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Remember atheist believer and think Democratic Republican.

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,733
3,557
126
The Republican party is a religion and a dangerous one. It is a party of the faithful who believe in lies.

The Democratic party is not a religion but a rejection of Republican faith. These are not two different competing religions.

One uses faith and one uses reason. One believes and one is atheistic.

Where do you stand. Are you a religious believer or do you believe in fact science and reason?

A pox on both your houses the disappointed sing because they see only opposites when the two are completely different things.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,017
571
126
The Republican party is a religion and a dangerous one. It is a party of the faithful who believe in lies.

The Democratic party is not a religion but a rejection of Republican faith. These are not two different competing religions.

One uses faith and one uses reason. One believes and one is atheistic.

Where do you stand. Are you a religious believer or do you believe in fact science and reason?

A pox on both your houses the disappointed sing because they see only opposites when the two are completely different things.
How is religious faith incompatible with "fact, science, and reason?"
 

alzan

Diamond Member
May 21, 2003
3,861
2
0
How is religious faith incompatible with "fact, science, and reason?"
He's not saying that they're incompatible, he's that they are seen as being opposites of each other when they're really completely different things.

You'll find people of faith in all walks of life who daily shut down their faith so that they can do their jobs; most of which interact with or which depend on one or more of "fact, science and reason." You will also find to a lesser degree people who choose to ignore or interact with on a zero-to-base level "fact, science and reason" and instead interact only with their faith.

There's nothing really wrong with doing one or the other but they can be intermixed successfully as long as one remembers the boundaries.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,649
0
76
www.facebook.com
How is religious faith incompatible with "fact, science, and reason?"
I don't understand either. Religious faith is just a type of faith and there may be no human alive today who knows the truth. That's why I'm generally a deist because perhaps the universe is the lord or perhaps the Torah has some truth to it and it has been corrupted for everyone but the Paleo Hebrews, certainly none of whom are still living in more pure form than less pure form.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,322
6,411
136
I don't understand either. Religious faith is just a type of faith and there may be no human alive today who knows the truth. That's why I'm generally a deist because perhaps the universe is the lord or perhaps the Torah has some truth to it and it has been corrupted for everyone but the Paleo Hebrews, certainly none of whom are still living in more pure form than less pure form.
I believe that if we remove God from our government, God will punish this country. Therefore, it is in all of our best interests that we make God even more of an integral part of our government. That is why I will vote for any politician that says they will put an end to abortion. It is because I know better than everyone else.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,733
3,557
126
How is religious faith incompatible with "fact, science, and reason?"
Because faith is belief without science, fact, or reason, maybe?

But please don't assume that I have contempt for faith. Like everything else, though, the difference between real faith and phony belief is invisible to the phony. You will know them by their fruits, but you have first to know what fruit is.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,353
1
81
Because faith is belief without science, fact, or reason, maybe?

But please don't assume that I have contempt for faith. Like everything else, though, the difference between real faith and phony belief is invisible to the phony. You will know them by their fruits, but you have first to know what fruit is.
You have absolute, blind faith in thousands of things every day. You take science on faith. You do not know why things work, but you believe that they do. More importantly, perhaps, is that you believe they will continue to work as you think they should. This implies a belief in an unchanging set of laws by which all matter is constrained across time. From which philosophical orifice doth this belief emanate?
 

SheHateMe

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2012
7,251
20
81
I believe that if we remove God from our government, God will punish this country. Therefore, it is in all of our best interests that we make God even more of an integral part of our government. That is why I will vote for any politician that says they will put an end to abortion. It is because I know better than everyone else.
:sneaky:
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,733
3,557
126
Open your eyes. Nearly every thread of his is seeking validation of his own warped view of the enemy(Republicans).
I deny your faith that my view is warped. I present only the known scientific facts regarding conservative incapacity to reason, their susceptibility to altered reality thinking and the danger they present to the nation via their delusional thinking. You can only yammer on about what is only your opinion. You make only claims that don't appeal to scientific theory, facts, or reason. You are exactly as I have described. What you in your blind religious state call validation, I call an attempt to save humanity from extinction. Your fucked up minds are a danger to the human race. And there is no doubt about it at all.

But of course you mean well. They always do!
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
81
How is religious faith incompatible with "fact, science, and reason?"
Really? If you have to ask you are in way to deep. Faith is antithetical to reason. It is believing in something when the evidence says it isn't so. It is the opposite of reason and logic.


You have absolute, blind faith in thousands of things every day. You take science on faith. You do not know why things work, but you believe that they do. More importantly, perhaps, is that you believe they will continue to work as you think they should. This implies a belief in an unchanging set of laws by which all matter is constrained across time. From which philosophical orifice doth this belief emanate?

You are blurring the two different forms of belief together. "Believing" something is true that has basis in reality and has evidence is not the same as "belief" like faith. That is, thinking something without evidence, based solely on dogma, is true.

Believing a piece of wood will float based on induction and deduction is different than believing a man walked on water because some unknown man, who was not present, wrote about it decades after is was supposed to have happened,
 
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BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,587
9
81
I see no insecurity....why don`t you answer his question??
He's absolutely insecure. He feels compelled to start threads of this type frequently to convince himself that he is on the side of righteousness, and that anyone who is against him is the enemy. It's the very definition of religion, all of which are based in insecurity.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
The Republican party is a religion and a dangerous one. It is a party of the faithful who believe in lies.

The Democratic party is not a religion but a rejection of Republican faith. These are not two different competing religions.

One uses faith and one uses reason. One believes and one is atheistic.

Where do you stand. Are you a religious believer or do you believe in fact science and reason?

A pox on both your houses the disappointed sing because they see only opposites when the two are completely different things.
Really?

Funny how you are blind to your own faith and belief that we can find "angels" (bureaucrats, politicians, etc) in big government to run everything and be able to magically decided what is best for the individual without their consent. In the end you're just a mirrored caricature of that which you claim to loathe. Do yourself a favor and put down that little red book you like to wave around and which you believe gives you moral authority to cast judgement on others.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,079
186
106
Because faith is belief without science, fact, or reason, maybe?

Hmm, well, I can see how one who believes in religion could be blind to this.

Being an Atheist myself however... I can't see any two party system claiming to be more atheist than the other.

Most like an atheist party would be a third party. I don't think Obama is an atheist, if he was he would have never won to become the president.

As the rest the rant...


The Democratic party is not a religion but a rejection of Republican faith.

I can kinda see it, but there is no difference between one organized religion over another. Besides... I always thought republicans stood by the christian not the mormen belief ... however I do find it entertaining.

I think that the two parties are both going in the same direction religion wise, sadly... Decorates just have a watered down version of it. As most "D's" are for the "RIGHT" of an abortion... Most "D's" are for some sort of free healthcare for all (that in itself should be a religion thing) but when we print Trust in God in all of currency it makes one greedy and well... we can't have the poor getting access to health care that is a right for the rich or the people that have more of God's money.

Stem Cell research --- Yeah that was cut down the line when you had a born again moron such as bush mucking it up for the rest of us.

One Man one Woman --- Could you get any more religious BS than that? Again, A bush Fuck up and a disaster...

abstinence Holy shit batman... Only a retard like bush would have taught that in high school and ripped out all the condom machines. I mean... abstinence causes people to become gay and it turns priests into pedophiles wanting to have sex with as many boys as they can. Hence. Every look up the word sex in the bibles? Does it include little boys? No? Good, go for it! Got to release it somehow right?

Global Warming! woha! Can you fail to see any truth or evidence in that?

Evolution? Shit, if bush had his way ... Like (real) sex ed, it would have never been taught in High School... Do you remember that these fools got enough money and bought enough scientist (thanks to bush) to almost get the word evolution out of the science books!

Could it be more cut and dried?

But the problem is... we are still faith based country --- and most are truly blind to science ... fact and reason... If it were NOT ... rommney would have been laughed out as real hack that he is a long time ago.

Moon, have you seen my bible? hahaha
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,801
3,315
126
My beliefs are fact and science, yours are superstitious voodoo likened to neanderthals.

Did I cover the OP?
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,017
571
126
Because faith is belief without science, fact, or reason, maybe?
No, faith is not arbitrarily deciding something to believe in. Some people may arrive at faith blindly, but others may also arrive at it through a reasoned approach. To put science and faith fundamentally at odds with each other is not only to oversimplify the issue, but to present a false dichotomy.

But please don't assume that I have contempt for faith. Like everything else, though, the difference between real faith and phony belief is invisible to the phony. You will know them by their fruits, but you have first to know what fruit is.
...I don't understand what you mean.
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
81
Some people may arrive at faith blindly, but others may also arrive at it through a reasoned approach. .
Really? So left on an island a child will grow up and believe that a Jewish man 2000 years ago walked on water, was killed and came back to life. That belief in the man is required to keep ones soul from eternal torture and damnation?

No, there is nothing reasoned about religious belief. People fear death and people fear being alone. Religion is sold to them either through indoctrination or conversion. The sky daddy gives them hope in the afterlife and social club to belong to. There is no reason behind the fantastical beliefs. People do not gather evidence for their religious beliefs, they do not carry out experiments and they never listen to contradictory evidence.

Na, I'm sure Mormons gathered the documents that Joseph Smith wrote, maybe they saw the golden tablets too? All that generic evidence to prove Native Americans are really transplanted Hebrews, right? :cool:
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,017
571
126
Really? If you have to ask you are in way to deep. Faith is antithetical to reason. It is believing in something when the evidence says it isn't so. It is the opposite of reason and logic.
I tend to respect atheists in their tough-mindedness, but if there's one thing about them that repels me, it's their arrogance in claiming a monopoly on reason and logic despite mountainous evidence to the contrary. Centuries of theological scholarship and philosophy which served to benefit the whole of mankind are thoughtlessly cast aside. If you believe that faith is so easily described, then you understand of it exactly nothing.

The opposite of reason is unreason. The opposite of logic is illogic. Not faith in the religious sense. Believing in God or something like god does not require an abject suspension of reason and logic.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,017
571
126
Really? So left on an island a child will grow up and believe that a Jewish man 2000 years ago walked on water, was killed and came back to life. That belief in the man is required to keep ones soul from eternal torture and damnation?
No, but he might begin to attribute his existence and the movements of the water and sky to elements outside of random chance.

No, there is nothing reasoned about religious belief. People fear death and people fear being alone. Religion is sold to them either through indoctrination or conversion. The sky daddy gives them hope in the afterlife and social club to belong to. There is no reason behind the fantastical beliefs. People do not gather evidence for their religious beliefs, they do not carry out experiments and they never listen to contradictory evidence.
I don't know how to respond to this other than that you really don't know what you're talking about. Some of the foremost theologians gathered exactly this sort of evidence. Aquinas was obsessed with it. CS Lewis was tortured by it. Numerous proofs for God's existence, based solely on logic and reason, have been made. Naturally, they're not completely airtight, as is the case with any proof.

Na, I'm sure Mormons gathered the documents that Joseph Smith wrote, maybe they saw the golden tablets too? All that generic evidence to prove Native Americans are really transplanted Hebrews, right? :cool:
All religions have their bizarre elements. But if one admits to the existence of God, you have to have a way to worship Him, and that means religion.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,733
3,557
126
You have absolute, blind faith in thousands of things every day. You take science on faith. You do not know why things work, but you believe that they do. More importantly, perhaps, is that you believe they will continue to work as you think they should. This implies a belief in an unchanging set of laws by which all matter is constrained across time. From which philosophical orifice doth this belief emanate?
Have you ever known what it is to be at cause, to know that everything that happens happen because of you. You thought that what Neo meant by choice was the exercise of will power instead of surrender to the Will of the Universe, that the Key Maker was joking when he said we do only what we were meant to. The Alpha and Omega are will and consequence, consequence and will. I am that I am that I am. I don't know anything about philosophy, sorry.
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
81
Apologist spending their day trying to back fill history to prove their faith "correct" is not reasoning. I never said humans do not wonder their place in the Universe. Belief in mystical none-sense may be a default position for our brains, just like Santa Claus is for kids. That is a far cry from religious belief and religious dogma being a product of reasoning. In fact is is the exact opposite. With the advent of the scientific method, our application of reason, you have humans losing religiosity except in those places where reason is the enemy of religion; like Afghanistan and the southern US.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,079
186
106
well... god only helps those who help themselves... Mathews 66:6
 

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