Regarding Syria...

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: mboy

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech

I think the US should use the momentum that the Irak war has brought to try to produce a peaceful solution that involves the entire region on a basis of the Saudi peaceplan - normal relations with Israel in exchange for the occupied territories would bring lasting peace and democratic change to the region...

But, peace has been the approach for how many years now? Clearly, peace has not worked. There are too many differences of opinions (and variations of stubborn people) to make peace in the Middle East work.

I think you are wrong, i do think that there is a chance for peace in the middle east, but i also think that the nations need to be forced to peace by a very strong middleman, that middleman exists and it is the US, the US can force Israel and the arab nations to sign the Saudi plan...

Israel would have to give up the occupied territories but would have lasting peace in exchange, sounds like a good deal to me...

May i ask you what your proposed solution is if you think that peace is not an option?

YEah right, the Arabs who want to push isreal into the Ocean are just going to wake up the next day and say, yeah, we will live in peace now. What dream world do u live in?

*sigh* no you are right, those dirty arabs, kill them all, that is the only solution... what did i think, that there could be a peaceful solution, nah, gung ho kill 'em all is where it's at... now i'm out of this forum... *sigh*

 

[mboy]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: jam3
Syria has used the golan heights to bomb farms for pete's sake. The Heights is a PERFECT geographic location for Syria to launch artillery virtually anywhere in israel it pleases. It is also very very tough to assualt.

I doubt the Israeli's will ever give the hieghts back to Syria. Its patently ridiculous to think they would anyways. The Syrians have deliberatly attacked israel 4 times to drive them into the sea. And at times when there isn't an overt war going on the launch artillery at civilians and support terrorist organizations.

People who defend this type of behavior absolutly astound me. Syira, and for that matter the rest of the arab world's, blatant anti-semitism is rooted in two causes. 1) Israel was created by the colonial oppressors, the british 2) The Nazi's used this anger and focused it towards israel prior to and during ww2. Research it yourself. The nazi propaganda machine was well alive in the middle east. Also look at the millions of jews who lived across the arab world prior to the 1900's.

We are fighting brainwashed terrorists and goverments that support them and somehow people think were dealing with rational people and/or that the U.S. somehow is just as "evil". It's truly unfrickin believeable.


My teacher is history and not the general media or or some talk show quack. Read some books people. Take out a topographic map and look at the areas in question. Most of the land israel is being asked to capitulate would almost negate the 1-3 minute warnings that they now have against countries that have done NOTHING but invade and terrorize them.

Ehhh... no... i will not spend time disputing this post... your history teacher needs a proper education...

Actualy, u need to wake up. Um, Isreal took that land when THEY WERE ABOUT TO BE ATTACKED BY A BUNCH OF COUNTRIES.
They basically kicked the crap out of all of them. WHy on earth should they give it back. And lest everyone forget what the palestinians really are, DISPLACED JORDANIANS. Guess who kicked them out, uh right, ARABS, namely King Hussein of JOrdan becasue he thought they would one day rise up against his regime. It's funny, all the ARABS use the Palestinian cause as a proxy fight agaisnt Isreal, yet the Palestinians are treated LIKE DIRT in every other ARAB/Mideast country.
Give all that land back, u are crazy.
I do however, believe that they should dismantle a large # of settlements and stop trying to expand them, but to go back to indefensible pre 1967 borders, your NUTZ.

Let me tell u, all those ARAB (middle east since some are not arab) countries are absolutely CRAPPING in their pants right now after we rolled thru arguably the toughest country (aside from Isreal as they without a doubt in the top 5 military powers in the world) iin the middle east n 3 weeks. Syria is crapping, The Saudi's are crapping, ALL OF them. No one thought we would be able to do what we just did in so short a time and with so few casualties.
Why do u think North Korea all the sudden wants multilateral talks now. THAT guy over there must be filling up his toilet bowl several times a day now!

That being said, I HIGHLY doubt we will be attacking Syria any time soon. I bet if they dont turn over any Iraqi officials that may be there, the specials ops guys go in and do some quick snatches! They just lost over a billion a year in illegal oil revenue and will most likely get sancioned and cut off from US funds for a while. That should be enough for the eye Dr. running the show over there.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: mboy

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: jam3
Syria has used the golan heights to bomb farms for pete's sake. The Heights is a PERFECT geographic location for Syria to launch artillery virtually anywhere in israel it pleases. It is also very very tough to assualt.

I doubt the Israeli's will ever give the hieghts back to Syria. Its patently ridiculous to think they would anyways. The Syrians have deliberatly attacked israel 4 times to drive them into the sea. And at times when there isn't an overt war going on the launch artillery at civilians and support terrorist organizations.

People who defend this type of behavior absolutly astound me. Syira, and for that matter the rest of the arab world's, blatant anti-semitism is rooted in two causes. 1) Israel was created by the colonial oppressors, the british 2) The Nazi's used this anger and focused it towards israel prior to and during ww2. Research it yourself. The nazi propaganda machine was well alive in the middle east. Also look at the millions of jews who lived across the arab world prior to the 1900's.

We are fighting brainwashed terrorists and goverments that support them and somehow people think were dealing with rational people and/or that the U.S. somehow is just as "evil". It's truly unfrickin believeable.


My teacher is history and not the general media or or some talk show quack. Read some books people. Take out a topographic map and look at the areas in question. Most of the land israel is being asked to capitulate would almost negate the 1-3 minute warnings that they now have against countries that have done NOTHING but invade and terrorize them.

Ehhh... no... i will not spend time disputing this post... your history teacher needs a proper education...

Actualy, u need to wake up. Um, Isreal took that land when THEY WERE ABOUT TO BE ATTACKED BY A BUNCH OF COUNTRIES.
They basically kicked the crap out of all of them. WHy on earth should they give it back. And lest everyone forget what the palestinians really are, DISPLACED JORDANIANS. Guess who kicked them out, uh right, ARABS, namely King Hussein of JOrdan becasue he thought they would one day rise up against his regime. It's funny, all the ARABS use the Palestinian cause as a proxy fight agaisnt Isreal, yet the Palestinians are treated LIKE DIRT in every other ARAB/Mideast country.
Give all that land back, u are crazy.
I do however, believe that they should dismantle a large # of settlements and stop trying to expand them, but to go back to indefensible pre 1967 borders, your NUTZ.

Let me tell u, all those ARAB (middle east since some are not arab) countries are absolutely CRAPPING in their pants right now after we rolled thru arguably the toughest country (aside from Isreal as they without a doubt in the top 5 military powers in the world) iin the middle east n 3 weeks. Syria is crapping, The Saudi's are crapping, ALL OF them. No one thought we would be able to do what we just did in so short a time and with so few casualties.
Why do u think North Korea all the sudden wants multilateral talks now. THAT guy over there must be filling up his toilet bowl several times a day now!

That being said, I HIGHLY doubt we will be attacking Syria any time soon. I bet if they dont turn over any Iraqi officials that may be there, the specials ops guys go in and do some quick snatches! They just lost over a billion a year in illegal oil revenue and will most likely get sancioned and cut off from US funds for a while. That should be enough for the eye Dr. running the show over there.

They occupy some of the land that isn't theirs, why should they give it back? because it is not rightfully theirs! You cannot just occupy a piece of a country and expect them to be nice in return.....

A return of the occupied land in exchange for peace and an end to the terrorism would be a good deal, and those "dirty arabs" are just trying to get what is rightfully theirs...

And that being said, peace in the middle east highly depends on the actions of Israel...

 

[mboy]

They won it fair and square in a war that was forced upon them, why should they give it back. Actually it is theirs now. So every country that has been turned over the years by way of ANY type of force should be given back right?

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: mboy
They won it fair and square in a war that was forced upon them, why should they give it back. Actually it is theirs now. So every country that has been turned over the years by way of ANY type of force should be given back right?

No, they didn't, sure, they complain when terrorists attack them, and the world thinks it is horrible, but there is a reason, Israel should give back the occupied territiories and maybe it would be seen as an honorable peace offering...

You cannot take, take, take and expect the other side to give, give, give...

If you want peace, you have to offer peace...

 

[TheNinja]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: mboy
They won it fair and square in a war that was forced upon them, why should they give it back. Actually it is theirs now. So every country that has been turned over the years by way of ANY type of force should be given back right?

No, they didn't, sure, they complain when terrorists attack them, and the world thinks it is horrible, but there is a reason, Israel should give back the occupied territiories and maybe it would be seen as an honorable peace offering...

You cannot take, take, take and expect the other side to give, give, give...

If you want peace, you have to offer peace...

But where do you draw the line on giving back land? mboy is right in that after wars land is exchanged, with the loser often times giving up something to the winner (especially if the loser was the agressor). We can't have everyone giving every piece of land back or I'd be living in a British colony again. However I do like you ideas for the most part especially about bringing piece to the region being hte goal and the fact that now is the time as we have the worlds attention focused there.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Staley8

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: mboy
They won it fair and square in a war that was forced upon them, why should they give it back. Actually it is theirs now. So every country that has been turned over the years by way of ANY type of force should be given back right?

No, they didn't, sure, they complain when terrorists attack them, and the world thinks it is horrible, but there is a reason, Israel should give back the occupied territiories and maybe it would be seen as an honorable peace offering...

You cannot take, take, take and expect the other side to give, give, give...

If you want peace, you have to offer peace...

But where do you draw the line on giving back land? mboy is right in that after wars land is exchanged, with the loser often times giving up something to the winner (especially if the loser was the agressor). We can't have everyone giving every piece of land back or I'd be living in a British colony again. However I do like you ideas for the most part especially about bringing piece to the region being hte goal and the fact that now is the time as we have the worlds attention focused there.

Actually, even to claim the land they were given by the British is going out on a limb, claiming the occupied land and expecting no fight is just stupidity, they know this, you know this, i know this...

Return the land for peace and solve a problem of terrorism, or shut up and accept terrorism, it is a choice to make, but the whining to the west and the billions in support are idiotic...

It doesn't take an Einstein to realize that if you support an oppressor there will be people who will be pissed off... ehhh... duhhh... inviting terrorism and then being surprised when terrorism is the result makes little sense...

As long as you get involved, one way or the other, you are going to have ONE side against you... if that surprises you, THINK McFly....

 

[mboy]

Why do you say the land is not theirs if they were attacked, WON and claimed the land? Do you honestly believe the arabs will stop if Isreal gives land back? If u do, u are quite naive, but u seem to be proving that more and more u post. Does Hamas not say they want Isreal to not exist and will accept nothing ele? Thank god people like you have little to no power in the USA and wont for a VERY lonmg time if ever!
I bet u believe we invaded Iraq solely for the purpose of stealing their oil right?

Maybe we can send Hans Blix in to see if Syria has any WMD. GUy has been a weapons inspector for 30 years and to this day, is yet to find 1 wmd anywhere on the globe.

 

[Alistar7]

The US should and is apparently using every bit of it's influence to force Israel to give up ALL settlements and to abide by the original lines as a condition for a Palestinian state, while Syria must work with Israel, the US, and Iraq to provide stability in the region and remove terrorists from their nations. The creation of a Palestinian state, probably 3 years away, will alleviate alot of the tension in the region. the US playing such a large role, including forcing Israel to give back what is really at dispute, will dramatically help they way we percieved, hopefully. It would be nice to see Iraq, Israel, PALESTINE, SA, Eqypt, and Syria all working together to improve life for ALL Arab people. Iran is going to change soon internally, they have also signaled they would like to re-establish ties with the US and have suggested they would be open to inspections (ha-ha) to alleviate any international concerns over their nuclear programs. NK has done this as well. I'm sorry for all the doomsday prophets and naysayers, but this is turning out to be quite the slam dunk for the US. Russia and France have also been kissing our butts recently, notice they were given 8 billion in reconstruction contracts, the only thing better than being right is proving your still a better man, even when you win......

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: mboy
Why do you say the land is not theirs if they were attacked, WON and claimed the land? Do you honestly believe the arabs will stop if Isreal gives land back? If u do, u are quite naive, but u seem to be proving that more and more u post. Does Hamas not say they want Isreal to not exist and will accept nothing ele? Thank god people like you have little to no power in the USA and wont for a VERY lonmg time if ever!
I bet u believe we invaded Iraq solely for the purpose of stealing their oil right?

Maybe we can send Hans Blix in to see if Syria has any WMD. GUy has been a weapons inspector for 30 years and to this day, is yet to find 1 wmd anywhere on the globe.

Imagine trying to last 30 years as a bricklayer without ever lifting a brick..... talk about a slacker.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
The US should and is apparently using every bit of it's influence to force Israel to give up ALL settlements and to abide by the original lines as a condition for a Palestinian state, while Syria must work with Israel, the US, and Iraq to provide stability in the region and remove terrorists from their nations. The creation of a Palestinian state, probably 3 years away, will alleviate alot of the tension in the region. the US playing such a large role, including forcing Israel to give back what is really at dispute, will dramatically help they way we percieved, hopefully. It would be nice to see Iraq, Israel, PALESTINE, SA, Eqypt, and Syria all working together to improve life for ALL Arab people. Iran is going to change soon internally, they have also signaled they would like to re-establish ties with the US and have suggested they would be open to inspections (ha-ha) to alleviate any internationa concerns over their nuclear programs. NK has done this as well. I'm sorry for all the doomsday prophets and naysayers, but this is turning out to be quite the slam dunk for the US. Russia and France have also been kissing our butts recently, notice they were given 8 billion in reconstruction contracts, who's the bigger man now, lol....

Alistar, as proven in numerous threads, you don't know your butt from a hole in the ground, your drivel will not even be answered in this thread as it is just inflammatory BS...

Why don't you just go read resolution 1441 or check out what REALLY happend in Bosnia?

Nah, the truth doesn't matter, does it?

 

[jam3]

No, they didn't, sure, they complain when terrorists attack them, and the world thinks it is horrible, but there is a reason, Israel should give back the occupied territiories and maybe it would be seen as an honorable peace offering...

- Snapit

"but there is a reason" Are you insane? What terroist propaganda machine do you march to? There is a "reason" for everything but there is never and will never be any excuse for terrorism.

As far as the golan heights are concerned you are obviously the one who knows very little about history. Here's some question's,

How many days/months/years did Israeli Civilians get SHELLED before they were able to initially occupy the heights?

How many times have they taken and given up the heights?

Whats the standard range of towed artillery in the modern syrian army?

How many cities could the syrians hit from the heights in that range factoring in height and gravity?


Why on earth would a country give back a militarily advantagious piece of ground to a country who has never offered them peace in any real sense and has shown time and time again willingness to indiscriminatly shell civilian areas, launch terrorist attacks, and even openly support their posistion in the local media. Only a fool would give back that land and most of the israeli's are tough and intelligent enough to understand geopolitical strategy.

You on the other hand....

 

[jam3]

Actualy, u need to wake up. Um, Isreal took that land when THEY WERE ABOUT TO BE ATTACKED BY A BUNCH OF COUNTRIES.

This is basically a true statement in regards to the west bank which is really the artifact of the invasion corridor of the 48 war, EVERYONE who says the west bank somehow was taken during the pre-emptive attack by the israeli's of the 67 war listens to way to much arab propaganda and does't read enough of the history books. The gaza strip and golan heights was taken in the pre-emptive attack of the 67 war. Again anyone who thinks that the 1 million arabs aligned against them in 67 who were poised to attack were actually just sipping tea and not going to attack are very very ignorant of the 57-67 time period and the formation of al-aqsa and the PLO. The arab world was openly preaching genocide against israel and very loudly during that time period. It was very intelligent of the israelis' to launch the initial attack and catch the arabs off guard.


The israeli's could probably give up gaza in negotiations for peace if it looks like the new Palestinian leadership is actually ready for REAL change ( and this could happen since there are so many dead on both sides that war weariness seems to be settling in on the palestinian side for once ). They could also give up parts of the west bank. But they would be extremly foolish to give up the high ground that is theirs by any semblance of might making right. That land ensures them of practical military defenses against an enemy who has shown over and over again a desire to EXTERMINATE them.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Alistar7
The US should and is apparently using every bit of it's influence to force Israel to give up ALL settlements and to abide by the original lines as a condition for a Palestinian state, while Syria must work with Israel, the US, and Iraq to provide stability in the region and remove terrorists from their nations. The creation of a Palestinian state, probably 3 years away, will alleviate alot of the tension in the region. the US playing such a large role, including forcing Israel to give back what is really at dispute, will dramatically help they way we percieved, hopefully. It would be nice to see Iraq, Israel, PALESTINE, SA, Eqypt, and Syria all working together to improve life for ALL Arab people. Iran is going to change soon internally, they have also signaled they would like to re-establish ties with the US and have suggested they would be open to inspections (ha-ha) to alleviate any internationa concerns over their nuclear programs. NK has done this as well. I'm sorry for all the doomsday prophets and naysayers, but this is turning out to be quite the slam dunk for the US. Russia and France have also been kissing our butts recently, notice they were given 8 billion in reconstruction contracts, who's the bigger man now, lol....

Alistar, as proven in numerous threads, you don't know your butt from a hole in the ground, your drivel will not even be answered in this thread as it is just inflammatory BS...

Why don't you just go read resolution 1441 or check out what REALLY happend in Bosnia?

Nah, the truth doesn't matter, does it?

I know the time line in Bosnia, but I linked it here for you in this thread. Corrected your misguided opinions on 1441 as wel.