Red States Spend $2 Billion MORE, Just To Spite ACA

[Newell Steamer]

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/10/red-states-spent-2-billion-2015-screw-poor

... the states that have refused the expansion are cutting off their noses to spite their faces. They're actually willing to shell out money just to demonstrate their implacable hatred of Obamacare. How much money? Well, the expansion-refusing states spent $61 billion of their own money on Medicaid in 2014. If that had grown at 3.4 percent instead of 6.9 percent, they would have saved about $2 billion this year.

Here is the actual Kaiser survey: http://kff.org/medicaid/issue-brief...81751614|bfcadb1d-4da3-4f71-af82-ce1dfa73d7db - since Mother Jones causes some of you to lose control over your bowels.

Anyway, I thought Conservatives WANT to save money - yet, here they are shoveling $$$ out the window, for spiteful reasons.

 

[thraashman]

Anyway, I thought Conservatives WANT to save money - yet, here they are shoveling $$$ out the window, for spiteful reasons.

There's actually anyone that believes that conservatives have good economic policies? Or is this directed at only those people who've suffered traumatic brain injuries since I can't imagine anyone else having low enough brain function to believe conservatives are economically intelligent.

 

[Newell Steamer]

There's actually anyone that believes that conservatives have good economic policies? Or is this directed at only those people who've suffered traumatic brain injuries since I can't imagine anyone else having low enough brain function to believe conservatives are economically intelligent.

Well, they claim:
- family values, yet the ones who push them don't respect them themselves
- valuing life, yet they push for the death penalty
- saving money, yet they are the ones who spend wastefully

It is not that they lack intelligence, it is that they lack truthfulness. They don't do these things because they respect and defend the core issues - that is clear.

They do these things to punish people they don't like. In this case, they are punishing the poor, by spending $2 billion more.

 

[fskimospy]

Well, they claim:
- family values, yet the ones who push them don't respect them themselves
- valuing life, yet they push for the death penalty
- saving money, yet they are the ones who spend wastefully

It is not that they lack intelligence, it is that they lack truthfulness. They don't do these things because they respect and defend the core issues - that is clear.

They do these things to punish people they don't like. In this case, they are punishing the poor, by spending $2 billion more.

All this makes sense when you think of it as a culture war instead of a policy war.

Just look at all the Republican candidates pushing for budget busting tax cuts after spending 8 years talking about how deficits will ruin our children. They don't care what things cost, they care about the culture war.

 

[sm625]

This is what states should be doing. Force that money to be paid directly by the taxpayer, instead of simply running up a deficit on the federal level which will never be paid. This way it forces the people to feel it more directly in their pocket book which will force them to force the federal government to get its spending under control. Unfortunately due to tragedy of the commons you have all these braindead coastal liberals who think that deficits dont matter and cant see the connection between $5 beef, $15000 health insurance premiums, and federal deficits.

 

[fskimospy]

This is what states should be doing. Force that money to be paid directly by the taxpayer, instead of simply running up a deficit on the federal level which will never be paid. This way it forces the people to feel it more directly in their pocket book which will force them to force the federal government to get its spending under control. Unfortunately due to tragedy of the commons you have all these braindead coastal liberals who think that deficits dont matter and cant see the connection between $5 beef, $15000 health insurance premiums, and federal deficits.

Federal deficits have been very high in recent years and inflation has been very low. Maybe you are the one that doesn't understand inflation.

 

[Sonikku]

This is what states should be doing. Force that money to be paid directly by the taxpayer, instead of simply running up a deficit on the federal level which will never be paid. This way it forces the people to feel it more directly in their pocket book which will force them to force the federal government to get its spending under control. Unfortunately due to tragedy of the commons you have all these braindead coastal liberals who think that deficits dont matter and cant see the connection between $5 beef, $15000 health insurance premiums, and federal deficits.

Damn braindead liberals thinking deficits don't matter. Wish we could go back to the days of fiscal responsibility under Dubya and Reagan.

 

[rudder]

This is what states should be doing. Force that money to be paid directly by the taxpayer, instead of simply running up a deficit on the federal level which will never be paid. This way it forces the people to feel it more directly in their pocket book which will force them to force the federal government to get its spending under control. Unfortunately due to tragedy of the commons you have all these braindead coastal liberals who think that deficits dont matter and cant see the connection between $5 beef, $15000 health insurance premiums, and federal deficits.

fool.... everyone knows Federal money is freeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

 

[kage69]

All this makes sense when you think of it as a culture war instead of a policy war.

Just look at all the Republican candidates pushing for budget busting tax cuts after spending 8 years talking about how deficits will ruin our children. They don't care what things cost, they care about the culture war.

Precisely THIS.

 

[Jhhnn]

This is what states should be doing. Force that money to be paid directly by the taxpayer, instead of simply running up a deficit on the federal level which will never be paid. This way it forces the people to feel it more directly in their pocket book which will force them to force the federal government to get its spending under control. Unfortunately due to tragedy of the commons you have all these braindead coastal liberals who think that deficits dont matter and cant see the connection between $5 beef, $15000 health insurance premiums, and federal deficits.

Funny that. Rational analysis reveals that Obamacare repeal would increase deficits-

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stancol...port-shows-deficit-and-debt-are-phony-issues/

You demonstrate a lack of rationality making claims to the contrary.

 

[Jhhnn]

Damn braindead liberals thinking deficits don't matter. Wish we could go back to the days of fiscal responsibility under Dubya and Reagan.

Bada-bing! Deficits don't matter to Repubs when they're created by military spending or tax cuts.

 

[Joepublic2]

This is what states should be doing. Force that money to be paid directly by the taxpayer, instead of simply running up a deficit on the federal level which will never be paid. This way it forces the people to feel it more directly in their pocket book which will force them to force the federal government to get its spending under control. Unfortunately due to tragedy of the commons you have all these braindead coastal liberals who think that deficits dont matter and cant see the connection between $5 beef, $15000 health insurance premiums, and federal deficits.

Blah blah blah. What do you think happens when somebody that may have been able to afford insurance but lives in a state that didn't expand the ACA? They don't just sit around waiting to die, they go to the ER uninsured and when (or if, we're assuming they just didn't give a stolen SSN/info to the hospital) the bill comes they ignore it. When you're poor, earn most of your money money under the table and don't have credit to speak of in the first place there's really no incentive to pay some gargantuan hospital bill. What are they going to do, wreck your credit that doesn't exist? All turning this down gas done is shift the debt burden off of the federal govt (healthcare subsidizes) and placed it onto the local communities/hospitals which is absolutely retarded from a financial standpoint.

 

[MagickMan]

Bada-bing! Deficits don't matter to Repubs when they're created by military spending or tax cuts.

"The Repugs did stupid shit for years, then it was our turn!"

That's what you're saying. *facepalm*

 

[Jhhnn]

"The Repugs did stupid shit for years, then it was our turn!"

That's what you're saying. *facepalm*

Hardly. RR/GHWB quadrupled the debt. GWB doubled it again over 8 years.

No modern Dem Admin has even come close to that.

 

[woolfe9998]

"The Repugs did stupid shit for years, then it was our turn!"

That's what you're saying. *facepalm*

Straw man. What he actually said is that republicans are hypocrites for not criticizing deficits when caused by policies they like. He didn't offer an opinion about the appropriateness of deficits in any situation. What you're doing is imputing to him the mirror of the position he criticizing, but he didn't take that position. He only criticized the inconsistency on the right.

 

[MagickMan]

Hardly. RR/GHWB quadrupled the debt. GWB doubled it again over 8 years.

No modern Dem Admin has even come close to that.

Liar, liar.

 

[MagickMan]

Straw man. What he actually said is that republicans are hypocrites for not criticizing deficits when caused by policies they like. He didn't offer an opinion about the appropriateness of deficits in any situation. What you're doing is imputing to him the mirror of the position he criticizing, but he didn't take that position. He only criticized the inconsistency on the right.

The Repub deficits were small by comparison, sport.

 

[realibrad]

All this makes sense when you think of it as a culture war instead of a policy war.

Just look at all the Republican candidates pushing for budget busting tax cuts after spending 8 years talking about how deficits will ruin our children. They don't care what things cost, they care about the culture war.

If the right is in a culture war, then so is the left. The right pushes for policies that benefit those they think should be benefited which are those not at the bottom. The left pushes for policies that benefit those they think are taken advantage of, which is the bottom at the expense of the top. Its harder to defend the right as they tend to be dicks about it. The left more often then not thinks what they are pushing for is the compassionate course, where the right's view is that its all the bottoms fault. To me, both are still wrong, but at least one has its heart in the right place.

 

[realibrad]

The Repub deficits were small by comparison, sport.

Excluding Obama, not so much. I am one for rational though, and your claim has some holes in it. The Republicans were in control for a very long time. While they were running deficits, they were also putting into place policies that lead to the deficits during Obama. Further, many of the things that happened under Obama were things set before he took office. TARP is a great example.

If you want to point out where dems have run large deficits, thats easy, but to say the republican deficits were small in comparison takes a disconnect from reality and facts.

 

[MagickMan]

Excluding Obama, not so much.

He said, "No modern Dem", Obama is a "modern Dem". I was just pointing out his lie.

 

[Jhhnn]

The Repub deficits were small by comparison, sport.

Read it and weep-

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm

Those links have been posted many times in this forum. How you can hold belief to the contrary is truthiness.

 

[Jhhnn]

He said, "No modern Dem", Obama is a "modern Dem". I was just pointing out his lie.

If Obama manages to double the debt like GWB you'll have a point. Until then, it's just bullshit.

 

[Jhhnn]

If the right is in a culture war, then so is the left. The right pushes for policies that benefit those they think should be benefited which are those not at the bottom. The left pushes for policies that benefit those they think are taken advantage of, which is the bottom at the expense of the top. Its harder to defend the right as they tend to be dicks about it. The left more often then not thinks what they are pushing for is the compassionate course, where the right's view is that its all the bottoms fault. To me, both are still wrong, but at least one has its heart in the right place.

Please. The financial elite doesn't need anybody's help. Repub policy benefits them on paper & in terms of power but changes their lifestyles not at all. Their policies of wage suppression, benefit denial & shifting the tax burden down the scale have enormous real negative impact on millions of families.

Repubs doubl down on wasteful military spending adds insult to injury because our massive worldwide military footprint doesn't really protect this country so much as it protects the interests of our offshoring capitalists.

 

[MagickMan]

If Obama manages to double the debt like GWB you'll have a point. Until then, it's just bullshit.

You're right, going from $2T to 4T is bad, $4T to $8T is terrible, but somehow $11T to $18T is "better"? :\

"There are three degrees of comparison, it is said, in lying. There are lies, there are outrageous lies, and there are statistics."- Robert Giffen

 

[realibrad]

Please. The financial elite doesn't need anybody's help. Repub policy benefits them on paper & in terms of power but changes their lifestyles not at all. Their policies of wage suppression, benefit denial & shifting the tax burden down the scale have enormous real negative impact on millions of families.

Repubs doubl down on wasteful military spending adds insult to injury because our massive worldwide military footprint doesn't really protect this country so much as it protects the interests of our offshoring capitalists.

There are many policies that the left has pushed for that are harmful to the bottom too. I think your response shows exactly what I explained as well. You on the Left say that the top does not need help so taking away from them is fine to help the bottom. How is that not a culture bias?

Again, I would say the Left has their heart in the right place, vs the left that justify their actions that make themselves better off, but neither side is absent from trying to culturally divide people based on wealth.