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refurb laptop batteries

xfarmer

Member
I have been seeing refurbished laptop batteries for sale in places like Egay (sp?). They claim to have the bad cells replaced and have 20% more capacity than the originals. According to the article at this website, this task is next to impossible to perform and to stay away from these because they are a scam.
Link to article

What is the opinion of these refurbs from the great minds that frequent this forum? Has anyone tried one of these and can express a real life opinion?

Thanks for any feedback you may be able to contribute,

xfarmer
 
This should be in general hardware.

Sorry everman, I thought I was in the right place for this. Is there a way to move this post to General Hardware, or should I just repost over there?

Thanks for not being too harsh on a newbie, I have the utmost respect for the vast amount of knowledge that is present in these forums.

xfarmer

 
Gotta get this in before a lock.

Well, most of the linked article is horsepucky.

Charging circuits are not carefully designed for the impedance of a particular batch of batteries. They are designed for the chemistry involved (Ni-MH v. Li-Ion), for the approximate voltage (read, number of cells), and for the really approximate capacity of the cells ( 1600, 1800, 2000 mah batteries would all be safely charged by the same circuit, but a different circuit would be used for a 4000 mah battery for example).

Li-Ion batteries are only slightly more difficult to charge than Ni-Mh (you need four different charge states: Constant low-current for initial charge, Constant high-current, Constant voltage, and Off, where Ni-MH only needs two (Constant high-current and constant low-current)), and have a few more safety precautions around them (For example, letting a Ni-Mh pack discharge too far reduces it's capacity on subsequent charge/discharge cycles; letting a Li-Ion pack discharge too far can cause fire and noxious chemical release, in addition to a probable permanent failure of the cell).

Thus, most of the arguments about matching cells to charging circuitry are bogus.

However, it is correct that you must match the cells relatively closely. This is not a problem when buying a bunch of cells a lot at a time, but is extremely difficult when buying individual cells months or years later to try and match to other cells in a pack. The physical reason for matching is due to discharge - if one cell discharges before the others, and the device does not detect it and shut down, the discharged cell will be getting a "reverse charge". This reverse charging causes irreversible chemical reactions at the cathode and anode, further damaging the cell and reducing it's capacity.

His argument about the packs being ultrasonically welded is also valid, but is more a technique/tools/workmanship issue than a roadblock. I do not have the tools or techniques to seperate the halves of a battery pack cleanly; that doesn't mean that a company devoted to doing so couldn't develop them.

So, if the refurbisher replaces ALL cells in a pack with new ones, even new ones with 20-30% more capacity, all the charging and protection ciruitry will still work just fine, and the pack will be fine, subject to the workmanship of the plastics work. If the refurbisher simply tests to find the dead cells in a pack, and replaces only those, then the life of the pack will be short as the new cells will NOT be matched to the rest of the pack. It will appear to work fine, and even have good capacity, for a number of charge/discharge cycles, but will fail long before a pack built completely with new cells. If the refurbisher is a real sleazeball, there are certain tricks one can use to rehabilitate some NiCd and even NiMH packs that don't require disassembling the packs, but have an even shorter expected lifetime (for example, using a short duration, very high current pulse to vaporize internal crystals that have poked through the seperator and are causing short-circuits).

So, the quality of the pack rebuild can be highly variable, and is based on the rebuilder. Buying the cheapest rebuild you can find will probably lead to heartache, as it may be "rebuilt" using one of the last two approaches. Buying a more expensive one is no guarantee of a quality rebuild, but it's more likely. I would only buy from an established dealer who guarantees that ALL cells are replaced.

/frank
 
Thanks Kilroy Smith, That is the type of discussion I was hoping to generate with my original post. You have given me some very helpful opinions on this matter, and I appreciate it very much. I hope you continue to share your wealth of knowledge with the rest of us!
Thanks again,
xfarmer
 
I have to agree with the great info above
I have tried a cheapo refurb on my drill packs by zapping and only replacing the totally dead cells--
the resulting packs worked but are nowhere near equal a fresh full set.
🙁
 
To demonstrate just how quick and how dirty a battery pack repair can be and still work for a while. Ni-cads can develope shorts internally from needle crystals forming in discharged cells. One way to clear them is to throw the cells at a hard surface several times and check them with a meter. If that doesn't work, apply a heavy current across the cells one at a time from a DC power supply that can provide several amps of current. Don't hold it across the battery until it gets hot or the battery might explode. You can also cannibalize several packs to repair one. I have used these methods for battery packs used in power tools and model aircraft with a reasonable rate of success. I shave every morning with a Remington razor that has Ni-cad cells in it out of a Makita drill.
 
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