal".

We all deserve the government we have.
 
Kadarin

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
Change the government? Sure, when you have a realistic choice of either Democratic or Republican...
 
ivwshane

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,369
16,750
136
Dari said:
It's ok to complain about the government spying on you, but constructive criticism is better than cynicism or, worse, apathy. Don't like what's going on in Washington? Call up your local representative. Don't like their response? Vote them out of office. Get involved. Doing nothing will tell them that they can continue to shit all over the constitution so long as it's "legal".

We all deserve the government we have.
Click to expand...

Lol! The very first reply was cynicism. Look at all the threads that complain about Obama, almost all of them have no solutions and just consist of whining and bitching or cynicism and apathy. When problems are discussed and solutions are provided or asked for the thread dies.

I agree with you 100% but the road is a tough and long one, I'll keep fighting and hopefully more will join.
 
N

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
76
Voting is just another term for begging. Your masters only see this as confirming their ownership of you. Your approval of their treatment is your "ballot".
 
D

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
ivwshane said:
Lol! The very first reply was cynicism. Look at all the threads that complain about Obama, almost all of them have no solutions and just consist of whining and bitching or cynicism and apathy. When problems are discussed and solutions are provided or asked for the thread dies.

I agree with you 100% but the road is a tough and long one, I'll keep fighting and hopefully more will join.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's what the folks in Washington are banking on. If there are no changes in the next election cycles over this spying threat, then we truly do deserve it.
 
boomerang

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
Too many on the government dole. Pass the DREAM act and our fate is sealed. Can't change D.C. with mere votes. Only two ways to change the course of the nation. Military coup or overthrow by the people and in the case of the latter, civil war will be required first. Those dependent on .gov must be dealt with first.

Harsh, but reality.
 
CPA

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
I wish we still lived in a Republic. The only semblance of that is the electoral college, and you have many that want to get rid of it.
 
Scotteq

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
boomerang said:
Too many on the government dole. Pass the DREAM act and our fate is sealed. Can't change D.C. with mere votes. Only two ways to change the course of the nation. Military coup or overthrow by the people and in the case of the latter, civil war will be required first. Those dependent on .gov must be dealt with first.

Harsh, but reality.
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There is a third choice: Emigrate.

And I don't mean that in the "YooEssAaay FukYeahhh! Love it or GTFO" sense. Not at all. But rather as a cold, logical, economic and personal decision. A widespread example in relatively recent history was the large influx of people from Hong Kong in the years prior to the return of control to China. In hindsight, driven at least in part by FUD and as a way for families to hedge themselves through their children. But real, nevertheless.

It's a big world, and somewhere there could be a place where one can live and thrive. How do people really live in - England, or Australia, ...Canada... New Zealand... What are the opportunities? Risks? Cost and 'Opportunity Cost'? Quality of life?

At the very least, a semi serious effort to look into the alternatives might give one a new perspective.
 
Dissipate

Dissipate

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2004
6,815
0
0
Scotteq said:
There is a third choice: Emigrate.

And I don't mean that in the "YooEssAaay FukYeahhh! Love it or GTFO" sense. Not at all. But rather as a cold, logical, economic and personal decision. A widespread example in relatively recent history was the large influx of people from Hong Kong in the years prior to the return of control to China. In hindsight, driven at least in part by FUD and as a way for families to hedge themselves through their children. But real, nevertheless.

It's a big world, and somewhere there could be a place where one can live and thrive. How do people really live in - England, or Australia, ...Canada... New Zealand... What are the opportunities? Risks? Cost and 'Opportunity Cost'? Quality of life?

At the very least, a semi serious effort to look into the alternatives might give one a new perspective.
Click to expand...

England? Are you Fing kidding me? Yeah, maybe they don't have something like the NSA but they want to filter the Internet at the ISP in the name of the 'children'... As for the other countries on your list, they are all nanny states as well.
 
Scotteq

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
Dissipate said:
England? Are you Fing kidding me? Yeah, maybe they don't have something like the NSA but they want to filter the Internet at the ISP in the name of the 'children'... As for the other countries on your list, they are all nanny states as well.
Click to expand...

*shrug*

I picked English speaking nations, since we speak English on this forum...


...more or less :hmm:
 
Matt1970

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Brand loyalty to the "D" or the "R" seems to get in the way of people voting their conscience.
 
D

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
TerryMathews said:
Am I wrong? Do you like the electoral college as is?
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Yes and yes. My beef is not with the structure of the government but with how the voters oversee the managers (politicians and bureaucrats). I feel that government can get away with abusing the constitution or passing ridiculous laws because the voters are not paying enough attention. We are not as engaged to keep the managers' foot to the fire. Just as parents are ultimately responsible for the what kind of adult their children are programmed into being, citizens are ultimately responsible for the government we have.

Matt1970 said:
Brand loyalty to the "D" or the "R" seems to get in the way of people voting their conscience.
Click to expand...

Does that include you?
 
Dannar26

Dannar26

Senior member
Mar 13, 2012
754
142
106
I understand your sentiment Dari, I really do. But responsibility is outdated. To those of average intelligence and work ethic the choice reads something like this:

Republicans: Hard work and responsibility son, that's how you get ahead. Even then it's no guarantee. There are no guarantees in life.

Democrats: Screw that noise! You get a hand out! You get a hand out! Where did it all come from? Don't think about it! We'll make some evil rich guy pay because, you know, they're evil. Not that you really care...you're getting free stuff!

Who will choose the hard truth over free stuff?

Not to insult the lot of political lefties here...you guys do it for the ideology behind helping people out. And nobility like that is cool; I've logged a lot of volunteer hours in my time too. But people need to start fending for themselves, or we'll be snuffed out by a human tidal wave of people who only know dependency.
 
boochi

boochi

Senior member
May 21, 2011
983
0
0
Dari said:
That's violent, messy, and highly inefficient. When given a choice, the ballot, not the bullet, is better.
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We are overpopulated with too many leeches and we need to thin the numbers.
 
Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,455
9,677
136
Divide and Conquer. It was applied to the American people. We are successfully pitted against each other on trivial issues while the parties jointly rape us on major issues.

"You can change the government". Really? Who can compete against mass handouts? The alternative is saying no to easy money. No to corrupt government. People want to get paid. The fix is in.

The only peaceful alternative is to gather enough like minded people to elect majority control in a few states. Then to secede from the Union. Forsake that which is already lost and focus on sustaining that which you can save.

Much as I'd like a national Civil Liberties party, that'll never happen. I'll vote for it, but that doesn't mean it's going anywhere. In order to save the United States we must first balkanize it. Rip apart its power structure via secession. Then we'll be free to organize alternatives.
 
D

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Jaskalas said:
Divide and Conquer. It was applied to the American people. We are successfully pitted against each other on trivial issues while the parties jointly rape us on major issues.

"You can change the government". Really? Who can compete against mass handouts? The alternative is saying no to easy money. No to corrupt government. People want to get paid. The fix is in.

The only peaceful alternative is to gather enough like minded people to elect majority control in a few states. Then to secede from the Union. Forsake that which is already lost and focus on sustaining that which you can save.

Much as I'd like a national Civil Liberties party, that'll never happen. I'll vote for it, but that doesn't mean it's going anywhere. In order to save the United States we must first balkanize it. Rip apart its power structure via secession. Then we'll be free to organize alternatives.
Click to expand...

So, basically you're saying the problem is us. Then why can't we be the solution? They are giving us these handouts (social and corporate welfare, etc...) because that's what voters want. No matter where you go, there it is. A new country won't change that. Only we can. From within. Instead of worrying about what's good for each individual, perhaps we should worry about what's good for the nation, and start to act accordingly...
 
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