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monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,445
0
0
like abortion yeah?
I'm pro abortion, I've got no problem with a woman willing to get one as long as she's informed of the risks.
If you meant other conservatives, my only guess would be that they see a major difference between drinking raw milk and aborting a fetus.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,530
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I gave a flippant answer earlier, but there's just not much of a point if you feel that the FDA is perfectly justified in persecuting people that think drinking raw milk is a good thing. To me it always comes down to people knowing what they want and be willing to take the informed risk. To you it comes down to the government does what it thinks best whether the citizen wants it or not.
It's just a different philosophy that basically separates those on the left and those on the right.
I know it may be difficult for you to believe, but laws are passed all the time that limit your freedom to do things that may harm yourself and others. It's what government is for, and through votes and referendum, Americans eventually make the correct decision. I know you truly believe this is a "left-right" issue, but over time it simply becomes the American norm. The decision the FDA made to prevent unpasteurized milk from being disseminated in large quantities is very reasonable and does more good (prevents misinformation and injury to potential fetuses) than harm (limiting your freedom to, lol, produce that kind of milk).
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,445
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Yeah, the Amish farmer was going to flood the country with evil unpasteurized milk. I'm sure the potential harm to a potential fetus is why the FDA has banned alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea, cats, hot tubs, some cleaning agents and many over the counter drugs. It would be much too hard to require a warning cap or label on a bottle of raw milk. lol
 
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BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,587
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I know it may be difficult for you to believe, but laws are passed all the time that limit your freedom to do things that may harm yourself and others. It's what government is for, and through votes and referendum, Americans eventually make the correct decision. I know you truly believe this is a "left-right" issue, but over time it simply becomes the American norm. The decision the FDA made to prevent unpasteurized milk from being disseminated in large quantities is very reasonable and does more good (prevents misinformation and injury to potential fetuses) than harm (limiting your freedom to, lol, produce that kind of milk).
And that's why I will never support the left no matter how bad the right gets. Governments duty is not to protect people from themselves.
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
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And that's why I will never support the left no matter how bad the right gets. Governments duty is not to protect people from themselves.
This x1000. What First said is incredibly ignorant but typical of liberals who think the gubment is there to protect the people by limiting their rights and/or providing everything for them.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,445
0
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This x1000. What First said is incredibly ignorant but typical of liberals who think the gubment is there to protect the people by limiting their rights and/or providing everything for them.
I found it far more arrogant than ignorant. He supports the FDA because he doesn't want their human cattle to get out of line. The whole episode was because the citizens had the gall to defy the FDA.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,402
3,939
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And that's why I will never support the left no matter how bad the right gets. Governments duty is not to protect people from themselves.
What if you want to put yourself in a position to get a infection that could lead to the infection of others around you and it could spread thru the country?

Do you think that you have the right to do that?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,083
490
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What if you want to put yourself in a position to get a infection that could lead to the infection of others around you and it could spread thru the country?

Do you think that you have the right to do that?
Infected with what?
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,402
3,939
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Infected with what?
Whatever. I'm just asking. If you think you have the right to do to yourself whatever you want, including the risk of infectious disease, does that right extend to getting a infectious disease you could then spread thru the populace?
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,587
9
81
What if you want to put yourself in a position to get a infection that could lead to the infection of others around you and it could spread thru the country?

Do you think that you have the right to do that?
Then that's directly affecting others, isn't it?

If I want to infect myself with a disease and waste away in the middle of nowhere, it's stupid but that's my right. Infecting others is not my right.

What's so hard to understand?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,083
490
126
Whatever. I'm just asking. If you think you have the right to do to yourself whatever you want, including the risk of infectious disease, does that right extend to getting a infectious disease you could then spread thru the populace?
I have a right to consume what I want, when I want it. The ramifications of that are really irrelevant imo. You can get sick from anything you eat, drink, or breath. You propose we ban everything in the goal of making the world 100% safe from itself?

These people buying milk from a farmer knew what they were buying. It wasnt mislabeled or sold under fradulent terms. So why do you care if they drink unpastuerized milk?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,083
490
126
lol troll. Do you even realize unpasteurized milk can be harmful to pregnant women and carries with it all sorts of potential negative side effects? You fake conservatives are funny.
So does drinking alcohol. You want to ban that as well?
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,060
436
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I'm pretty sure those 10 coal power plants in Ohio that are slated to be shut down due to new EPA regulations will result in a lost job or two.

Also, correlation does not imply causation. There are so many issues with large social studies involving health and environmental effects. I can, without an ounce of doubt, 100% guarantee you that any study which makes such claims are either being mischaracterized for political purposes or are outright lying.
They aren't new regulations. They have been trying to pass them for 20 years.

They were in fact passed under Bush in 2005, but courts struck them down. They were retooled to meet constitutional standards and reissued.

The power companies have known for 20 years this day was coming. Most companies took a proactive approach. Then there are those few that decided to not do anything and are now going to either bilk customers or shut down.
 
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tydas

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2000
1,284
0
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So does drinking alcohol. You want to ban that as well?
Well, extreme members of your GOP would love to get rid of the devils brew...the treament of foodstuffs is all basic science..whats your issue exactly with milk????
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,402
3,939
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I have a right to consume what I want, when I want it. The ramifications of that are really irrelevant imo. You can get sick from anything you eat, drink, or breath. You propose we ban everything in the goal of making the world 100% safe from itself?

These people buying milk from a farmer knew what they were buying. It wasnt mislabeled or sold under fradulent terms. So why do you care if they drink unpastuerized milk?
I dont think you answered my question.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,402
3,939
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and to pound the point home

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-57363242/e-coli-found-in-raw-milk-dairys-calf-area/

Scientists and medical professionals in this country are the best in the world. I feel absolutely confident letting them do their work. If this means there are limits to raw milk or other food stuffs then so be it.

None of us here have the professional expertise (maybe matt does) to say that this regulation is bad. I think its dangerous to play politics with issues like this because of the risks involved.

My biggest problem with conservative think in this area is the total lack of real information they use to base their decisions. The decision is based on ideology and not real science. That is dangerous.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,530
271
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And that's why I will never support the left no matter how bad the right gets. Governments duty is not to protect people from themselves.
Part of their mandate has become that as determined by popular vote. Love it or not, a lot of people vote for good gov't and that includes gov't keeping you from harming yourself. I want the freedom to make bad decisions, of course, but when it comes to life-and-death it requires a little more oversight.

Yeah, the Amish farmer was going to flood the country with evil unpasteurized milk.
Nope, but he may have unintentionally disseminated a product that could hurt uninformed pregnant mothers.

I'm sure the potential harm to a potential fetus is why the FDA has banned alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea, cats, hot tubs, some cleaning agents and many over the counter drugs. It would be much too hard to require a warning cap or label on a bottle of raw milk. lol
Read the story dolt. The producer isn't doing any of that. lol.

So does drinking alcohol. You want to ban that as well?
Some things are practical to ban. Alcohol is not. Practicality plays a role.
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
0
and to pound the point home

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-57363242/e-coli-found-in-raw-milk-dairys-calf-area/

Scientists and medical professionals in this country are the best in the world. I feel absolutely confident letting them do their work. If this means there are limits to raw milk or other food stuffs then so be it.

None of us here have the professional expertise (maybe matt does) to say that this regulation is bad. I think its dangerous to play politics with issues like this because of the risks involved.

My biggest problem with conservative think in this area is the total lack of real information they use to base their decisions. The decision is based on ideology and not real science. That is dangerous.
Again another reason why I would never side with the left on anything. Ignorance is rampant with your types. Blind faith in the intelligence of the science community yet no faith in that of your fellow citizen.
 

tydas

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2000
1,284
0
76
Again another reason why I would never side with the left on anything. Ignorance is rampant with your types. Blind faith in the intelligence of the science community yet no faith in that of your fellow citizen.
Biff, you obviously cannot be reasoned with, blind faith in science? how about hard data and real results...that is science...
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,402
3,939
126
Again another reason why I would never side with the left on anything. Ignorance is rampant with your types. Blind faith in the intelligence of the science community yet no faith in that of your fellow citizen.
look how dumb you are
 

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