Originally posted by: LunarRay
If one believes in God one must also believe in the devil. The evil is the devil's work and the devil's religion has as its dogma to undue good and cause evil.
No offense, but I call b.s. on both accounts. There absolutely does not have to be a devil if there is a God, and I think it's f'ing ridiculous to blame everything bad on the devil and credit God for everything good. Maybe, just maybe, some things just... happen.
In fact, to take this a little farther, while I am agnostic on whether or not there's a God, if there is, I'm 100% certain there's no hell. Why? Because at their most basic levels, our decisions are based on brain chemistry and life experiences. Your brain chemistry makes you predisposed to do things and your life experiences shape those predispositions into actions or inactions. If there is a God, then he is the one that gives you brain chemistry and he is the one that puts you in the situation you're in. How can he punish you if that chemistry and those circumstances turn you into a mass murderer? And if you don't believe that brain chemistry is enough and start throwing the term "free will" around, then first ask someone with a depressed child (say, 6 - 13) what happened when they put their child on medication. Chemicals dictate our feelings and our decisions then, why would you believe that they wouldn't any other time.
If you believe there is a God then it is reasonable to believe he has no need to lie. He said there was a devil and I believe him. Man was created by God in his likeness. He said so and I believe him. But that was Adam not Eve nor the kids. Evolution and all the affects of all the myriad things that can affect developing life forms (fetus) result in the illnes and death we see. Had Adam not did whaterver that got him ousted from Eden folks would have lived a very long time as many in that age did.
However, it's also reasonable to believe that God had nothing to do with the creation of the bible. In fact, most religious people base their religion on the bible, when it has absolutely no guarantee that it was written by God. I got into an argument about this subject this weekend, and a friend told me, "But in the bible it is specifically written that God inspired its writing." So what? I could write a book tomorrow and write in it that God inspired me to write it. I could even take a bunch of speed and write it quickly and say that I was empowered by God to write it quickly. There is no proof that the bible was inspired by God just like there is no proof that anything the bible says happened actually happened. Except, of course, that there was a man around 33 A.D. that was apparently claiming to be a messiah. That's it.
More importantly, if there is a God, I don't think he'd lie, but I do think that he wouldn't care one way or another whether or not I believed in him. He'd judge how I lived my life to determine if I went to heaven or not.
Originally posted by: LunarRay
You can't consider "if there were no religions anywhere". No Deity of any kind is an impossibility. Human kind are forced to believe in a higher power, generally. Atheists just are an anomaly.
While I will grant you that atheists are an anomaly, in principle, there definitely IS a possibility that there isn't a deity. How could there not be? It's this simple: have you TRULY spoken to a deity (and don't give me the crap about how you go to church and talk to him because that isn't what I'm talking about). I can't see, hear or touch God, and there is no proof of him outside a novel scribbled on some scrolls and some stories about a guy that lived 2000 years ago that I wasn't there to witness. How do I know that the stories in there aren't just exagerations like many in the Old Testament. The very fact that there is debate about the existence PROVES that there might not be a God. I challenge you to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is a God.
I don't go to church. I deal directly with my saviour. To
o much shenanighans for me in the church/religion arena. I also went to Catholic Academy so I naturally know everything
. You may believe there is no God but, how can I accept that or convince you there is if you believe otherwise. Have I spoken with Jesus
? Often! What did he say to me, you ask
? I don't know. I just ask for one thing. The ability to be the best me I can be and to forgive my sins and accept me into his Kingdom.. that don't hardly require too much of an answer.
So, like I said, if you can't prove to me there is a God, then
CLEARLY there might not be one. If there definitely was one, you would be able to prove it to me and everyone else. Do you see what I'm saying? If you KNOW that there is a God, then you have got to be able to prove it to me. If you cannot prove it to me, then you HAVE to accept the possibility that there might not be a God. Otherwise, you're just kidding yourself.
And I don't want to hear the word faith because faith is the lie that keeps on lying.
- "Why do you believe in God?"
- "The bible says it contains the true story of God and says that it was written by men inspired by God to write it."
- "How do you know the bible is real and not just an incredibly popular work of fiction?"
- "I have faith."
- "Faith based on what? The bible?"
- "Yes."
- "So if I read any other book that claimed to contain the 'true' story of who God was and what he wanted and it said that it was inspired by God, I would be in no way wrong if I believed it on its own word, right?"
- "No, that book isn't the bible."
- "But it says that the bible isn't true. How does the bible have more validity than this book? It claims to have true stories about Jesus just like the bible."
- "I have faith that the bible is right and your book isn't."
- "Why can't I say the same thing?"
Do you see how faith is just another way of saying, "I believe what I believe because I believe it"?
In ancient times, they didn't understand fire so they made a god for it. They didn't understand what made wind blow, so they made a god for it. Everything they didn't understand, they made a god for. As we started to understand these things, the idea of there being a god behind them became preposterous. Therefore, why is it preposterous to think that maybe there isn't a God at all?
He was here about 2000 years ago in person. I would only add in a hope you'd consider what you may be rejecting. Eternity is a very long time.. infinte actually. Forever! Would you give up forever today in favor of a few years of 'I don't buy it'. I hope you'd look at God from the other side and work to dispell his existence rather than proove it.
I don't understand why taking the easy way out is the right way to do things. Your claim is that all I have to do is just believe there's a God and I go to heaven, right? (Assuming that the rest of my life is in line; ie. I don't kill anyone, etc.) I struggle every day with whether or not there's a God, and I always come up with the same answer: no proof. I
could just give in and believe that there's a God, but I'll tell you now that besides the fact that I'll regret being sent to hell (which I don't believe in either), I won't regret the fact that I didn't just decide that because we found some scrolls in a cave that claim to be the be-all-end-all guide on how to live, I struggled to do what
I believed was right.
My favorite quote on this subject:
You and I are both atheists. When you realize why you reject all of the other possible gods out there, you'll realize why I reject yours.
To this I say. Nope... you reject yours!..
*sigh* ... Why didn't I see this coming?