Reenacting the Holocaust by simulating Nazi gas chambers // Keeping whites separated from the inferior races

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
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Soccer fans' increasing racist taunts raise concerns

In the Netherlands last month, a referee for the first time invoked a new rule and stopped a game in The Hague. The crowd had become hostile, chanting, ''Go to the gas chamber!'' and calling the referee ''the whore of Hamas,'' referring to the Palestinian extremist group. When the Amsterdam team Ajax plays, fans of rival teams often make a loud hissing noise, to simulate Nazi gas chambers -- a reference to the team's supposedly Jewish origins.

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Racism plagues European soccer

BY STEPHEN WADE

ASSOCIATED PRESS

SEVILLE, Spain - Spaniards used to say they lived in one of Europe's most racially tolerant countries. Soccer has shattered that myth.

In Madrid's Santiago Bernabeu stadium -- the Yankee Stadium of soccer -- Spanish fans bellowed out monkey noises last week each time a black English player touched the ball in a match between England and Spain.

A month earlier, Spanish national coach Luis Aragones was caught by a TV crew using racist language about France's star striker Thierry Henry. He kept his job with little protest at home.

"I was shocked and I am still shocked at what happened," said Sepp Blatter, president of FIFA, soccer's world governing body. "I am sad at this new expression of racism in a stadium that has been a temple of football."

Spain isn't the only European country where racism leaves its stain on soccer:

? Four days after the abuse in Madrid, black striker Dwight Yorke said he was subjected to racist gestures and noises in Birmingham City's game at Blackburn. Police opened an investigation.

? French club Paris St. Germain has an area where only white fans are welcome; another section is open to Paris' Arab and black immigrants.

? Fans of the Czech team Sparta Prague still shout "Slavia Jude" (Slavia Jew) against local rivals Slavia Prague. The chant dates from the pre-World War II era, when Slavia fans included many Jewish businessmen.

Baseball broke its color line in 1947 when Jackie Robinson joined the Brooklyn Dodgers. Robinson was taunted for years, and it wasn't until the 1960s that civil rights laws and anti-racism campaigns allowed blacks to move easily into most major pro and college sports.

Countries such as Spain traditionally have sent citizens abroad, and only began to experience widespread immigration in the past two decades. Spaniards often say they entered the 20th century in 1975 -- the year dictator Francisco Franco died.

"It took immigrants coming to this country for us to realize that we can be racist like any other country, like anybody else," said Tomas Calvo Buezas, director of the Center for Studies of Migration and Racism at Complutense University in Madrid.

About 7.5 percent of Spain's 40 million citizens are immigrants. The figure is higher in Madrid, where 13 percent are foreign born, Calvo Buezas said.

"Soccer stirs up raw emotions," said Isabel Torrado, working at Dehesa Santa Maria, a cafe-bar just 100 yards from the Ramon Sanchez-Pizjuan stadium -- home of the Sevilla soccer team.

After France won the 1998 World Cup and the 2000 European championship with a team dominated by black and North African immigrants, 39 percent in a French survey said there were too many foreign-born players on the team.

Fans at Italian clubs Lazio and Verona have been warned about racist goading.

Known as Europe's most tolerant country, even the Netherlands has seen repeated racial incidents and violence at The Hague-based club Ado Den Haag. Dutch powers Ajax and Feyenoord also have notorious fans.

Former Yugoslav national coach Ivica Osim said soccer racism in his almost entirely white region stems from a deep-seated "inferiority complex against larger, richer clubs or countries."

"The racism in football is all about national identity," said Stefan Szymanski, economics professor at Tanaka Business School in London. "It's a way of cementing your identity and singling out people who are not like you."

Despite anti-racism campaigns by UEFA, the governing body of European soccer, and denunciations of racial abuse by FIFA, the message often goes unheeded.

I guess Asians aren't even allowed inside the stadium.
 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
8,903
2
76
French club Paris St. Germain have neo-nazi followers. according to the British football magazines i read
 

NesuD

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,999
106
106
Well Well So all that cultural superiority and tolerance Is just so much BS. Europe Seems to have just as many if not more bigots that the US. Looks a bit more institutionalized there to. The kinds of Racism sescribed in the OP are virtually unheard of in the states and have been for decades.
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
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Originally posted by: NesuD
Well Well So all that cultural superiority and tolerance Is just so much BS. Europe Seems to have just as many if not more bigots that the US. Looks a bit more institutionalized there to. The kinds of Racism sescribed in the OP are virtually unheard of in the states and have been for decades.

I would say that Europe definitely has far more bigots than the US or Canada. It is not even comparable. When a racist political party is your largest political party or receives significant support, then you have problems.

European football seems to be rampant with racism and bigots - it must be like the Nascar of European sports. I can't even believe that some of these things are happening. What's the full story on the segregation part? How is that even allowed? I think that the US is far more sensitive to race issues. If a coach in the US was caught using racist language then public outrage would be enormous. He would likely lose his job.

What was that last slogan from one of the other CoW threads about European football? I think it was 'gas gas gas a jew jew jew' or something like that.
 

imported_Aelius

Golden Member
Apr 25, 2004
1,988
0
0
Originally posted by: NesuD
Well Well So all that cultural superiority and tolerance Is just so much BS. Europe Seems to have just as many if not more bigots that the US. Looks a bit more institutionalized there to. The kinds of Racism sescribed in the OP are virtually unheard of in the states and have been for decades.

Ahh the coveted blanket statement.

I was waiting for that.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: Aelius
Originally posted by: NesuD
Well Well So all that cultural superiority and tolerance Is just so much BS. Europe Seems to have just as many if not more bigots that the US. Looks a bit more institutionalized there to. The kinds of Racism sescribed in the OP are virtually unheard of in the states and have been for decades.

Ahh the coveted blanket statement.

I was waiting for that.

It's clear that Europeans are racist as well, so all you liberals out there calling Republicans bigots and racists, your heros, the Europeans, are bigots just the same.
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Eh, the most we can do is to keep educating people because racism is something you can't get rid of, but it is something you can try to minimize, it just takes a looong time though... Just because it exists and you bash it doesn't mean it'll go away~~

But it is true taht if Phil Jackson or any coah was caught using a slur they'd be fired.

And France is stupid, without their minority players there is no way they would have take the cup (Go Zidane ^_^ ) so when 39% beleive ther are too many "foreign" players they might as well hand over the cup to the Brazilians~ :p
 

nCred

Golden Member
Oct 13, 2003
1,109
114
106
Originally posted by: NesuD
Well Well So all that cultural superiority and tolerance Is just so much BS. Europe Seems to have just as many if not more bigots that the US. Looks a bit more institutionalized there to. The kinds of Racism sescribed in the OP are virtually unheard of in the states and have been for decades.

Who has said that Europe is more tolerant? I´ve heard it many many times on P&N, but I live in Europe and I have NEVER heard anything about that here.
There are as many gay-haters and racists in Europe as in the US. There´s a big difference between anti-immigration people and racists..
 

imported_Aelius

Golden Member
Apr 25, 2004
1,988
0
0
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: Aelius
Originally posted by: NesuD
Well Well So all that cultural superiority and tolerance Is just so much BS. Europe Seems to have just as many if not more bigots that the US. Looks a bit more institutionalized there to. The kinds of Racism sescribed in the OP are virtually unheard of in the states and have been for decades.

Ahh the coveted blanket statement.

I was waiting for that.

It's clear that Europeans are racist as well, so all you liberals out there calling Republicans bigots and racists, your heros, the Europeans, are bigots just the same.

And the sheep start to chime in right on queue.

1. I'm not a liberal but thanks for using that blanket statement.

2. I'm European and know full well that racism is widespread, but saying that Europeans are racist is just another blanket statement.

There are some issues with certain groups of people in Europe (as elsewhere). The problem is certain groups seize on these issues and start preaching hate. Of course ignorant people seize on this and continue the hate. It's sad to watch or read about it. However this doesn't represent the idealism of most Europeans. Of course ignorant people will seize on such displays and claim the moral low ground on Europe's behalf.

3. I have yet to see someone claim the moral high ground for Europeans in this forum.

4. Perhaps the reason why people tend to claim the moral low ground for Europeans is because they see themselves or their nation at the moral low ground. By claiming that someone else is just as low or far morally lower makes themselves feel good about where their nation stands morally.
 
Aug 14, 2001
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2. I'm European and know full well that racism is widespread, but saying that Europeans are racist is just another blanket statement.

What exactly was the original blanket statement that you took offense to in regards to NesuD?y.
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
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Originally posted by: nCred
Originally posted by: NesuD
Well Well So all that cultural superiority and tolerance Is just so much BS. Europe Seems to have just as many if not more bigots that the US. Looks a bit more institutionalized there to. The kinds of Racism sescribed in the OP are virtually unheard of in the states and have been for decades.

Who has said that Europe is more tolerant? I´ve heard it many many times on P&N, but I live in Europe and I have NEVER heard anything about that here.
There are as many gay-haters and racists in Europe as in the US. There´s a big difference between anti-immigration people and racists..

I disagree.

I think there is a significantly larger number of racists in Europe than in the US/Canada - and it seems to be more acceptable to have such a position there.

However, I would say that the US has much more 'gay-haters' than Europe.
 

JustAnAverageGuy

Diamond Member
Aug 1, 2003
9,057
0
76
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: Aelius
Originally posted by: NesuD
Well Well So all that cultural superiority and tolerance Is just so much BS. Europe Seems to have just as many if not more bigots that the US. Looks a bit more institutionalized there to. The kinds of Racism sescribed in the OP are virtually unheard of in the states and have been for decades.

Ahh the coveted blanket statement.

I was waiting for that.

It's clear that Europeans are racist as well, so all you liberals out there calling Republicans bigots and racists, your heros, the Europeans, are bigots just the same.

Simply because other people do it too doesn't make it any more justified.

Wrong is wrong whether 1 person or 100 million people believe it's right.
 

imported_Aelius

Golden Member
Apr 25, 2004
1,988
0
0
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
2. I'm European and know full well that racism is widespread, but saying that Europeans are racist is just another blanket statement.

What exactly was the original blanket statement that you took offense to in regards to NesuD?y.

Read his post. I don't understand how hard it is to see it's a blanket statement. Since it's a blanket statement. Geez
 

imported_Aelius

Golden Member
Apr 25, 2004
1,988
0
0
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Originally posted by: nCred
Originally posted by: NesuD
Well Well So all that cultural superiority and tolerance Is just so much BS. Europe Seems to have just as many if not more bigots that the US. Looks a bit more institutionalized there to. The kinds of Racism sescribed in the OP are virtually unheard of in the states and have been for decades.

Who has said that Europe is more tolerant? I´ve heard it many many times on P&N, but I live in Europe and I have NEVER heard anything about that here.
There are as many gay-haters and racists in Europe as in the US. There´s a big difference between anti-immigration people and racists..

I disagree.

I think there is a significantly larger number of racists in Europe than in the US/Canada - and it seems to be more acceptable to have such a position there.

However, I would say that the US has much more 'gay-haters' than Europe.

Going by mass media is a mistake since they tend to fan the flames. This is true of most mass media both European and Western. This whole issue is a very touchy subject and the blanket statements being tossed around just makes people here look rather dumb.
 

f95toli

Golden Member
Nov 21, 2002
1,547
0
0
Originally posted by: maddogchen
French club Paris St. Germain have neo-nazi followers. according to the British football magazines i read

Many soccer clubs have neo-nazi followers. For some reason soccer seems to attract neo-nazis and other extremists which seem to use soccer as an excuse to fight. Nowadays some "supporters" even arrange fights (on the internet forums) before the match. They agree to meet somewhere (sometime in another town where there is less chance of running into the police) and then they fight against each other ("fighting for their team").



 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
0
0
Originally posted by: Aelius
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
2. I'm European and know full well that racism is widespread, but saying that Europeans are racist is just another blanket statement.

What exactly was the original blanket statement that you took offense to in regards to NesuD?y.

Read his post. I don't understand how hard it is to see it's a blanket statement. Since it's a blanket statement. Geez

He simply said:

Well Well So all that cultural superiority and tolerance Is just so much BS. Europe Seems to have just as many if not more bigots that the US. Looks a bit more institutionalized there to. The kinds of Racism sescribed in the OP are virtually unheard of in the states and have been for decades.

Seems to me that he is refuting a blanket statement - 'Americans are more racist than Europeans'.

It seems that you are going to need to label almost everything that is critical towards a country in general as a blanket statement and should post such similar comments in such cases. Of course I doubt you will - instead this seems to be a case of you taking such criticism personally.

 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
0
0
Originally posted by: Aelius
Going by mass media is a mistake since they tend to fan the flames. This is true of most mass media both European and Western. This whole issue is a very touchy subject and the blanket statements being tossed around just makes people here look rather dumb.

Not really. Saying 'There are more racists in Europe than in the US or Canada' is not 'dumb'. It is not a statement generally applied to each and every person in the population.

I agree that this is a very touchy issue. However, ignoring this issue or calling any attention towards this issue as 'dumb' or as evil 'blanket statements' will hinder progress.

The facts will tell the truth of the situation - and to me the facts scream that Europe has a serious problem, much more so than the US or Canada.
 

judasmachine

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
8,515
3
81
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: Aelius
Originally posted by: NesuD
Well Well So all that cultural superiority and tolerance Is just so much BS. Europe Seems to have just as many if not more bigots that the US. Looks a bit more institutionalized there to. The kinds of Racism sescribed in the OP are virtually unheard of in the states and have been for decades.

Ahh the coveted blanket statement.

I was waiting for that.

It's clear that Europeans are racist as well, so all you liberals out there calling Republicans bigots and racists, your heros, the Europeans, are bigots just the same.

I just want to go on record saying that no racist is my "hero." I understand what you are saying, but it simply isn't true for me. I respect some Europeans as I respect some Americans, and recognize the fact that all groups have stupid people in them. The battle isn't against the US, with help from Europeans, the battle is against all bigots of all cultures.

 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
0
0
Originally posted by: Aelius
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: Aelius
Originally posted by: NesuD
Well Well So all that cultural superiority and tolerance Is just so much BS. Europe Seems to have just as many if not more bigots that the US. Looks a bit more institutionalized there to. The kinds of Racism sescribed in the OP are virtually unheard of in the states and have been for decades.

Ahh the coveted blanket statement.

I was waiting for that.

It's clear that Europeans are racist as well, so all you liberals out there calling Republicans bigots and racists, your heros, the Europeans, are bigots just the same.

And the sheep start to chime in right on queue.

1. I'm not a liberal but thanks for using that blanket statement.

2. I'm European and know full well that racism is widespread, but saying that Europeans are racist is just another blanket statement.

There are some issues with certain groups of people in Europe (as elsewhere). The problem is certain groups seize on these issues and start preaching hate. Of course ignorant people seize on this and continue the hate. It's sad to watch or read about it. However this doesn't represent the idealism of most Europeans. Of course ignorant people will seize on such displays and claim the moral low ground on Europe's behalf.

3. I have yet to see someone claim the moral high ground for Europeans in this forum.

4. Perhaps the reason why people tend to claim the moral low ground for Europeans is because they see themselves or their nation at the moral low ground. By claiming that someone else is just as low or far morally lower makes themselves feel good about where their nation stands morally.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough with my original statement. I am in NO WAY saying all Europeans are racist, or even say most are. I'm just saying Europeans do in fact have racists in their society, as do liberal people, and conservative people. It's not one group of people, everyone has their biases and beliefs, false as they may be. Sometimes liberals like to make blanket statements saying conservatives are bigots b/c they "hate gays" and all this stuff, but they fail realize that calling conservatives brainwashed and stupid is in itself bigotry.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
Originally posted by: maddogchen
French club Paris St. Germain have neo-nazi followers. according to the British football magazines i read

apparently a lot of far-right political parties recruit from clubs too
 

Isla

Elite member
Sep 12, 2000
7,749
2
0
Well, I'm half white Spanish and half non-white Spanish.

The Moors never got to Asturias and Galicia.... the northern mountain regions of Spain. So in my family, there are some pretty white looking people.

Pero mi Cubano abuelitos are mixed Spanish, African, and Asian. So in my family, we have some with darker skin, some with kinky hair, some with Asian looking eyes. I say Yay to that, personally. :)

Still, my Cuban grandfather was WAY prejudiced, even though he was part African. He was very concerned with NOT being perceived as black. You know, he wanted to be sure he and all his children 'passed'. That is one thing I really didn't like about him.

Anyway, it's pretty much too late for anyone of Spanish ancestry. All the conquering the Spaniards did pretty much ensured mixed progeny. :p