Reddit CEO Ellen Pao's bold move to end gender discrimination — banning salary neg.

[senseamp]

I don't see the issue with her negotiating her own salary.
It was Reddit board's choice to set the rules for salary negotiations (if any) with her.
They were free to make a final take it or leave it offer up front, or make an initial offer and agree to negotiate with her to finalize it.
Just like you go to Toyota dealer, you are going to haggle, because that's the pricing structure the company has chosen. If you go to a Scion dealer, you are not going to haggle, because the company has chosen to have take it or leave it no-haggle pricing.
The initial price is different depending on whether it's a no haggle price or starting point to a negotiation.
My approach is I try to be transparent to potential employers before they make an offer how much it would take to hire me. If they screw up and make too low of an offer, I move on. A low initial offer poisons the well, IMO. I want them to see value in my skills themselves and want to compensate me accordingly, otherwise I am not interested in joining. So to me, the initial offer is an important tell of how the company will treat me down the road. If I have to haggle for a higher offer up front, the company is not proactive on compensation, so I'll have to haggle for raises later. It's not healthy, IMO.

 

[Nebor]

So the company pays their employees less and seems like a hero at the same time. Brilliant.

This is it. Except the only people who will consider her a hero are feminist types who are too dumb to understand why this will cost the company talent. Their idea of a perfect company is one full of women who have "safe rooms" everywhere in case they get triggered by something in the workspace. Innovation? Profitability? Those are secondary to feelings.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Innovation? Profitability? Those are secondary to feelings.

Clearly innovation and profitability should be higher priorities than silly things like the emotional well-being of employees. Everyone knows money is more important than people.

 

[Tweak155]

I interviewed in 2010 with a company who did this. The base pay was the same for each hire. They wanted me due to my experience and range of contacts here in the Carolinas. Looking at their employee base on Linkedin, I could see they hired a lot of fresh college grads that were probably grateful to even have a job. I was 40 at the time.

I went through multiple interviews and was asked if I wanted the job. I pushed on the base pay (it was ridiculous how low a base it actually was) and they came back and said that was non-negotiable. I told them I wasn't interested then and if their stance on the base changed, I'd be more than happy to reconsider their offer.

This CEO of Reddit is a fucking moron.

Sounds like a typical bad experience people will get from the company.

If they are staunch about it, then post the salary before anyone even applies. That way no one wastes any time.

 

[werepossum]

She is a capitalist because she wants to make more money? So I assume all others who follow a different economic system don't want to make money?

I think this CEO is justifying her actions as social justice, but in reality its about keeping down wages. But to say that people want to make money and are willing to underpay others has nothing to do with capitalism. Shitty people are shitty people.

I'm guessing this has nothing to do with keeping down wages and everything to do with positioning Ellen Pao as THE social justice warrior, something that might actually get her a job after Reddit has a real CEO.

 

[SMOGZINN]

An example that happened to me about 20 minutes ago. We have a new company coming out to do some work at the house. My SO is there, they tell her the price for the work will be $290. She tells them that is way above the price we were expecting. They tell her that they might be able to come down to $250. She says no, that they are not even in the ballpark of what we want. They tell her that they can't deal with her.

They call me (I was the one originally talking to them, and it is my house) to me that they won't be able to do the work, because my girlfriend is being unreasonable in the amount she wants to pay. I tell them that I was expecting the price to be around $50, not in the 200 range, he immediatly tells me that he could probably do it for $75. I say okay.
They are at the house doing the work now.

So, it was unreasonable for her to expect them to do it for less than $200, but just fine for me to ask for it to be done for $50, and get it for $75.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

An example that happened to me about 20 minutes ago. We have a new company coming out to do some work at the house. My SO is there, they tell her the price for the work will be $290. She tells them that is way above the price we were expecting. They tell her that they might be able to come down to $250. She says no, that they are not even in the ballpark of what we want. They tell her that they can't deal with her.

They call me (I was the one originally talking to them, and it is my house) to me that they won't be able to do the work, because my girlfriend is being unreasonable in the amount she wants to pay. I tell them that I was expecting the price to be around $50, not in the 200 range, he immediatly tells me that he could probably do it for $75. I say okay.
They are at the house doing the work now.

So, it was unreasonable for her to expect them to do it for less than $200, but just fine for me to ask for it to be done for $50, and get it for $75.

Sounds like they were just trying the old "mom said no, I'll ask dad" trick to see if you'd pay $250 even though your SO wouldn't. They see you're on the same page, oh, OK, we can do it cheap then. But why would they leave money on the table negotiating with your SO when you might be a total pushover?

 

[alcoholbob]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

Yeah I don't see any references to central planning in your wiki link defining capitalism. Do you even read your own links?

 

[SMOGZINN]

Sounds like they were just trying the old "mom said no, I'll ask dad" trick to see if you'd pay $250 even though your SO wouldn't. They see you're on the same page, oh, OK, we can do it cheap then. But why would they leave money on the table negotiating with your SO when you might be a total pushover?

The thing to remember here is that they called me to let me know that they were not going to do the work. They had already left. I reopened negotiations.
The fact is, every married man know that you are better off doing the negotiation yourself because men do not negotiate well with women. Married men ask yourself, would you let your wife negotiate the purchase of a new car by herself?

 

[norseamd]

Yeah I don't see any references to central planning in your wiki link defining capitalism. Do you even read your own links?

When did this only revolve around central planning which most countries actually practice at least with some type of limited influence.

Read again and realize that profits are central to capitalism.

 

[werepossum]

The thing to remember here is that they called me to let me know that they were not going to do the work. They had already left. I reopened negotiations.
The fact is, every married man know that you are better off doing the negotiation yourself because men do not negotiate well with women. Married men ask yourself, would you let your wife negotiate the purchase of a new car by herself?

Yes, because my wife can pinch a penny until it becomes wire, whereas I just want to get back home.

 

[Exophase]

The thing to remember here is that they called me to let me know that they were not going to do the work. They had already left. I reopened negotiations.
The fact is, every married man know that you are better off doing the negotiation yourself because men do not negotiate well with women. Married men ask yourself, would you let your wife negotiate the purchase of a new car by herself?

My girlfriend would never agree to be put in that position, but I'll tell you this much, I'd let my sister negotiate over me any day of the week. She is much more shrewd and much better at dealing with people than I am. Which is probably why she is in a position of upper management and interviews, hires, and fires people while I am not. I don't know this for a fact, but I suspect that her husband (who is more meek than she is) wouldn't want to assume negotiations over her either.

Saying that everyone knows that men don't negotiate well with women isn't any better than saying that everyone knows that women are poor negotiators. You're still assuming something about a person based on a sexist stereotype.

 

[realibrad]

When did this only revolve around central planning which most countries actually practice at least with some type of limited influence.

Read again and realize that profits are central to capitalism.

Profits in Capitalism is a signal. The markets lets people know what they like through profits. If your costs are internalized and you make profits then you are doing something productive. In capitalism you own the rights and means of production. The market signals where you can go, and you fill the need. In all other systems, you have an central planner(s) deciding where market resources should go and what the demand should be.

This CEO is trying to control the resource of wages and ignoring the market value of each individual. This is not capitalism.

 

[Nebor]

Clearly innovation and profitability should be higher priorities than silly things like the emotional well-being of employees. Everyone knows money is more important than people.

Hahahahahaha. Yeah let's abandon the basic tenants of our free market economy for the sake of "emotional well-being," a phrase that didn't exist 20 years ago. Good luck with your feelings-based enterprises.

Not to mention the fact that you're implying all these low-paid (remember no one can negotiate) employees, doing the same job as other people in other companies who make more money, are going to somehow be happier, or have more "emotional well-being," just because they didn't have to negotiate their salary. LOL just LOL.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Hahahahahaha. Yeah let's abandon the basic tenants of our free market economy for the sake of "emotional well-being," a phrase that didn't exist 20 years ago. Good luck with your feelings-based enterprises.

Not to mention the fact that you're implying all these low-paid (remember no one can negotiate) employees, doing the same job as other people in other companies who make more money, are going to somehow be happier, or have more "emotional well-being," just because they didn't have to negotiate their salary. LOL just LOL.

Well, no, I think the policy about ending salary negotiations is ridiculous. But I also think the way you framed your argument was absurd; it was literally "money is more important than employee happiness," and that's a sentiment I can't agree with. I think there's ample opportunity for an organization to do both, which might explain why companies like Google and Facebook make money hand over fist while also lavishly rewarding employees with all manner of perks. The two are not mutually exclusive, and the best companies find a way to balance rewards for both employees and shareholders.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Profits in Capitalism is a signal. The markets lets people know what they like through profits. If your costs are internalized and you make profits then you are doing something productive. In capitalism you own the rights and means of production. The market signals where you can go, and you fill the need. In all other systems, you have an central planner(s) deciding where market resources should go and what the demand should be.

This CEO is trying to control the resource of wages and ignoring the market value of each individual. This is not capitalism.

You don't negotiate with the pig for the ham.

 

[her209]

Frankly, the whole "You shouldn't disclose your salary to your coworker" is nonsense. Companies don't want coworkers sharing this information because it means they lose an advantage over employee compensation. Why should your company pay you the same as Bob when they can get away with 80% for the same amount of work. Notice how companies have no qualms when it comes to mutually sharing compensation information between each other.

 

[her209]

An example that happened to me about 20 minutes ago. We have a new company coming out to do some work at the house. My SO is there, they tell her the price for the work will be $290. She tells them that is way above the price we were expecting. They tell her that they might be able to come down to $250. She says no, that they are not even in the ballpark of what we want. They tell her that they can't deal with her.

They call me (I was the one originally talking to them, and it is my house) to me that they won't be able to do the work, because my girlfriend is being unreasonable in the amount she wants to pay. I tell them that I was expecting the price to be around $50, not in the 200 range, he immediatly tells me that he could probably do it for $75. I say okay.
They are at the house doing the work now.

So, it was unreasonable for her to expect them to do it for less than $200, but just fine for me to ask for it to be done for $50, and get it for $75.

Its the same reason why mechanics love it when women take their car in for service. There's already an assumption that women don't know and can be easily taken.

 

[realibrad]

You don't negotiate with the pig for the ham.

That is a sad view you have of capitalism. Your view and misunderstanding is quite popular. The idea that those at the top only get there because of how they use the ones below them in an abusive way is wrong but popular.

Again, Capitalism like any other system is driven by those who want things. Are you trying to say that capitalism causes problems that other economic system do not cause? Can you list a better system and explain how it fixes problems that Capitalism does not?