Remaining Airbus A380 freighter orders cancelled

K1052

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ILFC cancels A380F leaving UPS on its own
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05-Dec-2006 : THE International Lease Finance Corporation (ILFC) has cancelled its order for five A380 freighters yesterday. Instead of freighters, ILFC has ordered five more A380 passenger aircraft. But ILFC has deferred its total order for 10 A380 aircraft by three years.

Following FedEx?s recent cancellation, ILFC is the second launch customer to cancel its order for the A380 freighter. UPS is now the only remaining customer for the A380 freighter but UPS is also re-evaluating its order for 10 planes.

The cancellation enables Airbus to focus its resources on the production of the A380 passenger aircraft. But it is bad news for Airbus? large freighter program as airlines might increasingly opt for Boeing?s 747-8 freighter. That plane is currently also under development and sells well.

The A380 freighter program was announced by Airbus in January 2001. It expected to deliver the first freighter to FedEx in mid 2008. Following the initial delay, this delivery was pushed back to the first quarter of 2009. But Airbus had to postpone this summer by one more year because of wiring problems.

The A380 passenger program still does not run without problems. Qatar Airways today announced it will seek compensation from Airbus concerning delivery delays of its two A380 aircraft. It will not confirm outstanding options over two more A380s until its demands are met. Qatar expects its first A380 in 2010

http://www.aircargonews.net/article.asp?art_id=1324

UPS has publically stated that they are reconsidering their A380 order. In the light of this change and FedEx dropping the A380 for readily available Boeing products I doubt UPS will stick. I see more 777 and 747 freighter orders for Boeing in the near future.


Airbus Losing Remaining A380 Cargo Order
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By LAURENCE FROST and HARRY WEBER
AP Business Writers

March 2, 2007, 11:55 AM CST

PARIS -- The Airbus superjumbo program suffered a major new setback Friday as UPS Inc. said it would cancel its order for 10 A380s, leaving the aircraft maker with an empty order book for the cargo version of its much-delayed flagship.

The move comes just a week after UPS, the world's largest shipping carrier, and Airbus announced a revised agreement that gave either party the right to terminate the order.

In a statement, Atlanta-based UPS said it decided to cancel after it learned Airbus was diverting employees from the freighter program to work on its passenger plane program.

UPS said the final cancellation decision will be formally presented to Airbus on the first date specified under last week's agreement.

"We lost confidence in their ability to meet those schedules," UPS spokesman Mark Giuffre said of the A380F agreement with Airbus.

The announcement by UPS comes four months after rival FedEx Corp. also scrapped its 10-plane order, and leaves Airbus with no orders for the superjumbo freighter -- dealing a new blow to its A380 program, whose two-year delay has 5 billion euros ($6.6 billion) off profit forecasts for 2006-2010.

"We respect the client's decision," Airbus spokeswoman Barbara Kracht said in response to the cancellation. "UPS is and remains a valuable and strong customer and business partner for Airbus."

The A380 program as a whole "is progressing well and in line with the new timetable, with the first delivery to the first customer in October 2007," she said, referring to launch customer Singapore Airlines -- set to become the first carrier to take paying passengers in the double-decker plane.

UPS declined to comment on whether the company was likely to order other aircraft from Airbus or turn to Chicago-based Boeing Co. to fill the gap left by the cancellations. "We're looking at our next steps," Giuffre said.

Chris Lozier, an analyst for Chicago-based Morningstar, said the cancellation is a crippling blow for the entire Airbus cargo program and a boon for Boeing.

"It almost spells the demise for that cargo business, because the alternative to the 380 is the (Boeing) 747," he said. "You would expect UPS to be at the negotiating table with Boeing right now, if not weeks ago, working out details for the 747."

Boeing declined to say whether it was in talks for the UPS contract.

"While UPS is a longstanding and valued customer of ours, we do not and cannot comment on any discussions we might be having with customers," said Jim Proulx, a spokesman for Boeing's commercial airplane division in Seattle.

UPS, also known as United Parcel Service, had ordered its first 10 A380 aircraft in January 2005 for use on U.S.-Asia routes. The deal included an option to buy 10 more planes.

Shares of Airbus parent European Aeronautic Defence and Space Co. had already been tumbling on the freighter program freeze, announced late Thursday. The stock ended the day down 4 percent at 23.63 euros ($31.23) in Paris trading.

The A380 setback came as French unions called for a one-day strike next Tuesday to protest 10,000 planned job cuts and the sale or closure of six Airbus plants under the "Power8" restructuring plan unveiled by Chief Executive Louis Gallois Wednesday.

German Airbus workers may join the strike, union officials said, along with staff at other EADS facilities in both countries.

Shares of UPS fell 57 cents to $69.55 in afternoon trading on the New York Stock Exchange, where Boeing shares rose 21 cents to $88.06.
 

halik

Lifer
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Oh airbus, you were made and fvcked it all up. This is what happens when politics screwes it's way into business....
 

Genx87

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That is pretty interesting. I would think in the freighter business this thing could be very profitable even if late.

 

K1052

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Originally posted by: Genx87
That is pretty interesting. I would think in the freighter business this thing could be very profitable even if late.

Their freighter customers may come back at some later point eventually, but if they are looking to expand serivce in the realtively near future Boeing's offerings are more attractive right now. Plus they know Boeing can build them. The 777 line has been operating for a while now and the've been building the 747 for 35+ years upgrading the technology along the way. The 747-8F has 50 orders compared to the A380F now at 10 (with those in doubt).

 

EagleKeeper

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Anybody catch the end of the article where Qatar is applying pressure for concessions on two of their 380s?
 

Finality

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UPS is not the sole customer Emirates has two Freighters on order and *maybe* SA as well.
 

tvarad

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"UPS is not the sole customer Emirates has two Freighters on order and *maybe* SA as well."

Ain't enough to launch the freighter version, especially now since the program is bleeding red so badly and there isn't enough money to develop it.

Today's news that Lufthansa is all set to order the 747-8 passenger version is yet another sword cut for the A380 program. Couldn't have happened to a nicer set of people ;).
 

K1052

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Aug 21, 2003
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Originally posted by: Finality
UPS is not the sole customer Emirates has two Freighters on order and *maybe* SA as well.

Emirates cancelled their order for the two A380Fs they wanted. UPS currently the only company with orders in.
 

freegeeks

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May 7, 2001
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I still think that the A380 is going to be a success, both the freighter and passenger version.
Fedex pilots in Toulouse flew the beast and had nothing but positive feedback. The only reason that Fedex cancelled their orders was because of the delays not because of the A380F product. The B747 is not an ideal freigher despite its size, the major drawback is the volume of the cargo bay. Freight companies run out of usable space before they reach the weight restriction, the A380F does not have this problem with its full 2 deck configuration. Whatever upgrades Boeing plans for the 747 they can never compete with the volume available in the A380F
 

K1052

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Originally posted by: freegeeks
I still think that the A380 is going to be a success, both the freighter and passenger version.
Fedex pilots in Toulouse flew the beast and had nothing but positive feedback. The only reason that Fedex cancelled their orders was because of the delays not because of the A380F product. The B747 is not an ideal freigher despite its size, the major drawback is the volume of the cargo bay. Freight companies run out of usable space before they reach the weight restriction, the A380F does not have this problem with its full 2 deck configuration. Whatever upgrades Boeing plans for the 747 they can never compete with the volume available in the A380F

The new 747-8 is larger than its predecessors and has more pallet space. Plus at this rate no A380Fs may be produced for quite some time. The 777F (Which FedEx bought instead) is also an attractive option for all the reasons it?s passenger model is killing Airbus in sales: It?s huge, carries a ton of fuel, and has two engines (lower fuel costs).

The A380 may be a fine product when built, but as they say: Timing is everything. Given the order sheets for the A380F vs. the 747-8F I think Airbus has reason to be a little concerned. They may recover some of the freighter market share but it is going to take longer than expected, further pushing back break even.
 

freegeeks

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May 7, 2001
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Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: freegeeks
I still think that the A380 is going to be a success, both the freighter and passenger version.
Fedex pilots in Toulouse flew the beast and had nothing but positive feedback. The only reason that Fedex cancelled their orders was because of the delays not because of the A380F product. The B747 is not an ideal freigher despite its size, the major drawback is the volume of the cargo bay. Freight companies run out of usable space before they reach the weight restriction, the A380F does not have this problem with its full 2 deck configuration. Whatever upgrades Boeing plans for the 747 they can never compete with the volume available in the A380F

The new 747-8 is larger than its predecessors and has more pallet space. Plus at this rate no A380Fs may be produced for quite some time. The 777F (Which FedEx bought instead) is also an attractive option for all the reasons it?s passenger model is killing Airbus in sales: It?s huge, carries a ton of fuel, and has two engines (lower fuel costs).

The A380 may be a fine product when built, but as they say: Timing is everything. Given the order sheets for the A380F vs. the 747-8F I think Airbus has reason to be a little concerned. They may recover some of the freighter market share but it is going to take longer than expected, further pushing back break even.

There is a reason why Fedex ordered the 777F instead of the 747-800F. You lose on average 14% cargo space if you don't use special pallets in the 747F. There is one thing the bean counters hate and it's non standard stuff. They want to use the same standard pallets across the whole fleet. The 777F is more a replacement order for the ageing DC10 fleet. My guess is that Fedex will sit on the fence for a while and order the A380F when the sky is brighter for the A380 program.

Time will tell
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
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Originally posted by: freegeeks
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: freegeeks
I still think that the A380 is going to be a success, both the freighter and passenger version.
Fedex pilots in Toulouse flew the beast and had nothing but positive feedback. The only reason that Fedex cancelled their orders was because of the delays not because of the A380F product. The B747 is not an ideal freigher despite its size, the major drawback is the volume of the cargo bay. Freight companies run out of usable space before they reach the weight restriction, the A380F does not have this problem with its full 2 deck configuration. Whatever upgrades Boeing plans for the 747 they can never compete with the volume available in the A380F

The new 747-8 is larger than its predecessors and has more pallet space. Plus at this rate no A380Fs may be produced for quite some time. The 777F (Which FedEx bought instead) is also an attractive option for all the reasons it?s passenger model is killing Airbus in sales: It?s huge, carries a ton of fuel, and has two engines (lower fuel costs).

The A380 may be a fine product when built, but as they say: Timing is everything. Given the order sheets for the A380F vs. the 747-8F I think Airbus has reason to be a little concerned. They may recover some of the freighter market share but it is going to take longer than expected, further pushing back break even.

There is a reason why Fedex ordered the 777F instead of the 747-800F. You lose on average 14% cargo space if you don't use special pallets in the 747F. There is one thing the bean counters hate and it's non standard stuff. They want to use the same standard pallets across the whole fleet. The 777F is more a replacement order for the ageing DC10 fleet. My guess is that Fedex will sit on the fence for a while and order the A380F when the sky is brighter for the A380 program.

Time will tell


interesting,
are you in the aero industry?
 

freegeeks

Diamond Member
May 7, 2001
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Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: freegeeks
Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: freegeeks
I still think that the A380 is going to be a success, both the freighter and passenger version.
Fedex pilots in Toulouse flew the beast and had nothing but positive feedback. The only reason that Fedex cancelled their orders was because of the delays not because of the A380F product. The B747 is not an ideal freigher despite its size, the major drawback is the volume of the cargo bay. Freight companies run out of usable space before they reach the weight restriction, the A380F does not have this problem with its full 2 deck configuration. Whatever upgrades Boeing plans for the 747 they can never compete with the volume available in the A380F

The new 747-8 is larger than its predecessors and has more pallet space. Plus at this rate no A380Fs may be produced for quite some time. The 777F (Which FedEx bought instead) is also an attractive option for all the reasons it?s passenger model is killing Airbus in sales: It?s huge, carries a ton of fuel, and has two engines (lower fuel costs).

The A380 may be a fine product when built, but as they say: Timing is everything. Given the order sheets for the A380F vs. the 747-8F I think Airbus has reason to be a little concerned. They may recover some of the freighter market share but it is going to take longer than expected, further pushing back break even.

There is a reason why Fedex ordered the 777F instead of the 747-800F. You lose on average 14% cargo space if you don't use special pallets in the 747F. There is one thing the bean counters hate and it's non standard stuff. They want to use the same standard pallets across the whole fleet. The 777F is more a replacement order for the ageing DC10 fleet. My guess is that Fedex will sit on the fence for a while and order the A380F when the sky is brighter for the A380 program.

Time will tell


interesting,
are you in the aero industry?


not yet :p
 

dmw16

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Nov 12, 2000
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Originally posted by: halik
Oh airbus, you were made and fvcked it all up. This is what happens when politics screwes it's way into business....

What are you talking about. The delays have nothing to do with politics. Airbus had issues with the digital pre-assembly definition and as a result they ordered long-lead wire harnesses that where sized incorrectly.
 

freegeeks

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May 7, 2001
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Originally posted by: tvarad
dmw16:

"What are you talking about. The delays have nothing to do with politics. Airbus had issues with the digital pre-assembly definition and as a result they ordered long-lead wire harnesses that where sized incorrectly."

The Airbus saga: Hubris and haste snarled the A380

if by "politics" you mean bad management then you are right. I don't think that Merkel of Chiraq are having discussions about which computer program to use in Toulouse or Hamburg
 

Finality

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Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: dmw16
Originally posted by: halik
Oh airbus, you were made and fvcked it all up. This is what happens when politics screwes it's way into business....

What are you talking about. The delays have nothing to do with politics. Airbus had issues with the digital pre-assembly definition and as a result they ordered long-lead wire harnesses that where sized incorrectly.

I wouldn't agree with that statement. For one thing the design teams are split up which they really shouldn't be. The factory location itself is a total nightmare. They should be near a major logistics hub not some village because the politicians wanted it there.

I can easily imagine due to the location Airbus looses at least $1 Million in extra costs.
 

tvarad

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freegeeks,
"if by "politics" you mean bad management then you are right. I don't think that Merkel of Chiraq are having discussions about which computer program to use in Toulouse or Hamburg"

Some of Airbus management decisions are based on the politics of farming out the work to it's constituent partners, the French, Germans, British etc..
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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In the last thread about this I posted a link that showed politics were involved. Somebody got the boot because they had the audacity to suggest not using German labor for certain parts because of cost and efficiency.
 

freegeeks

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May 7, 2001
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I'm sure that some politics is involved but this is not the main reason for the A380 program problems. Big ego managers and the fact that Airbus has been such a succes the last 20 years is the main reason. They became fat and cocky because of the huge success of the A319, A320 and A340 program. They were convinced that they could do the same with the A380
 

tvarad

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Jun 25, 2001
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IMHO, the A380 was designed and put into production to deny the 747 it's monopoly and the fat profits that Boeing made from it. Never mind that there is barely a business case in the jumbo space for even one plane, let alone two (as the hub and spoke model is steadily being replaced by a point to point model). And it looks more and more like the A380 will never make a profit.

And the outcome of Boeing's bet on the 787 looks more and more like it has won the powerball lottery. With Airbus commiting $13B for the A350XWB my guess is that Boeing will go for the jugular within a couple of years with a replacement for the 737 which will put a huge dent in A320 sales, Airbus's cash cow. The airplane business has sure become very interesting.