• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Remarkable slower WinXP boot up with new Raptor

Slaanesh

Member
I've just bought a new WD Raptor 74GB and installed WinXP on it, while using my old 250GB drive as data drive.

I was pretty suprised when I found out that my clean WinXP installation now boots about 15-20secs slower than before. I do notice two pauzes (each about 10secs) during the boot up proces while there isn't any HD activity at all. This doesnt change when I physically remove all my other drives (old HD, DVD and USB drives).
Is there anything I could try? Could this be driver related? It is my very first SATA boot drive, and installing windows didn't require any SATA driver floppies. (Installing the JMicron SATA controller driver afterwards didn't do anything special).

All advice is appreciated!


Specs:
C2D E6400 @3200 /w latest BIOS
Asus P5B
2GB OCZ DDR2 4-4-4-15
GF8800 GTS

- WD Raptor 74GB SATAI @ Intel ICH8 SATA port
- WD 250GB SATAII drive @ JBMicron SATA port
 
Hmm... I tried connecting the Raptor to the JBMicron SATA port on my PB5 and the boot delays are completely gone?!! What could have caused them? I'm sure it must be something driver related, no?
 
It could be hardware or software depending on where exactly the pauses are.

can you post what happens before and after each pause?

edit for clarity...
 
Try pressing F8 and doing a safe mode boot to Windows. See if it pauses and watch the text on the boot up screen to see where the pauses take place. Then try to determine what those boot processes involve. Maybe it won't hang booting in safe mode, maybe it will, but it's worth a shot.
 
You don't say exactly when your delay happens. If it's at POST, it has nothing to do with drivers. If it's during the loading of the Desktop, or XP just before that, it could be driver. What's the FULL model # of your drive? Mine is WD740ADFD-00NLR1.

What is a "JBMicron SATA port", is that a add-in PCI card or your mobo's 3rd-party controller? Is your old HD an SATA drive? If not, then you have nothing SATA related to which to compare it and it may be a controller issue and not Raptor related. If your old HD is a SATA, then it would be Raptor related or perhaps with the mobo BIOS.

I'm about to post some things about the new WD740ADFD (new Raptor with 16mb buffer if that's what you mean). It's totally blowing away the previous WD740 on every test, EXCEPT write tests where it's pretty bad! It has a LOWER result in PCmark04's "XP Startup" test, depending on the controller. Mobo is P4C800-E Deluxe, 875 chipset, Native controller is ICH5(R) and the other controller is a Promise 378. This new HD could be really picky about controllers. (It does not like my Promise controller on many tests). I am not using it yet, it's a bare drive.
 
Thanks for the help so far.

My drive is the WD740ADFD-00xxx, same as yours.
My ASUS P5B (i965) motherboard has 2 SATA controllers: 1 Intel ICH8 (4 ports) and 1 JBMicron (2 ports).
My previous OS drives were PATA IDE.
I coupled my disk to the ICH8 port again and the pauzes came back: once during the WinXP loading screen, once during the blue-ish "welcome" screen. Then disk activity resumes and I get to the desktop.
Booting in safe mode gives exact same results, except that everything seems to boot a little slower.
 
It was searching for the old hard drives.

Boot into safe mode. Go into the device manager and delete your old hard drives from there. Also go into storage manager and delete your old hard drives from there.
 
You guys are great. I practically cleared my startup list in Msconfig.exe and 'deleted' my old drives and now the delays are gone.
Thanks!!
 
haha wow malware 🙂 always slows stuf down.

Did you install the intel application accelerator? It really doesn't boost anything much, but it is the official chipset drive/perf package.

 
The IAA can only be installed on RAID config's. This used to NOT be the case on older mobo's.

I don't see how cleaning up a startup list or the Device Manager could have helped you since the slowdown was only on the Native controller. If were on both, I could understand that, but not one. Also, once hardware is removed from the PC is also removed from the Device Manager. I hookup/disconnect drives all the time and when they are disconnected, so are their entries in the DM. Furthermore, what's in the Msconfig startup list doesn't load in safe mode. I'm a bit confused on how any of that helped. 😕
 
Yeah me too actually. But all I did was change the HD to the JBMicron and back, started in safemode en cleaned those things. And now the delays are definitely gone... ?!
 
Could you check something please? This might explain something about the ADFD and 3rd party controllers. I never noticed this with my old WD740 (8mb buffer). But on this new one, I don't know if it's due to some kind of command or tagged or native queuing, or the 16mb buffer, a combo of both or something else. The ADFD is supposed to have NCQ (Native command queuing).

Most people may not be aware, but on my mobo (P4C800-E Deluxe) ANY HD on the Promise 3rd-party controller gives PHENOMENAL buffered HD benchmarks. This may be the same on any mobo's non-native controller, in your case that would be the JBMicron I assume. On AIDA32 for example, the buffered read results are over 1800MB/sec. That's not 180, but eighteen hundred. This is NOT a burst or peak, but CONSTANT from start to finish. On the AIDA32 random write tests, there's massive transient peak spike lasting only a ms or two I would guess that's anywhere from 150-270MB/sec depending on how many times the test is run. It varies a lot.

On HDTach 2.61-2.62, for the "Maximum write" result, there's also this massive transient peak spike lasting only a ms or two a the very instant the test begins, that is over 200-250MB/sec. On it's "Maximum read" test there is also this transient spike, but not nearly as high, about 116mb/sec for the OLD WD740, and much lower for other HD's.

So when I first started testing the new WD740, the ADFD, these peak spikes were no where to be found. Much more troubling was on the AIDA32 buffered read tests, where all other drives were 1800mb+, the ADFD was only about 85mb/sec across the chart. Also on HDTach, these massive spikes were also gone. So I'm thinking there's either something wrong with this ADFD I have, or it's just plain S-L-O-W on some tests, even MUCH MUCH slower than any other drive....on the Promise controller.

I hooked the old WD740 back up, and it still had these same fantastic scores. So, there's no issue with the controller, nor drivers. Out of desperation, since Asus still has not come out with any new Promise drivers since 2003, I tried the 2006 Promise RAID drivers. I new they would not work since I'm not running RAID, but I thought they may add "something" to the drivers that may help. Well, they did. After XP no longer recognized the HD's attached to the Promise controller (as expected), I then did a "Rollback" of the driver and restarted. I then noticed in MSCONFIG a new entry, another "Setwriteback" type of DLL file. Previously it was ptipbm.dll, but now it was that one plus ptipbmf.dll and it says "Setwritecachemode". These are some of the Promise controller drivers. The "f" is for "Fastrack", which is RAID.

I ran these aforementioned tests again, and the ADFD then had these great results like all the other HD's I've tested had. But, it stopped! WTF?? 😕 :Q A couple of days later when I realized I forgot a few tests for the ADFD on the Promise controller, I noticed it was back to these comparatively horrible results on these specific tests, yet both of the ptipbm* files were still loading with XP. So, I'm dumbfounded. :shocked: For the life of me I can't figure out what's going on. Why would they be great, like the other HD's, even better, then go back to bad like it was previously?

Interestingly enough, when I UNCHECKED one of those ptipbm* files in MSCONFIG, the OTHER HD's ALSO dropped from these 1800mb/sec+ scores in AIDA32 Buffered Read. If I HAD to GUESS, forced to guess, I'd have to say we're dealing with these Promise drivers not correctly "working with" (for lack of a better term) with these new WD740. But what's so new about it? It's just a HD, and just like the old WD740 except for NCQ and the 16mb buffer. I don't see how that would throw-off the controller and confuse it, and even if it did, why intermittently??? Test results should either be good all the time, or bad all the time; not bad, then great, then back to bad again! And through the bad/good/bad results, they are all totally consistent!

Maybe I do have a flaky ADFD after all, but on every other benchmark, (PCmark04 & 05, Winbench, HDtune, SANDRA, etc., etc.), on the other portions of AIDA32, HDTach, and on the Native controller, it pretty much blows away the other 12 HD's I've tested, even the old WD740. So it doesn't seem too flaky there.

Since your ADFD is your boot drive now, of course you can't do the write tests (AIDA32 and HDTach write tests destroy all data), but can you please run the HDTach read, and the AIDA32 "Buffered read" test and post the results? Also please check to see if you have any dll files or otherwise loading in MSCONFIG for the JBMicron controller.

Any comments from anyone on what may be going on is appreciated.
Thanks.
 
All right, I tried the buffered read tests from Aida32:

(both drives on Intel ICH8 controller)
- WD74ADFD with Intel ICH8 controller: 125MB/s during whole test.
- WD2500KS (my older SATAII drive) with Intel ICH8 controller: 117MB/s.


I looked through MSconfig but couldn't find anything resembling ptipbm(f).dll ... where did you saw that?

Edit:

because I'm such a nice guy 🙂 I opened my case again and moved my WD74 drive to the JBMicron controller, leaving only the WD2500KS on the intel controller. Results:

- WD2500KS with Intel ICH8 controller: 147MB/s !!!!!!!!!!
- WD74ADFD with JBMicron controller: 115MB/s !!!!!!!!!
- WD2500KS (my second 250GB drive, exact same as the internal one but in external case connected to the second (external) JBMicron port): 110MB/s.

The WD74 still easily wins in the RANDOM read benchmark.

Edit: the 117->147MB/s rise in speed (WD2500KS Intel port) is because I removed the Opt1 jumper on the disk drive 🙂

-> The WD2500 drive has consistently higher reading speeds than the WD74 drive ?!!
 
Thanks. Interesting. Yours is also getting worse results on the 3rd party controller, however that may be "normal" for that mobo FAIK. What I also find interesting is the "low" rates compared to the ~1800MB/sec I'm getting on ALL HD's, and WAS getting on the ADFD.

That ptipbm* file is ONLY for Promise controllers. That's why I said "Also please check to see if you have any dll files or otherwise loading in MSCONFIG for the JBMicron controller", I didn't specifically mention ptipbm because I knew you wouldn't have it. (This is under the "Startup" tab items). You may have something there loading for JBMicron, if not, you may want to look through that entire list and see if anything is there that's unchecked that's related to JBMicron. If you don't see anything, then that is also rather interesting. I'd wonder why Promise has a cache file loading and JBMicron has none. It obviously drastically increases performance.

I don't understand how your SATAII can have so different results with it on the SAME controller with it by itself, then with the ADFD. That's strange, I don't think that should be happening! It's almost like it's being "slaved", like in IDE!

At any rate, I've determined that something is either wrong with my ADFD, or, my controller just can't handle it properly because every other drive still has the great results on my Promise controller, except for the ADFD. I don't understand if the issue is controller or driver related because it DID have the great results then just stopped! I've uninstalled/reinstalled the Promise controller and drivers, and went through that whole process again that previously worked of installing those RAID drivers then the ATA after them. No matter what I do, the ADFD results suck. Even worse, I ran the other benchmarks again since this "issue", HDTach 2.62, PCmark04 & PCmark05, etc., ALL have significantly LOWER results than before!! Something is screwed up somewhere and I have NO IDEA where it is.

I got the ADFD locally at BestBuy and I'm exchanging it for another one, so hopefully that one not have this unexplainable behavior. If it does, then that only leaves a controller or driver issue which would not make sense because it doesn't affect any other drive on the controller!

I can't contact WD about it, the jerks trashed all their email addresses just like most every other hardware manufacturer.

Say, what's the firmware version of yours? Mine is 20.P702 or 20.07P20. I don't understand the discrepancy with different programs. Hey this is interesting...the difference is the controller! When it's on the Native, firmware shows as 20.07P20, but on the Promise controller it shows as 20.P702. Hmm. I also noticed that when it's on the Promise controller the drive's name isn't displayed properly! It's shown as sort of backwards, like DW CDW47A0FD-D00LN1R instead of WDC WD740ADFD-00NLR1. WTF??

I noticed in the AIDA HD info area the old WD740 has "72 ECC bytes" and the new one has 48 ECC bytes! I don't know why.

See this thread I started and my updated info in the 2nd post. May want to see if your controller is in that PDF file. http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=27&threadid=1989174&enterthread=y

This is all confusing the hell outta me. :frown: 😕
 
- The different results with the SATAII drive are, as I said, because of the removed OPT1 jumper (I needed that w/ my previous MB for compatibility reasons but it slows everything down).
- I figured out the WD74 drive is actually *supposed* to be slower than my SATAII drives, after all, it's only a 150MB/s drive while the others are 300MB/s 🙂
- Msconfig shows JMRaidTool.exe which was installed with that JBM Raid driver I installed, but which didn't do anything. It kept it unchecked, but now redid the benchmarks with the tool loaded during boot with same results.
- My MB's controller is in none of your PDF files, but I guess the P695 chipset is more recent than those lists.
 
Oh Ok.

Yeah I know about that about the other drive being SATAII, but it should only be higher on interface speed xfer tests. I have yet to see any benchmarks other than that where any SATAII drive beat the ADFD. You can see here in one example at one site where it's behind SATAII drives in interface speed: http://www.smartbase.tomshardware.com/2...sts/page6.html#interface_transfer_rate . Yet in read, write, and "file write performance" it's at the top. (Interesting the relatively poor showing in "XP startup performance" of only 10.1. On that exact same PCmark05 test, I got 12.773 on my setup! Which by far tops the list. That scored dropped to a 12.137 after this issue of mine started).

Since that file of yours is an exe file, what happens when you click it on your HD, and is it showing as running in the Task Manager at boot? If you click it to open it (if it then opens) it may be some kind of "tool" with settings options. It may also be a new applet in the XP Control Panel.

I don't know if your mobo chipset is newer than others in that ADFD PDF file, it's got to be pretty new (the file). That may not mean anything, but if it is old enough to have appeared in the PDF file, it could also possibly mean it doesn't work well with that controller.

I'm trying to contact WD about my issue and this (if any) issue with 3rd-party controllers.
 
Originally posted by: Slaanesh
Model#: WDC WD740ADFD--00NLR1
firmware: how to get?
It will tell you in the AIDA32 interface. Go to: Storage > ATA > then it will be under "Revision".

Where did you get yours? I brought mine back to BestBuy and got another one, it was ok as far as that AIDA32 buffered read; it got the ~1800mb/sec like the others. BUT, it got LOWER performance in every other test! Damn good thing I ran all of them again! I couldn't believe it, not just a little bit, but the quite a bit! 1st drive got about 85-90mb read & write, this 2nd only got 78-80! 1st drive got about 78mb+ avg reads, this 2nd one 69!! PCmark04 & 05 and Winbench scores were also much lower. I went to exchange for a 3rd one, and the mofo's were OUT of them! So now I have to get one from NewEgg. Thankfully they have a rebate now and are by far the cheapest online ($139.99 AR). BB had them for $119.95 + the insane LA tax amount of 9.5% didn't make it that much cheaper. Also, the ones at NewEgg are OEM.
 
Originally posted by: Slaanesh
Sorry, I got them in a local store here in Belgium so that won't help you 🙁
I don't know what the deal is with me not getting notifications here! I didn't see that you had replied.

But I'm still interested in your firmware version, even more so now since you're in Europe. 😉

 
Back
Top