Remanufactured Alternators . . . NOISE PROBLEM RESOLVED! SEE THANKSGIVING DAY POST

[BonzaiDuck]

This thread continues my exploratory discussion on AC compressors, "noises" and related matters .

As I said in that thread, I got my stethoscope out to find the source of a low-level cyclic clatter that would come and go at engine idle.

It wasn't the AC compressor. I don't think it likely it's some heatshield or other peripheral source of little consequence. For a few hours, I was worried it might be the waterpump or engine bearings. The stethoscope alleviated my worry about that.

I can't get my stethoscope on the alternator too easily, but I'll find a way. I can see a place I can insert it CAREFULLY (so the engine doesn't yank off my earlobes).

The original OEM alternator went south 30,000 miles ago. That means that the OEM original had been serviceable for 160,000 miles. My mechanic replaced it with an aftermarket or reman alternator, which went bad in six months and had to be replaced again under his warranty.

So far, things seem to be holding up. The noise isn't getting worse. But my experience with reman or aftermarket alternators in the past has left me with a profound bias. One time, I replaced the alternator myself on my Honda -- twice over a year with these rebuilds or aftermarket units. At that time, you would buy these replacements for at most $90. The original Honda part cost north of $200. As opposed to the others, it never failed.

Now, once again or as I mentioned per the OEM AC compressor, I find I can get the original OEM unit from the Isuzu Missouri parts depot for about $600. And also again, that's a hefty piece of change. I don't think the existing unit is ready to die right away, but I also incline to staving off disaster before it happens. I'll put my newly-acquired battery and charging tester on it soon.

Available reman options include an AC Delco unit for about $160 bucks. There are other brands below or around that price. My guess is that these units will be available for a long time into the future.

But I'm still wavering between acquiring the OEM unit and a reman. And the OEM is a "hefty piece of change". Any insights here? If I got 30,000 miles out of the reman unit that was installed in 2009, I could go just as far with another reman unit.

Doing the work myself would still be a PITA for a guy my age -- or maybe I'm just lazy -- but I'll have to put my SUV up on jackstands so I can get at that sucker. If I let the natural disaster occur whenever it happens, I could just have the repair shop order their choice of part and charge me maybe $500. But I worry that more damage could occur than just a broken fan belt if it seizes up. Doing it myself means an outlay of $600 for the OEM, less than $200 for the reman ACDelco. I'm pretty sure my mechanic could do the work without any worry of getting a bad part he couldn't return and replace, if I were to present him with the OEM unit.

So . . . . what about ACDelco reman alternators? Who knows?

 

[RLGL]

Best to go with OEM product.

 

[Torn Mind]

The alternator should have no rattles; it is literally a brushed motor with diodes, all tightly screwed together. Bearings can make a screechy noise if it is dying. Now, a good quality OEM alternator will feel like "liquid" when you spin its pulley and a bad one will feel "scratchy". Open it up if you are that curious, but I doubt anything will be found, especially if it is charging fine.

Ear on big screwdriver on alternator housing is how you "hear" an alternator.

Lifespan of AC compressors can vary based on manufacturer. I wouldn't count on a Honda lasting in hot weather in Florida. I have no clue of the build quality of an Izuzu.

 

[thedarkwolf]

Can you still buy rebuild kits for an alt? Been a long LONG time since I did one myself but I don't remember it being very hard. Actually the last one I had die I had rebuilt at a starter/alt rebuild shop that still existed here back around 2003ish, he did it for $15. He didn't rebuild it so much as he combined two dead alts into one working one.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I agree with RLGL about OEM alternators, citing again my story about the Honda. The original Isuzu unit in my vehicle had lasted about 160,000 miles.

On these items -- the AC compressor and alternator -- I'm looking at things that might have some early symptoms of failing so I can "stave off disaster" as opposed to waiting until either one freezes or fails. Given what I've heard without either the screwdriver or stethoscope, the alternator seems to be holding up but there is a slight cyclic repetition similar to the flap-flap of cards pinned to a bicycle wheel -- not nearly so loud. It comes and it goes, but it can be triggered by turning on the AC, which alters the strain put on all the serpentine belts.

The AC compressor with the stethoscope sounds like Torn Mind's description of a perfect OEM alternator -- like "liquid". Barely -- anything. And after 190,500 miles. It's the OEM Isuzu unit.

The alternator is a reman unit evident in the $455 cost of part and labor charged in 2009. It had to be replaced under warranty after six months. It now has about 30,000 miles of wear.

At the moment, I'm investigating the advantages of moving up from a 60 Amp alternator to a 75 Amp unit. While I'm going to look into the matter in just a moment as to how many fewer amps I draw with all LED lights, the 75 Amp version of the alternator means less stress on the part, working to a lower percentage of full capacity. The alternator with the higher spec doesn't cost significantly more.

So there's "desire" -- for a more powerful alternator unit. And there's "necessity" based on the decibel value of a noise. Right now, a lot of people unfamiliar with my Trooper wouldn't notice it. I'm trying to decide what I want and when I want it.

I'll have to use the stethoscope as opposed to a large screwdriver, because I don't have a screwdriver large and long enough to do the job. Mark my words, though, I've gone totally neurotic in my sensitivity to the idling sounds this car makes.

People would generally say it's pretty quiet under the bonnet.

I can have what I desire with either the OEM, a good reman unit, or a DIY rebuild. A reman unit might cost me $160 versus the $600 for OEM, but I can get a 75 Amp remanufacture.

I reduced the amperage and wattage draw of the headlights from 65W / 5.4 Amps to 36W / 3 Amps by replacing Halogen with LED (and super-bright). I increased draw by 18.6 W / 1.6 Amps for my audio, backup cam and android projects which included adding two USB QC ports. I don't need to run the charger all the time. My recently-added LED fog lights only get used at certain days and times, and they draw 21 W / 2.3 Amps.

So I don't think there's much hurry about this. I also reduced power consumption with LED sidemarker/signal/parking lights and LED interior lights over incandescent. This looks to be close to a breakeven trade-off or an actual improvement, so I can put my "desire" for a 75 Amp alternator on a back-burner until I'm sure the one on the car is going south.

This is what you do with pro-active attention to an old car: monitor noises . . . .

 

[Torn Mind]

A new alternator is almost always better than a reman; I'll explain why "almost" in a little bit.

OEM carries a certainty that aftermarket does not. HOWEVER, if I were taking a chance in the aftermarket, ACDelco Professional or Denso is what I'd buy. Denso is the OEM manufacturer anyway. New Densos or AcDelco Professional units don't seem to be avaialbe for your vehicle though on RockAuto, but remans are there.

Just last month, I replaced an alternator on a G20 van by GM. Ordered a new Delco-Remy alternator alternator from RockAuto because of "lifetime warranty"(shipping paid by me if I make the claim, of course), and did the "spin" test I mentioned earlier. The feel still gives me cause for concern as it spun rather "scratchy" compared to the busted OEM alternator that is 26 years old. Once installed, it certainly was nosier than the OEM Delco Remy, which was made back when GM owned Delco Remy. Now, it is pumping out DC voltage as it should, but the quality of the pulley bearing gives me cause for concern. This is for a brand new alternator, no less. Who knows what trash is tossed into a "reman".

The "hearing test" doesn't require specifically a big screwdriver. Just anything that can conduct sound well and comfortably reach the ear.

If you have converted to LED headlights, make sure your reflector bowls are changed to accommodate them.

Quite frankly, I think alternators last longer when used constantly. I have a hunch that moisture and non-use has a tendency to kill alternators for whatever reason. Because I have let two vehicles sit for over a year and their previously functioning alternators died, one via diode failure and the other by winding failure. Moisture can't stay for long if the heat from use keeps "burning" the moisture off.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

A DISCOVERY

[Recommendation appearing in description of various 75 A Alternator options]
"A higher amperage rating may improve gas mileage and reduce alternator wear."

150A Alternator for Isuzu Trooper 92-95 -- $180

Compared to the OEM offering, $180 is cheap, and the first one can produce twice the maximum amperage. I suspect my current alternator is the 60A model, even if the original OEM was a 75A (because my vehicle was loaded with options).

Answering the member who recommended a long screw-driver to act as a stethoscope, my own automotive stethoscope has a 24" probe that is 1/8" diameter steel. A medical stethoscope would require getting under the car. Any other strategy would be disastrous.

 

[mindless1]

60A, even 75A is very low for an SUV. My SUV of similar vintage is 130A, or stripped down base models of same used 90A.

New major brand alternators (need not be OEM) are superior, but possibly not worth the extra cost if you do not make long trips in the vehicle, into dark areas where there is no cell service in this cell phone era where a tow truck is only a call away.

Many popular alternators do have rebuild kits available. Some people prefer doing this to save money or at least make sure they are doing it right (or if they have no experience, maybe they are doing it no better than a rebuilt one would be), but at least with a good kit you can get major brand bearings instead of generic Chinese junk.

On the other hand, I have no problem with getting renam alternators from Autozone or Advance Auto with a lifetime warranty because they are just up the road from me and I don't take old vehicles on long trips where an alternator failure would be more of a hardship. Last 130A alternator was about $110 after a discount code.

Also consider how common your alternator is and how hard it is to replace. Last one I did only needed one socket size and 30 minutes, was a normally stocked part at auto parts stores so as long as it fails within an uber ride to an auto parts store, it is not a big deal to change it out. I should add that I keep receipts on my phone for Advance Auto purchases, but Autozone tracks it by phone # given at time of purchase.

Ultimately I feel like it's about the value of the vehicle. If you have a vehicle worth $4k or more, sure get the brand new OEM alternator. If you have an older, less valuable vehicle then it makes sense to economize on repairs as it does little good to pay an extra $200 for something that probably wouldn't fail before something else on the vehicle retires it to a junkyard anyway. Guess it also depends on how many miles you put on it, if it's a daily driver and you need it to get to work, there's value in keeping it as reliable as possible but remember that OEMs usually don't make alternators, buying same major brand that the OEM used will usually save over $100.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

60A, even 75A is very low for an SUV. My SUV of similar vintage is 130A, or stripped down base models of same used 90A.

New major brand alternators (need not be OEM) are superior, but possibly not worth the extra cost if you do not make long trips in the vehicle, into dark areas where there is no cell service in this cell phone era where a tow truck is only a call away.

Many popular alternators do have rebuild kits available. Some people prefer doing this to save money or at least make sure they are doing it right (or if they have no experience, maybe they are doing it no better than a rebuilt one would be), but at least with a good kit you can get major brand bearings instead of generic Chinese junk.

On the other hand, I have no problem with getting renam alternators from Autozone or Advance Auto with a lifetime warranty because they are just up the road from me and I don't take old vehicles on long trips where an alternator failure would be more of a hardship. Last 130A alternator was about $110 after a discount code.

Also consider how common your alternator is and how hard it is to replace. Last one I did only needed one socket size and 30 minutes, was a normally stocked part at auto parts stores so as long as it fails within an uber ride to an auto parts store, it is not a big deal to change it out. I should add that I keep receipts on my phone for Advance Auto purchases, but Autozone tracks it by phone # given at time of purchase.

Ultimately I feel like it's about the value of the vehicle. If you have a vehicle worth $4k or more, sure get the brand new OEM alternator. If you have an older, less valuable vehicle then it makes sense to economize on repairs as it does little good to pay an extra $200 for something that probably wouldn't fail before something else on the vehicle retires it to a junkyard anyway. Guess it also depends on how many miles you put on it, if it's a daily driver and you need it to get to work, there's value in keeping it as reliable as possible but remember that OEMs usually don't make alternators, buying same major brand that the OEM used will usually save over $100.

Yeah -- beginning with your last remarks -- I don't think I ever had a vehicle that I intended to put up for sale, although I should've thought about the prospects for selling my '64 SS Impala . . . for upwards of $25,000. All the rest, my plan has been to keep them maintained until they've either been totaled or need an engine replacement that's too pricey. I might even consider such an option, but for this Trooper, it's just not in the cards. That GM engine is going to last another 100,000 miles.

Last year when I was searching for a new mechanic and repair shop to keep in the Rolodex, I discovered there are mechanics who make assumptions about what you want to do with your car for having it repaired. They think you want to sell it, knowing that the vehicle has a blue-book value less than $1,000. So they might treat you and the vehicle accordingly -- Mechanics from Hell!

To me, given my spreadsheet of maintenance and repair history, the car is worth the $30,000 or more that I'd have to spend for a new SUV in the same class. It's all about stocks and flows of money and expense. I can easily afford $1,000 a year in maintenance, and it's still a winning proposition. that's two months of new-car payments -- nothing to fret about. For the insurance I'm probably saving $1,200 annually.

But you are correct. Why buy the OEM unit for $600 if you can get a reman or aftermarket of higher Amp rating for $200? Even if it doesn't last as long as the OEM, it won't go south for a while at <= 3,000 miles per annum.

Just came back from an errand. I can hear that noise that others wouldn't notice. I'm going to replace this alternator, but I want some input -- from my mechanic or anyone else -- about outfits that remanufacture these things. I'm less inclined to do it myself: you have to "do it right the first time". That is, I'm less inclined to rebuild an alternator myself, but I might do the installation. I have a belt-tensioner measuring device. It couldn't be hard -- just a couple bolts and an electrical plug. Just inconvenient because my home garage doesn't have a hydraulic lift. OF course, the observation you made about cheap Chinese bearings has me concerned. Some of these reman units have "Made in USA" in their Ebay ads . . . .

 

[Torn Mind]

60A, even 75A is very low for an SUV. My SUV of similar vintage is 130A, or stripped down base models of same used 90A.

New major brand alternators (need not be OEM) are superior, but possibly not worth the extra cost if you do not make long trips in the vehicle, into dark areas where there is no cell service in this cell phone era where a tow truck is only a call away.

Many popular alternators do have rebuild kits available. Some people prefer doing this to save money or at least make sure they are doing it right (or if they have no experience, maybe they are doing it no better than a rebuilt one would be), but at least with a good kit you can get major brand bearings instead of generic Chinese junk.

On the other hand, I have no problem with getting renam alternators from Autozone or Advance Auto with a lifetime warranty because they are just up the road from me and I don't take old vehicles on long trips where an alternator failure would be more of a hardship. Last 130A alternator was about $110 after a discount code.

Also consider how common your alternator is and how hard it is to replace. Last one I did only needed one socket size and 30 minutes, was a normally stocked part at auto parts stores so as long as it fails within an uber ride to an auto parts store, it is not a big deal to change it out. I should add that I keep receipts on my phone for Advance Auto purchases, but Autozone tracks it by phone # given at time of purchase.

Ultimately I feel like it's about the value of the vehicle. If you have a vehicle worth $4k or more, sure get the brand new OEM alternator. If you have an older, less valuable vehicle then it makes sense to economize on repairs as it does little good to pay an extra $200 for something that probably wouldn't fail before something else on the vehicle retires it to a junkyard anyway. Guess it also depends on how many miles you put on it, if it's a daily driver and you need it to get to work, there's value in keeping it as reliable as possible but remember that OEMs usually don't make alternators, buying same major brand that the OEM used will usually save over $100.

My experience with Advance's warranty is that it really isn't one, at least for starter motors. The product itself and the process are designed to make sure the product is not warrantied by the average customer. In general terms, even if you do sabotage the product to get the warranty, you still have to pay them time and money.

First, the item must fail the bench test. Perhaps for alternators, the failure modes are all observable and unescapable, but for starter failures, the one failure that gives warranty "the slip" is the failure of weakened windings. The device will pass the bench test but will not turn the crankshaft.

Me, being savvy enough, geeky enough, and having enough time on my hands, had to further "kill" the starter to bypass that first stumbling-block by cutting the wires to the brushes. That made a bench-observable failure. All of the brushes had to be cut. I first left one still attached, and thus the device STILL passed.

Not to mention, I had to hop around stores to "hide" the fact I've went to another store for a warranty attempt, sometimes 25 miles.

After passing through that, the process of obtaining the warranty part is a tedious process and it is not "free". A new purchase is entered into the system, you have to make payment, and then the old one is "stricken" as a warranty replacement. It takes time because the guy at the register has to spend 10-15 minutes talking to the manager or whoever to get info on how to even do the process.

Further complicating the matter was that since the original starter died, I had already buy a "fresh" reman from Advance a month prior to avoid being stranded.

So, now I had two functional remans. To get the "extra" returned, I had to open a Paypal case and then they would accept the return in-store instead of enforcing the "no electrical returns" policy they have.

The failure of the starter this year made me swear off both $90 Johnson Controls batteries (Toyota True-2s) and Advance remanufactured items. The battery is designed to break every three years by leaking and the reman brushes didn't look like they had much meat wasted while the windings already failed.

 

[Torn Mind]

Yeah -- beginning with your last remarks -- I don't think I ever had a vehicle that I intended to put up for sale, although I should've thought about the prospects for selling my '64 SS Impala . . . for upwards of $25,000. All the rest, my plan has been to keep them maintained until they've either been totaled or need an engine replacement that's too pricey. I might even consider such an option, but for this Trooper, it's just not in the cards. That GM engine is going to last another 100,000 miles.

Last year when I was searching for a new mechanic and repair shop to keep in the Rolodex, I discovered there are mechanics who make assumptions about what you want to do with your car for having it repaired. They think you want to sell it, knowing that the vehicle has a blue-book value less than $1,000. So they might treat you and the vehicle accordingly -- Mechanics from Hell!

To me, given my spreadsheet of maintenance and repair history, the car is worth the $30,000 or more that I'd have to spend for a new SUV in the same class. It's all about stocks and flows of money and expense. I can easily afford $1,000 a year in maintenance, and it's still a winning proposition. that's two months of new-car payments -- nothing to fret about. For the insurance I'm probably saving $1,200 annually.

But you are correct. Why buy the OEM unit for $600 if you can get a reman or aftermarket of higher Amp rating for $200? Even if it doesn't last as long as the OEM, it won't go south for a while at <= 3,000 miles per annum.

Just came back from an errand. I can hear that noise that others wouldn't notice. I'm going to replace this alternator, but I want some input -- from my mechanic or anyone else -- about outfits that remanufacture these things. I'm less inclined to do it myself: you have to "do it right the first time". That is, I'm less inclined to rebuild an alternator myself, but I might do the installation. I have a belt-tensioner measuring device. It couldn't be hard -- just a couple bolts and an electrical plug. Just inconvenient because my home garage doesn't have a hydraulic lift. OF course, the observation you made about cheap Chinese bearings has me concerned. Some of these reman units have "Made in USA" in their Ebay ads . . . .

I'd buy the new BBB INDUSTRIES N13521 from RockAuto or a new Duralast Gold 13521N. It's hard to screw up a Denso design.

 

[RLGL]

I have a hunch that moisture and non-use has a tendency to kill alternators for whatever reason

I was in the marine business, 95%of the alternators that were replaced was due to moisture if it was submerged. The rest was due to regulator failure.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I'd buy the new BBB INDUSTRIES N13521 from RockAuto or a new Duralast Gold 13521N. It's hard to screw up a Denso design.

I appreciate your input for the Rockauto offerings. I've ordered many parts from Rockauto. I might have sprung for the ACDELCO unit, and didn't know about these other brands. But they are all at most 75 amp alternators.

I did some searches. Two companies -- BNR and Quality Power -- don't have such promising reputations in online reviews. There seems to be some consensus (among SOME people at SOME web-sites) about MECHMAN Alternators. MECHMAN doesn't offer an Isuzu Trooper (part number 2911232160 (75 amp)) equivalent, but they eagerly tout a "custom-made" alternator. Isuzu isn't in their OEM catalog list, although they have many GM units.

I sent them an e-mail inquiry. The usefulness of the website for Quality Power was an amp-rating calculator, which says I should have at least a 100 amp alternator, even though my LED light replacements, LED fog-light addition and sound-system upgrade give me a break-even amperage draw against the Trooper's original equipment.

 

[Torn Mind]

My take on amperage is that if you don't have the equipment putting on the extra stress, you really don't benefit much from it.

If you want to make it your portable man cave then the extra capacity with some powerful speaker upgrades, amplifier, etc would be useful. But you would likely need to upgrade the wiring gauge for the connectors at the alternator as well if that is actually the case.

Really, the amp calcuator is very much like a PSU calculator for PCs. There's going to be overestimation built in to convince people to buy more amperage.

Assuming the windings do not die from stress, the limiting parts of an alternator's life are the brushes and the diode assembly.

I think the discussion on this forum might provide you with some insight. You might even want to ask on that forum, since they would have more practical experience regarding upgraded units, etc.

Alternator too small, what happens?

Just like the title says, what happens when you have a system that can pull many more amps than the alternator can produce? Does the system just produce less wattage than it could? Does it effect the equipment? I'd imagine its tough on the alternator but I'm more interested in what effect it...

www.diymobileaudio.com

 

[BonzaiDuck]

My take on amperage is that if you don't have the equipment putting on the extra stress, you really don't benefit much from it.

If you want to make it your portable man cave then the extra capacity with some powerful speaker upgrades, amplifier, etc would be useful. But you would likely need to upgrade the wiring gauge for the connectors at the alternator as well if that is actually the case.

Really, the amp calcuator is very much like a PSU calculator for PCs. There's going to be overestimation built in to convince people to buy more amperage.

Assuming the windings do not die from stress, the limiting parts of an alternator's life are the brushes and the diode assembly.

I think the discussion on this forum might provide you with some insight. You might even want to ask on that forum, since they would have more practical experience regarding upgraded units, etc.

Alternator too small, what happens?

Just like the title says, what happens when you have a system that can pull many more amps than the alternator can produce? Does the system just produce less wattage than it could? Does it effect the equipment? I'd imagine its tough on the alternator but I'm more interested in what effect it...

www.diymobileaudio.com

Thanks! You're a Prince, a Scholar and a Gentleman!

OK. I was listening to the cyclic clatter again today. It now becomes a choice between the OEM 75 A and aftermarket or reman 75 A. It just has to have good bearings.

 

[mindless1]

My take on amperage is that if you don't have the equipment putting on the extra stress, you really don't benefit much from it.

The benefit is in running at a lower % of total output, just about anything will last longer in that scenario due to thermal and mechanical stress vs design tolerance.

I've had no problem with Johnson Control batteries, usually get about 5-6 years out of them but all are for larger vehicles that have plenty of space for large capacity groups like 65 or 78.

I suspect your poor customer service at Advance Auto boils down to an inexperienced cashier, I don't recall any hoops to jump through besides having to provide the receipt, and in this case, you'd better make a digital copy because thermal receipts tend have their print disappear over time.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Well, gentlemen and gentle-persons . . .

I wasn't planning to do this so soon, but I have DIY Old-Car Noise Neurosis and Obsession. Maybe that thing just keeps on going. Maybe not. But I just put a new deep-cycle Yellow-Top battery under the bonnet after 5 years, 7 months with the Red-Top, and the new battery tester said "Replace" for the Red-Top. I want to get this resolved, soon, the right way, with the right parts choice, even for a few more bucks.

I have two customer information requests now sent to respective firms.

One missive was sent to MECHMAN, asking about their "custom-built" 150-amp option for around $450.

Here's the one I'm sending to OEMOnlineParts.com:

=========
I'm inquiring about your online inventory for a NEW (New) OEM 1995 ISUZU TROOPER LS -- 75 Amp Alternator. This is shown on your web-site as Alternator - Isuzu (2911232160). That's indeed the part number the Isuzu Part Depot shows. It's the right part number, and the right amperage rating.

I know about "Re-Man" and aftermarket alternators, at least -- from experience with some Honda vehicles. The aftermarket or OEM can go south in a year; maybe you can get 30,000 or 40,000 miles out of them. The OEM factory alternator is quiet as a mouse and may last 130,000 miles. I can get part # 2911232160 from a Missouri Isuzu parts depot, but not for this price. In fact, your item description on the web-site lists that price, and "500 and change" sounds a lot better than "600 and less change".

Comparing options between the OEM 75-amp, aftermarket and custom 150-amp, and all the Re-mans and Aftermarket units, this is "almost" a decent price, if not the "right" price, and it has the benefits of having a (REAL, OEM, BRAND-NEW) 75-amp Trooper alternator . It's really pulling me to loosen the strings on my pocketbook.

What's the warranty? DOES THE UNIT COME IN THE ORIGINAL ISUZU CARDBOARD BOX WITH ISUZU LABELS??? Is this an OEM unit that has never been used, never taken apart, never had any "re-manufacture" parts replacements like bearings?? Am I correct: You want $543.91 for this unit? What are the shipping costs? How soon can it be delivered by something like UPS Ground? I don't need to pay for overnight or express shipping, but how soon?

Please respond ASAP. I will most likely order, but you have to be straight with me. No unpleasant surprises.

Thank you for your attention and your alacritous response --

 

[Torn Mind]

The benefit is in running at a lower % of total output, just about anything will last longer in that scenario due to thermal and mechanical stress vs design tolerance.

I've had no problem with Johnson Control batteries, usually get about 5-6 years out of them but all are for larger vehicles that have plenty of space for large capacity groups like 65 or 78.

I suspect your poor customer service at Advance Auto boils down to an inexperienced cashier, I don't recall any hoops to jump through besides having to provide the receipt, and in this case, you'd better make a digital copy because thermal receipts tend have their print disappear over time.

The particular size I'm dealing with is 35 for batteries.
For the Toyota True-2, it was just a matter of looking through the old dealership receipts and seeing that every three years, in March, a new battery was obtained for the vehicle. Two battery purchases every three years, taking out the positive battery terminal constantly, was a dance I was tired of repeating. If it wasn't for the Chinese dumping loads of excess inventory of terminals on Ebay, I'd have to at least use up the $35 dealership coupon on a terminal instead of getting other stuff like free oil.

The Advance Auto warranty process has two separate ways of leaving the customer with a bitter taste. The first is the "objective" part, Your part is broke, but the tester they use to prove it says it's a-ok. Depending on the mood of the store, there's damn good chance you're out the door paying full price for a non-returnable starter so you are no longer stranded; people usually don't have a spare. But if you pass bench test stumbling-block, then the surprise is that this "warranty" is basically a matter of buying the new part, and then they refund you the old part from the now current new part pricing sans the maximum promo discount of 20%.

I ordered the starter online, so my records were preserved The reason this Carquest was installed in the Toyota was because of a sudden failure of the OEM unit 3 years prior.

The cashier was guided by the "higher-up" over the phone to process the warranty transaction. Now, I had a couple of other items and a unreturned core that they wiped out, but I still had to pay up the difference between the price then and the then-now of January 2020. No more 40% off coupon and an increase in price meant I had to cough up 20-30 bucks.

It's also was the process in stores 25 miles same miles apart. The first store did the bench test, but the it seems the cashier was willing to "bend" the rules. But I would have had to leave the old starter with them overnight because I went there near closing, naively assuming the warranty process would be the simple matter of exchanging the part.

That's how they roll Maryland, at least.

Hence, I will boycott Advance beyond minor consumables like small engine spark plugs. Corporate hardball has to be met with vigilance.

Their part rapidly failed(only three years, even accounting for some tough conditions due to terminal corrosion and battery weakening) and the warranty process was a process of "designed denial". Failures of starters due to windings is a failure, but not a failure that the warranty is supposed to cover based on the de facto terms, which is failing the bench test. If I were just Mr. joe Average regarding cars, I would have had to just buy a new starter full price from any retailer due to a unobtainable warranty.

I have no experience with Autozone, but anecdotes suggest they are the more hassle-free of the chain stores.

 

[Torn Mind]

Well, gentlemen and gentle-persons . . .

I wasn't planning to do this so soon, but I have DIY Old-Car Noise Neurosis and Obsession. Maybe that thing just keeps on going. Maybe not. But I just put a new deep-cycle Yellow-Top battery under the bonnet after 5 years, 7 months with the Red-Top, and the new battery tester said "Replace" for the Red-Top. I want to get this resolved, soon, the right way, with the right parts choice, even for a few more bucks.

Hmm, more important than the device saying replace is the hard measure of CCA and resistance. A battery above 550 is still viable, imo.

I'd focus on the brake lines first in case anything seems crusty and rusty.

 

[mindless1]

Autozone is definitely more hassle free, at least the one nearest me that I frequent. If I take anything in, there is no test (unless I ask

... asking about their "custom-built" 150-amp option for around $450.

There is no way I would pay $450 for an alternator for your vehicle considering the very large % of book value that represents, unless it was a full restore and you had an upgraded sub amp to power.

We differ on a primary factor. You suggest your vehicle is worth $30K due to new vehicle replacement cost when I don't agree with that in the slightest.

New vehicle has 250K+ mileage expectation ahead of it, new plastic, rubber, new tech, etc even if yours had zero rust. Yours, you can be doing everything right and a texting teenager can ram into you and you only get $1K insurance out of it, no way it is worth more than double that no matter how much you kept up with maintenance, UNLESS you take out special insurance to value it at more than normal book value, which of course costs more.

Besides, if you live in a climate where vehicles don't rust out then it is not even relevant what a new replacement would cost if you're okay with not having the latest greatest, rather a used replacement with far more expected lifespan remaining could cost under $10K, even under $4K if you spend the time looking for a cherry and are ready to jump on one when you find it, because dealers snatch those up fast, with this covid era pricing being the wildcard in that equation... on the one hand, used vehicle prices are crazy high right now but on the other hand, some people are struggling and desperate to liquidate some assets for money.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I was lucky, 80,000 miles and 16 years ago, to need a starter replacement in my Trooper when the local Isuzu dealership was still in business. I got an OEM starter. I expect it to last several more years at my current rate in rolling up the odometer.

Still, it's been a while. But with a new battery and the current (pun) state of operation for my reman alternator, I can go out to the car, open the door, insert the key while standing on the pavement, and start the car after it barely turns over once. So the starter is still tip-top.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Hmm, more important than the device saying replace is the hard measure of CCA and resistance. A battery above 550 is still viable, imo.

I'd focus on the brake lines first in case anything seems crusty and rusty.

The lines -- no -- I haven't done anything with them. I've replaced all the pads and small parts within the last two years. The front rotors and rear rotors and drums (both!) have been machined. Crusty -- I don't know. Rusty? This Trooper was bought in So-Cal, rented out of an Enterprise or Hertz for about 2 years, bought again by a San Bernardino dealership salesman who followed the prevailing myths and sold it to me in the year the Trooper was announced to be discontinued. Maybe he didn't have "inside information", but he was instantly aware of it and knew about it before I did. The local dealership didn't say anything -- they were servicing the Troopers until 2005, and then they folded or shape-shifted into selling another make and model line. It didn't make any difference in the matter of parts; it only meant something in an absence of Isuzu factory-trained mechanics who knew everything about maintaining it.

So -- nothing rusty . . .

As for the digital tester, I put into it all the right data -- I think 850 CCA. While the car still started, three weeks ago it was hesitating to turn over, when a couple months before that it would just start. The Red Top battery charge was run down to 20%, taking 12 hours to recharge to 100%. 5 and half years? The warranty was for four, and you can expect batteries that have been totally discharged three times to go south sooner. It was "time".

 

[BonzaiDuck]

RESOLUTION

Turns out that the Isuzu Parts Depot, sometimes showing an inventory of some parts for my 25-year-old Trooper, doesn't have any OEM 75-amp (Denso) alternators in stock, and they definitively answered that they don't have and never will have any in the future.

MECHMAN doesn't "make" alternators with my "bolt pattern".

So -- nothing left but REMAN offerings, including the BNR 150-amp unit for about $170.

I ran down to my master-mechanic and his repair shop this morning, carrying the BNR Ebay ad with me. I discover that "Senior" -- the father in the partnership -- had retired, so I plan to get him a Xmas gift on intelligence history because he's interested in military history. His son, David, has been in that partnership long enough. I paid him a few ducats for his lunch to listen to me.

The bearings are going bad on the existing REMAN unit in the car. I explained I didn't care about the expense for the part; I wanted a REMAN alternator that would last. The labor will be $120.

He'll have to temporarily remove the transmission cooling hoses he and his dad installed last year to access and remove the alternator. Good enough reason for me to pay someone else -- and especially someone else who knows about those hoses.

Especially, while David can investigate the BNR 150-amp unit available through BNR's Ebay ad, I leave it to him. Pick the best remanufactured unit -- 75-amp or higher -- that you can find, I told him.

He'll call in a couple days. We'll schedule the work after November 25. He'll get paid in late November or early December, and I'll pay my credit card in early January out of the 2021 household auto-repair budget.

DONE! It's gonna be PURRRR-FECK!

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Autozone is definitely more hassle free, at least the one nearest me that I frequent. If I take anything in, there is no test (unless I ask


There is no way I would pay $450 for an alternator for your vehicle considering the very large % of book value that represents, unless it was a full restore and you had an upgraded sub amp to power.

We differ on a primary factor. You suggest your vehicle is worth $30K due to new vehicle replacement cost when I don't agree with that in the slightest.

New vehicle has 250K+ mileage expectation ahead of it, new plastic, rubber, new tech, etc even if yours had zero rust. Yours, you can be doing everything right and a texting teenager can ram into you and you only get $1K insurance out of it, no way it is worth more than double that no matter how much you kept up with maintenance, UNLESS you take out special insurance to value it at more than normal book value, which of course costs more.

Besides, if you live in a climate where vehicles don't rust out then it is not even relevant what a new replacement would cost if you're okay with not having the latest greatest, rather a used replacement with far more expected lifespan remaining could cost under $10K, even under $4K if you spend the time looking for a cherry and are ready to jump on one when you find it, because dealers snatch those up fast, with this covid era pricing being the wildcard in that equation... on the one hand, used vehicle prices are crazy high right now but on the other hand, some people are struggling and desperate to liquidate some assets for money.

Looked closer at your post -- felt compelled to answer with more.

The vehicle isn't worth any $30,000 on the market. It has a use-value to me with repair expectations given the life-span of existing components and the fact that it runs well. IF I had to chuck it, then expect I'd spend $30,000 on a new vehicle. The new vehicle has greater expectation of being trouble-free or running -- as you say -- for a lot more miles. But if I only drive 3,000 miles per year, the value of the car to me is the simple fact that it runs well when I need to drive it. To replace it, well --- the $30,000.

To me, it's all about stocks and flows of money and the use-value. If the book value is $1,000 -- I could only get that for selling it -- and I needed a new alternator -- $450 or whatever -- that's $450 to keep me mobile for X more years without much expectation of spending any more than that in the next year and the year after that. But I'd spend that much in a new car's monthly payment.

Most people buy their cars with some expectation of a resale value; some cars hold a higher resale value or hold it longer. To me, a "good" car doesn't need to be a store of wealth. It just needs to run. New car ownership is a losing proposition as an asset, continually depreciating, needing a repair regimen eventually. I'd just as soon have the repairs done or do them myself, keep the car running, keep the $30,000 in the bank or pay half or less of new-car insurance month after month.

Eventually, of course, you have the "sunk-cost" problem -- a string of repairs or replacement over some number of years, which you could depreciate in the accounting sense or in the matter of use-life. And then, suddenly, you throw a rod in the engine or need to replace it with a remanufactured or new engine. That's $5,000 bucks.

And you have to ask yourself. I have a friend who has a 2000 F150 truck he's apparently fond of. That's 20 years old. But he did it. He replaced his engine for $5,000.

Anyway, suppose I follow your scenario, and find a used equivalent (it has to be an equivalent to what I have) -- for $10,000 or $15,000. Then, it's going to slowly be rebuilt, re-paired, renewed as this or that subsystem or component wears out. It's just that I might not know exactly -- beforehand -- what those unpleasant repair experiences might be. But I KNOW what's been done to the car I've driven for almost two decades.

 

[Torn Mind]

With the ever tightening standards for fleet fuel economy, the build quality of a new car will continue to get worse(unless it's a 4Runner).

Soon, engines running on 5 weight oil will be a thing. CVTs, DI-only, computers in the engine bay will be the only choice left, and the mass adoption of electric might finally occur.

Then some massive grid catastrophe happens and people start wishing for some gas vehicles. .