Red Card/Blue Card and Voting Against Your Own Interests

[soulcougher73]

I'm sure this idea cant be the first time it's ever been floated, but it's the first time I've heard it. I have to say, I'm not opposed to it. Let everyone live THEIR vote.

Hopefully this video short from facebook will work correctly here. It's less than 2 mins.

EDIT: Link Fixed:

41.686 Reaktionen · 151 Mal geteilt | Wild concept but a two president system could be radical. TT📼: thedarkleft | Dana Hawes

Wild concept but a two president system could be radical. TT📼: thedarkleft.

www.facebook.com

 

[Indus]

I'm sure this idea cant be the first time it's ever been floated, but it's the first time I've heard it. I have to say, I'm not opposed to it. Let everyone live THEIR vote.

Hopefully this video short from facebook will work correctly here. It's less than 2 mins.

Facebook

www.facebook.com

 

[soulcougher73]

View attachment 126422

Try now? Copied the link from a different section. Link was different so hoping this one works.

 

[Indus]

That is already the case in the balkans..

I support it!

 

[HomerJS]

Something the Big beautiful Bill

 

[Greenman]

I'm sure this idea cant be the first time it's ever been floated, but it's the first time I've heard it. I have to say, I'm not opposed to it. Let everyone live THEIR vote.

Hopefully this video short from facebook will work correctly here. It's less than 2 mins.

EDIT: Link Fixed:

41.686 Reaktionen · 151 Mal geteilt | Wild concept but a two president system could be radical. TT📼: thedarkleft | Dana Hawes

Wild concept but a two president system could be radical. TT📼: thedarkleft.

www.facebook.com

There is nothing like the joy of punishing those that don't support your political beliefs. The smug superiority that comes from knowing how much better we are than those other stupid people.
Hurting them is actually doing them a favor. If we hurt them enough they'll eventually understand that doing what their betters tell them is the proper way to live.

 

[JD50]

There is nothing like the joy of punishing those that don't support your political beliefs. The smug superiority that comes from knowing how much better we are than those other stupid people.
Hurting them is actually doing them a favor. If we hurt them enough they'll eventually understand that doing what their betters tell them is the proper way to live.

Reminder this is the guy who wants white collar workers to lose their jobs so they're forced into "real American" blue collar jobs that they don't want to work, because he thinks blue collar workers are better than white collar workers.

 

[repoman0]

If we hurt them enough they'll eventually understand that doing what their betters tell them is the proper way to live.

Nope, keep voting to give me tax cuts please. Reminder also that Biden sent the majority of IRA money to red states and you morons voted to take it away from yourselves and close down your own hospitals. You’re hurting yourselves while voting for the economically productive to keep their money. Keep it up and never change!

 

[K1052]

Reminder this is the guy who wants white collar workers to lose their jobs so they're forced into "real American" blue collar jobs that they don't want to work, because he thinks blue collar workers are better than white collar workers.

And he's a layabout. Senior citizens sucking on the government tit can do many valuable jobs. You aren't dead yet buddy so back to work.

 

[soulcougher73]

There is nothing like the joy of punishing those that don't support your political beliefs. The smug superiority that comes from knowing how much better we are than those other stupid people.
Hurting them is actually doing them a favor. If we hurt them enough they'll eventually understand that doing what their betters tell them is the proper way to live.

The point is they are punishing themselves with THEIR political beliefs. The point of this thought experiment is to let them live the vote/belief they want.

 

[Paratus]

There is nothing like the joy of punishing those that don't support your political beliefs. The smug superiority that comes from knowing how much better we are than those other stupid people.
Hurting them is actually doing them a favor. If we hurt them enough they'll eventually understand that doing what their betters tell them is the proper way to live.

Personally my preferred policies are ones that increase the health, wealth, education of the general populace while protecting their individual freedoms, upholding the law and maintaining the US position as a leader in scientific research, military capabilities, and diplomacy.

You made a great point that the bulk of the conservatives in this country actively couldn’t care less about liberal policies like that and so don’t vote for them.

And congratulations! You got your policy preferences! Trump is out of any legal problems he had. Trump is making huge sums of money from markets he influences and his law suits. Anyone who can’t pass for a white American is being nabbed by masked ICE agents or are at risk of being so. Federal workers are retiring or being fired so services from FEMA, NOAA, HHS, VA etc will be restricted or not available. Medicaid is on a the cusp of being gutted too.

It’s a total win for your policies. Now there is a cost for these policies but they are inline with your desired policies. We know red states are the least educated, poorest and sickest in the country, with life spans being up to 15 years shorter than the best blues states.

Your preferred policy changes should accelerate this divide. It’s a good trade I think. Conservatives wanting a rich imperial president and especially poor rural conservatives are going to pay for it with their money, health, and shortened life spans. That’s an appropriate cost I think.

You’ll be owning the libs for a (short) generation!

 

[fskimospy]

The point is they are punishing themselves with THEIR political beliefs. The point of this thought experiment is to let them live the vote/belief they want.

It is kind of amusing that the right wing victim complex is so strong that saying conservatives should get exactly what they claim to want is viewed as an attack on them, most likely because even conservatives understand how disastrous their policies are, they are just too tribal to admit the liberals were right all along.

 

[Moonbeam]

There is nothing like the joy of punishing those that don't support your political beliefs. The smug superiority that comes from knowing how much better we are than those other stupid people.
Hurting them is actually doing them a favor. If we hurt them enough they'll eventually understand that doing what their betters tell them is the proper way to live.

Again, if you find people who act contemptuously to be contemptuous for that contempt, you are doing the same thing.

They are saying people who vote to harm themselves are contemptuous in part because self harm is evil and should not happen and in part because voting to harm yourself, whether a person knows it or not, may also be evil because it harms more than just oneself.

So we see that liberals who believe that conservatives by voting for self harm are immoral, whether they know it or not. This to them is justified contempt. They hate such evil.

Conservatives, on the other hand, as you expressed here, feel that such hateful contempt toward conservative is itself the real issue. Anybody who is contemptuously hateful and willing to dump that on them is the evil infecting the country.

So we have the contemptuous of self harmers on the one hand, and the contemptuous of contempt filled people on the other duking it out.

For me, however, what I see as the relevant issue is whether what one votes for is better or worse for society generally.

Where should the focus be? It should be on whether we are voting for making life better or worse, no? I can do nothing about liberal contempt for conservatives or conservative contempt for liberals than to say that in my opinion they are full of contempt. The moment I find either or both contemptible I join them.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Good luck with that. But to harbor contempt, if one is aware of the evil nature of hatred, will make you contemptible in your own eyes, and that’s the real problem to me. We cane to the table already feeling contempt for ourselves. If we could deal with that all this absurdity would cease to exist.

 

[Moonbeam]

It is kind of amusing that the right wing victim complex is so strong that saying conservatives should get exactly what they claim to want is viewed as an attack on them, most likely because even conservatives understand how disastrous their policies are, they are just too tribal to admit the liberals were right all along.

I know that you often use the term amusing to describe their behavior. When I look at myself as posting using that term, I would and have done similarly so in the past as to indicate a level of indifference, to express my elevation above the world of emotional involvement where anything they might believe would have any negative effect on me like causing me to hate their guts for their stupidity. I am just to evolved to feel contempt, my ego wants to say. But a part of me does not trust that or believe it, although I appreciate it as actually superior to open disdain. Nevertheless, it seems to me that no emotional reaction at all to the unconscious desires of others to destroy their own well being is a more objective response because how can you blame someone who destroys themself unconsciously not knowing they do so because they hide the feelings that they deserve nothing better, which is what I believe is going on. What seems to me to be missing is that we have not learned to forgive, that to really forgive requires conscious awareness of so much that causes pain. The pain that people have done to us in their sleep is just so great.

Naturally, on the other side of the coin, if someone is bent on self destruction by imminent threat to others, like killers, suicide bombers etc, if only deadly force is able to stop them, then that is what should be used. My opinion.

 

[Greenman]

Again, if you find people who act contemptuously to be contemptuous for that contempt, you are doing the same thing.

They are saying people who vote to harm themselves are contemptuous in part because self harm is evil and should not happen and in part because voting to harm yourself, whether a person knows it or not, may also be evil because it harms more than just oneself.

So we see that liberals who believe that conservatives by voting for self harm are immoral, whether they know it or not. This to them is justified contempt. They hate such evil.

Conservatives, on the other hand, as you expressed here, feel that such hateful contempt toward conservative is itself the real issue. Anybody who is contemptuously hateful and willing to dump that on them is the evil infecting the country.

So we have the contemptuous of self harmers on the one hand, and the contemptuous of contempt filled people on the other duking it out.

For me, however, what I see as the relevant issue is whether what one votes for is better or worse for society generally.

Where should the focus be? It should be on whether we are voting for making life better or worse, no? I can do nothing about liberal contempt for conservatives or conservative contempt for liberals than to say that in my opinion they are full of contempt. The moment I find either or both contemptible I join them.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Good luck with that. But to harbor contempt, if one is aware of the evil nature of hatred, will make you contemptible in your own eyes, and that’s the real problem to me. We cane to the table already feeling contempt for ourselves. If we could deal with that all this absurdity would cease to exist.

It's almost the same thing, the difference being that it's not a full time job for me. I don't have to go find examples of the behavior I dislike and post them so like minded people will approve of me. I'll also admit that it is a bit small of me, but so many here are so righteous about their contempt I sometimes can't help but poke them.
The oddest thing about it all is that I don't hate the far left. I don't wish them ill and have no desire to see them harmed. That really is the fundamental difference between me and many of the posters here.

 

[IronWing]

That really is the fundamental difference between me and many of the posters here.

That and you're a treasonous Nazi.

 

[fskimospy]

It's almost the same thing, the difference being that it's not a full time job for me. I don't have to go find examples of the behavior I dislike and post them so like minded people will approve of me. I'll also admit that it is a bit small of me, but so many here are so righteous about their contempt I sometimes can't help but poke them.
The oddest thing about it all is that I don't hate the far left. I don't wish them ill and have no desire to see them harmed. That really is the fundamental difference between me and many of the posters here.

You do celebrate them losing their jobs though because you don't approve of the type of work they do. I imagine they view that as being harmed.

A warning that white collar jobs loss of 10 to 20 percent is imminent due to AI.

https://www.mensjournal.com/news/lowes-ceo-marvin-ellison-artificial-intelligence-warning But what about further into the future? What will the world look like when few people will be mended to think? The problem as I see it is that AI in our world is privately held, privately developed and...

forums.anandtech.com

 

[HomerJS]

It's almost the same thing, the difference being that it's not a full time job for me. I don't have to go find examples of the behavior I dislike and post them so like minded people will approve of me. I'll also admit that it is a bit small of me, but so many here are so righteous about their contempt I sometimes can't help but poke them.
The oddest thing about it all is that I don't hate the far left. I don't wish them ill and have no desire to see them harmed. That really is the fundamental difference between me and many of the posters here.

It's quite the opposite you just don't have the stones to do it yourself. That's why you heap so much praise on the guy who does it for you while using dishonesty to defend it.

 

[brycejones]

You do celebrate them losing their jobs though because you don't approve of the type of work they do. I imagine they view that as being harmed.

A warning that white collar jobs loss of 10 to 20 percent is imminent due to AI.

https://www.mensjournal.com/news/lowes-ceo-marvin-ellison-artificial-intelligence-warning But what about further into the future? What will the world look like when few people will be mended to think? The problem as I see it is that AI in our world is privately held, privately developed and...

forums.anandtech.com

Who he?

 

[fskimospy]

I know that you often use the term amusing to describe their behavior. When I look at myself as posting using that term, I would and have done similarly so in the past as to indicate a level of indifference, to express my elevation above the world of emotional involvement where anything they might believe would have any negative effect on me like causing me to hate their guts for their stupidity. I am just to evolved to feel contempt, my ego wants to say. But a part of me does not trust that or believe it, although I appreciate it as actually superior to open disdain. Nevertheless, it seems to me that no emotional reaction at all to the unconscious desires of others to destroy their own well being is a more objective response because how can you blame someone who destroys themself unconsciously not knowing they do so because they hide the feelings that they deserve nothing better, which is what I believe is going on. What seems to me to be missing is that we have not learned to forgive, that to really forgive requires conscious awareness of so much that causes pain. The pain that people have done to us in their sleep is just so great.

Naturally, on the other side of the coin, if someone is bent on self destruction by imminent threat to others, like killers, suicide bombers etc, if only deadly force is able to stop them, then that is what should be used. My opinion.

To be clear I have a pretty significant level of disdain for nearly everyone in the modern American conservative movement. It's not because of a political disagreement as several of my close friends were/are quite conservative by the standards of supporting traditional cultural values, lower taxes and smaller government, etc. I don't like their policies but I like the people quite a lot.

The issue now I believe is much more of a cultural and emotional one. Modern American conservatism celebrates performative cruelty, obvious lies, willful immorality, and a rejection of facts as a basis for a common understanding of reality. So when I say I'm amused by this sort of bad faith dishonesty I do find it funny on one level as it's so childish and amateurish, but on many other levels I have nothing but contempt.

 

[Pens1566]

To be clear I have a pretty significant level of disdain for nearly everyone in the modern American conservative movement. It's not because of a political disagreement as several of my close friends were/are quite conservative by the standards of supporting traditional cultural values, lower taxes and smaller government, etc. I don't like their policies but I like the people quite a lot.

The issue now I believe is much more of a cultural and emotional one. Modern American conservatism celebrates performative cruelty, obvious lies, willful immorality, and a rejection of facts as a basis for a common understanding of reality. So when I say I'm amused by this sort of bad faith dishonesty I do find it funny on one level as it's so childish and amateurish, but on many other levels I have nothing but contempt.

So, one could say they're "deplorable"?

 

[fskimospy]

So, one could say they're "deplorable"?

It's sad how accurately Hillary Clinton had this movement pegged. She really was right about almost everything but people were too stupid to see it.

 

[nOOky]

It's not really voting against your own interests when you know what your vote will produce. I have zero sympathy for people that don't learn from past mistakes and experiences. I have zero sympathy for people that seem "really nice" when you talk to them, but they are not smart enough to educate themselves on the rest of society around them and what their political party actually accomplishes. I have sympathy for folks that are stuck in a situation that they cannot easily get out of and have to suffer under the horrible conservative policies.

I used to think it was all about education, but it's really more about empathy and personal responsibility. If you are a traditional conservative and you don't speak out against MAGA on the internet and in your public and personal life, you're a piece of shit, sorry that happened to you.

 

[Moonbeam]

It's not really voting against your own interests when you know what your vote will produce. I have zero sympathy for people that don't learn from past mistakes and experiences. I have zero sympathy for people that seem "really nice" when you talk to them, but they are not smart enough to educate themselves on the rest of society around them and what their political party actually accomplishes. I have sympathy for folks that are stuck in a situation that they cannot easily get out of and have to suffer under the horrible conservative policies.

I used to think it was all about education, but it's really more about empathy and personal responsibility. If you are a traditional conservative and you don't speak out against MAGA on the internet and in your public and personal life, you're a piece of shit, sorry that happened to you.

Why wouldn’t you have the most sympathy for just that type. They are pretty much the farthest gone. Isn’t it because you blame them and attribute their behavior to stupidity and moral inferiority? I bet they think you are the one who is morally inferior and they blame you for that. Yow do you prove you are superior to somebody else than the deep sense you are right and they are wrong exactly as they believe in reverse. What you share, I think, is a communality of blame. Each blames the other.

Blamers blame and that’s as far as they ever get because each side is ego defined by what they are for and against. In this way the ego is satisfied. I am the good guy and you are not. Is there any other form of self respect, like maybe there is something beyond within you that adheres to being genetically human?

 

[Moonbeam]

It's sad how accurately Hillary Clinton had this movement pegged. She really was right about almost everything but people were too stupid to see it.

I rather think they were too defensive to feel it. The first thing that happens to people who call others deplorable is that they will fail to see how much like what they attribute to others is like how they are too. A secondary effect is that all that deplorable hate will come flying specifically back at you. A third effect is that you will put a target on your back causing your to be counterslandered for years and years and acquire in the process a reputation as a worthless person that will follow you to the polling station.

What makes people deplorable is that they are unconsciously motivated by self hate and the only think that can bring change, in my opinion is an inner decision to do better. Nobody wants to know they hate themselves but the will to hate the world over real self love faced as our inner reality opens the possibility for change and has to precede it. The door to heaven is accessed through hell as a
We see in worldwide archetypal myth.