Regarding Bush's impeachment

[Al Neri]

quote:

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Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
Bush is stating the facts.

<sarcasm>Now let's go impeach him for protecting the American people</sarcasm>
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Said by Megue: Yes, the American people must be protected from their freedoms.

do explain

 

[Meuge]

I believe that people are entitled to privacy in their communications... which may only be infringed upon as a result of due process. I do not believe that a blanket approval of a spying campaign of gigantic proportions (spying largely on anti-war groups and the like) constitutes due process. Furthermore, I believe that this is yet another step by our government in consolidating its power with full intentions to make it as close to absolute as possible. As someone who has lived in a country where the citizens had no expectations of privacy with regards to their government, and where disappearing for criticism of the state had been a common occurrence (largely before I was born, but my parents remember), I feel I have a much better perspective on this, compared to people who hadn't lived under a totalitarial regime.

Bush's excuse - the perpetual "war" seems awfully Orwellian, not just in content, but even in phrasing. In essence, he is saying that to protect us, he has to take away exactly the things that we want to protect. It's like a security guard awho will protect your house for you, under the condition that from then on it'll actually be his.

 

[Meuge]

As far as impeachment is concerned, I think that the actions that I've outlined in the previous post clearly constitute (to me) "high crimes and misdemeanors" on the part of our president.

 

[RightIsWrong]

I couldn't agree more Meuge. I think that, at the very least, there needs to be independant, bipartisan committee hearings into this matter. If they lead to impeachment proceedings happening, so be it. He has made his chose to subvert the constitution and has boldly stated that he is going to continue to do so. It is time that congress boldly stand up and perform it's constitutional duties of checks and balance and look into the legality of these actions.

 

[Al Neri]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I couldn't agree more Meuge. I think that, at the very least, there needs to be independant, bipartisan committee hearings into this matter. If they lead to impeachment proceedings happening, so be it. He has made his chose to subvert the constitution and has boldly stated that he is going to continue to do so. It is time that congress boldly stand up and perform it's constitutional duties of checks and balance and look into the legality of these actions.

specifically speaking... that was quite vague.

 

[Lemon law]

Sooner or later Bush is going to get embarassed really badly as his spying program backfires on him.
Two things will become obvious------it is not catching those its supposed to catch and it is being used for political purposes.------we are not there yet but time will tell if I am right or not.

Meanwhile other festering problems are likely to undo Bush first.

Bush is rough-riding for a hard fall------elections acoming and people no longer trust him. Just one more big set back like Katrina and he is pretty well exposed for the incompetent he has always been.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I couldn't agree more Meuge. I think that, at the very least, there needs to be independant, bipartisan committee hearings into this matter. If they lead to impeachment proceedings happening, so be it. He has made his chose to subvert the constitution and has boldly stated that he is going to continue to do so. It is time that congress boldly stand up and perform it's constitutional duties of checks and balance and look into the legality of these actions.

specifically speaking... that was quite vague.

and your point?

This is quite simple, if Clinton can be impeached for lying about a BJ, Bush can be impeached if he is abusing american civil liberties.

do you agree?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I couldn't agree more Meuge. I think that, at the very least, there needs to be independant, bipartisan committee hearings into this matter. If they lead to impeachment proceedings happening, so be it. He has made his chose to subvert the constitution and has boldly stated that he is going to continue to do so. It is time that congress boldly stand up and perform it's constitutional duties of checks and balance and look into the legality of these actions.

specifically speaking... that was quite vague.

and your point?

This is quite simple, if Clinton can be impeached for lying about a BJ, Bush can be impeached if he is abusing american civil liberties.

do you agree?

Only if a law has been broken, not a feeling or opinion.

 

[ahurtt]

I think we should impeach him just for being an incompetent blithering idiot, moron, and an embarassment to the United States of America. I mean, honestly. . .how can we let a half brain-dead coke addict / alcoholic who can barely form a coherent sentence be the head of one of the most powerful nations on the planet? I feel ashamed when he gets up there on the camera in front of the world and stumbles over his own words and ends up with his foot in his mouth. This guy is not fit for the office he holds.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I couldn't agree more Meuge. I think that, at the very least, there needs to be independant, bipartisan committee hearings into this matter. If they lead to impeachment proceedings happening, so be it. He has made his chose to subvert the constitution and has boldly stated that he is going to continue to do so. It is time that congress boldly stand up and perform it's constitutional duties of checks and balance and look into the legality of these actions.

specifically speaking... that was quite vague.

and your point?

This is quite simple, if Clinton can be impeached for lying about a BJ, Bush can be impeached if he is abusing american civil liberties.

do you agree?

Only if a law has been broken, not a feeling or opinion.

I know you and I see eye to eye on this GenX, I am wondering if Don Rodriguez agrees. He seems to have a problem believing the enormity of the charges that MIGHT be brought up against this administration.

these are serious things.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: ahurtt
I think we should impeach him just for being an incompetent blithering idiot, moron, and an embarassment to the United States of America. I mean, honestly. . .how can we let a half brain-dead coke addict / alcoholic who can barely form a coherent sentence be the head of one of the most powerful nations on the planet? I feel ashamed when he gets up there on the camera in front of the world and stumbles over his own words and ends up with his foot in his mouth. This guy is not fit for the office he holds.

You see, this is FEELING and OPINION

But I want to see facts. That is the only way any impeachment proceeding will move forward. However, I will add that when I read these excerpts from documents like the US Constitution, Clintons/Carters Executive Orders, and FISA Legislation the facts presented by those documents seem to trump any argument brought forth by this administration. But since we aren't on the Supreme Court, our opinions on these facts dont matter...

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I couldn't agree more Meuge. I think that, at the very least, there needs to be independant, bipartisan committee hearings into this matter. If they lead to impeachment proceedings happening, so be it. He has made his chose to subvert the constitution and has boldly stated that he is going to continue to do so. It is time that congress boldly stand up and perform it's constitutional duties of checks and balance and look into the legality of these actions.

specifically speaking... that was quite vague.

and your point?

This is quite simple, if Clinton can be impeached for lying about a BJ, Bush can be impeached if he is abusing american civil liberties.

do you agree?

Only if a law has been broken, not a feeling or opinion.

I know you and I see eye to eye on this GenX, I am wondering if Don Rodriguez agrees. He seems to have a problem believing the enormity of the charges that MIGHT be brought up against this administration.

these are serious things.

I agree with you OrByte, these are serious things and at the least an independant counsel needs to start up, and at the very least force this administration to straighten up a bit. There is no credibility in Washington anymore...and no one wants to stand up against the administration for fear of the repercussions....

Opinion: Sad that we getup in arms over a BJ yet when our civil liberties are being violated we sit around....

 

[Todd33]

Call out threads are a no-no, but this thread just needs a new title.

The law is FISA, it doesn't get more black and white than that. The White claims it has the power under the authorization to use force in Afghanistan, which is ridiculous.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: ahurtt
I think we should impeach him just for being an incompetent blithering idiot, moron, and an embarassment to the United States of America. I mean, honestly. . .how can we let a half brain-dead coke addict / alcoholic who can barely form a coherent sentence be the head of one of the most powerful nations on the planet? I feel ashamed when he gets up there on the camera in front of the world and stumbles over his own words and ends up with his foot in his mouth. This guy is not fit for the office he holds.

You see, this is FEELING and OPINION

But I want to see facts. That is the only way any impeachment proceeding will move forward. However, I will add that when I read these excerpts from documents like the US Constitution, Clintons/Carters Executive Orders, and FISA Legislation the facts presented by those documents seem to trump any argument brought forth by this administration. But since we aren't on the Supreme Court, our opinions on these facts dont matter...

Ok, my feeling is that he is doing a really terrible job. He works for me and all the voting age citizens of the USA. We are all his bosses and if more of us want him out than want him in, he should be gone. End of story. If it were me or you or anybody else doing such a crappy job at work, we'd be canned in a minute. Even if we did half as bad a job as he is doing we'd be canned. Can't we just get rid of him for doing a bad job? Probably not because it seems like once you get a federal gov't job in this country, you practically have to kill somebody and get caught red-handed before you can get fired. And even then, I suppose it would probably matter if you killed anybody "important" or not. It is high-time the citizens of this country sent a reminder to the government officials that it is US who put them in office and that they work for US. Not the other way around. The lack of public accountability in the Government of all levels in this country is simply appalling.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: OrByte
This is quite simple, if Clinton can be impeached for lying about a BJ, Bush can be impeached if he is abusing american civil liberties.

do you agree?

I agree that you are a big FUD spreader.

Clinton was not impeached for "lying about a BJ", he was impeached for perjury to a federal grand jury (on issues far beyond a BJ), and for obstruction of justice.

Please do try and rationalize how protecting this country from terrorists falls in to "high crimes and misdemeanors".

 

[TheSlamma]

I doubt we will ever see an impeachment again, that power of the people is now gone.

Especially if the president is part of the party in complete control.

"Party before Country" Start saying it, your kids will have it in their next homework assignment from the local indoctrination center.

 

[Tom]

I fear for our country because of some of the policies of Bush, But I don't see grounds for impeachment. This issue of warrantless spying and the extent of Presidential power desperately needs to be addressed, but it would be better if it's handled by the Supreme court, instead of in the political arena that Congress is.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: OrByte
This is quite simple, if Clinton can be impeached for lying about a BJ, Bush can be impeached if he is abusing american civil liberties.

do you agree?

I agree that you are a big FUD spreader.

Clinton was not impeached for "lying about a BJ", he was impeached for perjury to a federal grand jury (on issues far beyond a BJ), and for obstruction of justice.

Please do try and rationalize how protecting this country from terrorists falls in to "high crimes and misdemeanors".

your tangent amuses me.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Tom
I fear for our country because of some of the policies of Bush, But I don't see grounds for impeachment. This issue of warrantless spying and the extent of Presidential power desperately needs to be addressed, but it would be better if it's handled by the Supreme court, instead of in the political arena that Congress is.

I think the feeling is that there are enough grounds for an independant investigator, but not an impeachment.

 

[tommywishbone]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
I doubt we will ever see an impeachment again, that power of the people is now gone.

Especially if the president is part of the party in complete control.

"Party before Country" Start saying it, your kids will have it in their next homework assignment from the local indoctrination center.

:thumbsup:

 

[Al Neri]

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/marvinolasky/2004/02/12/10727.html

an interesting read.

anyway. . . the most precious civil liberty is being alive. With that being said, even if (which I don't really think) Bush went above and beyond the constitution, if it was to protect my life or someone else's life, I really wouldn't have that much of a problem with it. I have nothing to hide. And if those who say give an inch take a mile. give me a break.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/marvinolasky/2004/02/12/10727.html

an interesting read.

anyway. . . the most precious civil liberty is being alive. With that being said, even if (which I don't really think) Bush went above and beyond the constitution, if it was to protect my life or someone else's life, I really wouldn't have that much of a problem with it. I have nothing to hide. And if those who say give an inch take a mile. give me a break.

So you want the terrorists to win?

 

[Al Neri]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/marvinolasky/2004/02/12/10727.html

an interesting read.

anyway. . . the most precious civil liberty is being alive. With that being said, even if (which I don't really think) Bush went above and beyond the constitution, if it was to protect my life or someone else's life, I really wouldn't have that much of a problem with it. I have nothing to hide. And if those who say give an inch take a mile. give me a break.

So you want the terrorists to win?

I saw and felt first hand what terrorists did on 9/11.

I will go above and beyond giving up certain liberties to see that something like that ever happens on US soil.

Edit: let me clarify If it is terrorist related. Which I have nothing to hide.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: ahurtt
I think we should impeach him just for being an incompetent blithering idiot, moron, and an embarassment to the United States of America. I mean, honestly. . .how can we let a half brain-dead coke addict / alcoholic who can barely form a coherent sentence be the head of one of the most powerful nations on the planet? I feel ashamed when he gets up there on the camera in front of the world and stumbles over his own words and ends up with his foot in his mouth. This guy is not fit for the office he holds.

Tell you somthing about his supporters does'nt it? People are pretty fusked up in general in this country dispite the facade/veneer.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Don Rodriguez
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/marvinolasky/2004/02/12/10727.html

an interesting read.

anyway. . . the most precious civil liberty is being alive. With that being said, even if (which I don't really think) Bush went above and beyond the constitution, if it was to protect my life or someone else's life, I really wouldn't have that much of a problem with it. I have nothing to hide. And if those who say give an inch take a mile. give me a break.

So you want the terrorists to win?

I saw and felt first hand what terrorists did on 9/11.

I will go above and beyond giving up certain liberties to see that something like that ever happens on US soil.

Then you do no justice whatsoever to those that died on 9/11 because that is exactly what terrorists want, to take away our way of life, that means our liberties. Don't hide behind 9/11. We want our American way of life and we will never give up that which makes us who we are, our freedoms. I bet those that died at the hands of terrorists on 9/11 would feel the same way.

Don't let OBL scare you.