Red and processed meat linked to heart disease, mega study says

[Kaido]

They tracked 1.4 million people over 30 years:

Red and processed meat linked to heart disease, mega study says | CNN

Eating beef, lamb, pork and processed meats will increase your risk of coronary heart disease later in life, but poultry doesn't appear to raise risk, the largest review of all large-scale studies to date revealed.

www.cnn.com

Coronary artery disease is the leading cause of death & disability globally. TL;DR:

1. The risk for coronary heart disease increased as the amount of meat eaten increased
2. For each 1.75oz of beef, lamb, and pork, the risk went up 9%
3. For each 1.75oz of processed meats (bacon, ham, sausage), the risk went up 18%

Additional notes:

1. There appears to be no correlation to poultry (chicken & turkey)
2. Plant-based diets are ranked highest for being healthy
3. The Ornish diet is supposedly the only scientifically-proven program to reverse heart disease in a random clinical trial without drugs or surgery

I always take stuff like this with a grain of salt, no matter how big the study is. 1.4 million people for 30 years? Did they self-report? Did they track every meal every day for 30 years? What other contributing factors were there? I do think this is a pretty interesting article given the scale of it. I currently like Michael Pollen's advice of "eat food, mostly plants, not too much", which means eat real, whole foods, eat more veggies, and don't over-eat. My core approach currently is IIFYM. I still enjoy BK Whoppers & Snickers bars from time to time, but I also cook a lot more at home these days using "real" ingredients as opposed to ultra-processed ingredients all the time.

I figure we're all going to die someday, so for me right now it's about finding a balance between enjoying life & doing things that will keep me alive longer & help me feel good along the way. I've done various restrictive diets in the past (keto, paleo, vegetarian, vegan, raw vegan, gluten-free vegan, fruitarian, etc.) & always end up back on an omnivore diet. I feel the best eating according to my macros, regardless of food source. I tend to feel better eating real, whole foods, in general, but I've learned to stop villifying sugar (I use it in moderation), fast food (I enjoy this as a treat), etc.

This article did get me to think about how much red meat I eat. I mostly eat chicken (convenient, versatile, and cheap!) but enjoy homemade burgers (ground beef) & pizza (processed pepperoni) weekly, steaks once in awhile, etc. Studies are hard because some studies have the opposite data - some say too much fish is bad for you, some say any oil is bad for you, etc. For example, some experts claim even olive oil isn't a health food:

Why Olive Oil Isn’t a Health Food

Most people have heard that olive oil is healthy. This belief comes from the presence of olive oil in the Mediterranean diet, but is it really true?

www.forksoverknives.com

If you have 20 minutes to spare, check out the Blue Zones TED Talk:

How to live to be 100+

To find the path to long life and health, Dan Buettner and team study the world's "Blue Zones," communities whose elders live with vim and vigor to record-setting age. In his talk, he shares the 9 common diet and lifestyle habits that keep them spry past age 100.

www.ted.com

It has some pretty interesting information on how people live to be a hundred years old, including some good insights on diet!

 

[paperfist]

Seems like the more and more I read it's plant based diets that win the day and has the ability to repair the body.

So no oil consumption is good? It's sure good for my poo

 

[pauldun170]

They tracked 1.4 million people over 30 years:

Red and processed meat linked to heart disease, mega study says | CNN

Eating beef, lamb, pork and processed meats will increase your risk of coronary heart disease later in life, but poultry doesn't appear to raise risk, the largest review of all large-scale studies to date revealed.

www.cnn.com

Coronary artery disease is the leading cause of death & disability globally. TL;DR:

1. The risk for coronary heart disease increased as the amount of meat eaten increased
2. For each 1.75oz of beef, lamb, and pork, the risk went up 9%
3. For each 1.75oz of processed meats (bacon, ham, sausage), the risk went up 18%

Additional notes:

1. There appears to be no correlation to poultry (chicken & turkey)
2. Plant-based diets are ranked highest for being healthy
3. The Ornish diet is supposedly the only scientifically-proven program to reverse heart disease in a random clinical trial without drugs or surgery

I always take stuff like this with a grain of salt, no matter how big the study is. 1.4 million people for 30 years? Did they self-report? Did they track every meal every day for 30 years? What other contributing factors were there? I do think this is a pretty interesting article given the scale of it. I currently like Michael Pollen's advice of "eat food, mostly plants, not too much", which means eat real, whole foods, eat more veggies, and don't over-eat. My core approach currently is IIFYM. I still enjoy BK Whoppers & Snickers bars from time to time, but I also cook a lot more at home these days using "real" ingredients as opposed to ultra-processed ingredients all the time.

I figure we're all going to die someday, so for me right now it's about finding a balance between enjoying life & doing things that will keep me alive longer & help me feel good along the way. I've done various restrictive diets in the past (keto, paleo, vegetarian, vegan, raw vegan, gluten-free vegan, fruitarian, etc.) & always end up back on an omnivore diet. I feel the best eating according to my macros, regardless of food source. I tend to feel better eating real, whole foods, in general, but I've learned to stop villifying sugar (I use it in moderation), fast food (I enjoy this as a treat), etc.

This article did get me to think about how much red meat I eat. I mostly eat chicken (convenient, versatile, and cheap!) but enjoy homemade burgers (ground beef) & pizza (processed pepperoni) weekly, steaks once in awhile, etc. Studies are hard because some studies have the opposite data - some say too much fish is bad for you, some say any oil is bad for you, etc. For example, some experts claim even olive oil isn't a health food:

Why Olive Oil Isn’t a Health Food

Most people have heard that olive oil is healthy. This belief comes from the presence of olive oil in the Mediterranean diet, but is it really true?

www.forksoverknives.com

If you have 20 minutes to spare, check out the Blue Zones TED Talk:

How to live to be 100+

To find the path to long life and health, Dan Buettner and team study the world's "Blue Zones," communities whose elders live with vim and vigor to record-setting age. In his talk, he shares the 9 common diet and lifestyle habits that keep them spry past age 100.

www.ted.com

It has some pretty interesting information on how people live to be a hundred years old, including some good insights on diet!

Isn't this old news?
Studies showing red meat's link to heart disease and cancer have been around for years.
Hell, 30 years ago we already knew that red meat consumption was linked to Colon cancer and I thought red meats link to heart disease was already well established for decades.

 

[Kaido]

Isn't this old news?
Studies showing red meat's link to heart disease and cancer have been around for years.
Hell, 30 years ago we already knew that red meat consumption was linked to Colon cancer and I thought red meats link to heart disease was already well established for decades.

I think it's sort of like smoking cigarettes...they're dialing in more & more for public awareness. It's interesting to note that the culinary definition of red meat is different than the nutritional definition, which includes pork as red meat:

Red meat - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That wikipedia article has an interesting entry for processed meat:

Processed meat See also: Processed meat

In 2015, the International Agency for Research on Cancer of the World Health Organization (WHO) classified processed meat as carcinogenic to humans (Group 1), based on "sufficient evidence in humans that the consumption of processed meat causes colorectal cancer."[18] Processed meat is that which has undergone salting, curing, fermentation, smoking, or other processes to enhance flavor or improve preservation.[19] It includes bacon, ham, salami, pepperoni, hot dogs, and some sausages. Most processed meat contains at least some red meat.[19]

Nitrates and nitrites found in processed meat can be converted by the human body into nitrosamines that can be carcinogenic, causing mutation in the colorectal cell line, thereby causing tumorigenesis and eventually leading to cancer.[20] In its Press Release 240 (16 Oct. 2015) the International Agency for Research on Cancer, based on a review of 800 studies over 20 years, concluded that processed meat is definitely carcinogenic (Group 1) and found that for each additional 50g of processed meat consumed per day, the risk of colorectal cancer increased by 18% (up to a maximum of approximately 140g);[21] it also found that there appeared to be an increase in gastric cancer but this was not as clear.[22]

A 2016 literature review found that for the each additional 50g per day of processed meat consumed, the risk increased 4% for total prostate cancer, 8% for cancer mortality, 9% for breast cancer, 18% for colorectal cancer, 19% for pancreatic cancer, 13% for stroke, 24% for cardiovascular mortality and 32% for diabetes.[23]

So whereas red meat is classified as "probably carcinogenic", processed meat IS carcinogenic to humans. Which is a bummer because I love grilling & smoking meat haha!

 

[Kaido]

Seems like the more and more I read it's plant based diets that win the day and has the ability to repair the body.

So no oil consumption is good? It's sure good for my poo

I've become a big fan of fasting over the years, and plant-based diets are probably way healthier for us than eating a ton of meat all the time haha.

 

[pauldun170]

I think it's sort of like smoking cigarettes...they're dialing in more & more for public awareness. It's interesting to note that the culinary definition of red meat is different than the nutritional definition, which includes pork as red meat:

Red meat - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That wikipedia article has an interesting entry for processed meat:



So whereas red meat is classified as "probably carcinogenic", processed meat IS carcinogenic to humans. Which is a bummer because I love grilling & smoking meat haha!

It's been so long since I started shunning red meat and garbage processed food I've lost track of what specifically got me to pass on it.
I'm glad I paid attention back in the 90's when they told people "Red Meat - > colon cancer and heart attacks"
Most of my diet consists of birds, greens and fish.....and tostitos. Damn you tostitos

 

[paperfist]

I've become a big fan of fasting over the years, and plant-based diets are probably way healthier for us than eating a ton of meat all the time haha.

But then there’s the pesticides and lack of soil nutrients issue

I’m giving it a try though as I eat way too much junk. Also more grains and nuts. The trick though seems to be my brain says oh nice you ate a bowl of oats, but that can’t fill you up like a double cheese burger, eat more!

 

[Torn Mind]

Links are links. But how does lobbying affect outcomes. But about 30 years ago, the lobbyist's travesty called the "food pyramid" came into being and trans fats weren't too far behind. That partially hydrogenated veggie would be used when steaks are cooked by frying.

People might also be eating fried chicken, Twinkies, pasta, etc along with the red meats. They also might have rather large appetites in general.

Method of preparation might also be a factor. Red meat boiled for soup might have a difference effect than red meat fried.

Uncured bacon might be just fine since the nitrates are not there.

Certain plants are better than others. Cellulose scrapers are great. Fruits can go to hell.

Funny thing is that carbs have yet to really enter taboo territory.

I frankly have a body that's wired such that no one thing can make me function. Going heavy on the meats...actually tires me out and I lose appetite for it. I am a bit of a sweets addict, but eating carbs alone tends make me start feeling "lacking" and repetitively hungry. Regardless, it's very hard to control, since I try to stick to a "dental abscess avoidance diet" but I've caved numerous times eating ice cream, sweet fruits, pastries, etc or getting the craving for chocolate eclairs, or that breaded fried chicken. Vegetables are weird with me. I'll willingly eat them in prepacakaged salads...but it's like I have no will to prepare them alone. Although bok choy with salt, I'll eat.

 

[mike8675309]

Seems like the more and more I read it's plant based diets that win the day and has the ability to repair the body.

So no oil consumption is good? It's sure good for my poo

It's not that a plant-based diet repairs the body, it's that the plant-based diet helps promote the systems in our bodies that repair themselves. They have recently come to a clear understanding that everyone one of us is developing cancer every single moment of our life. And our immune system clears it nearly all the time. Animal products have things in them that reduce our body's ability to repair themselves, increasing the risk for the bad things to not get cleared out.

 

[paperfist]

It's not that a plant-based diet repairs the body, it's that the plant-based diet helps promote the systems in our bodies that repair themselves. They have recently come to a clear understanding that everyone one of us is developing cancer every single moment of our life. And our immune system clears it nearly all the time. Animal products have things in them that reduce our body's ability to repair themselves, increasing the risk for the bad things to not get cleared out.

You're right. I've been reading this book called How Not To Die that says just that, when you feed your body the right nutrients it allows it's systems to run correctly.

That sound pretty scary if that's how cancer works. I don't imagine while meat we consume is cooked that eating another animals problems is great for our own body.

 

[Kaido]

It's not that a plant-based diet repairs the body, it's that the plant-based diet helps promote the systems in our bodies that repair themselves. They have recently come to a clear understanding that everyone one of us is developing cancer every single moment of our life. And our immune system clears it nearly all the time. Animal products have things in them that reduce our body's ability to repair themselves, increasing the risk for the bad things to not get cleared out.

I got into long-term fasting in the past few years after learning about all of this stuff. It's amazing how much we decay naturally, and also amazing at how our bodies can naturally repair themselves!

 

[IGBT]

They tracked 1.4 million people over 30 years:

Red and processed meat linked to heart disease, mega study says | CNN

Eating beef, lamb, pork and processed meats will increase your risk of coronary heart disease later in life, but poultry doesn't appear to raise risk, the largest review of all large-scale studies to date revealed.

www.cnn.com

Coronary artery disease is the leading cause of death & disability globally. TL;DR:

1. The risk for coronary heart disease increased as the amount of meat eaten increased
2. For each 1.75oz of beef, lamb, and pork, the risk went up 9%
3. For each 1.75oz of processed meats (bacon, ham, sausage), the risk went up 18%

Additional notes:

1. There appears to be no correlation to poultry (chicken & turkey)
2. Plant-based diets are ranked highest for being healthy
3. The Ornish diet is supposedly the only scientifically-proven program to reverse heart disease in a random clinical trial without drugs or surgery

I always take stuff like this with a grain of salt, no matter how big the study is. 1.4 million people for 30 years? Did they self-report? Did they track every meal every day for 30 years? What other contributing factors were there? I do think this is a pretty interesting article given the scale of it. I currently like Michael Pollen's advice of "eat food, mostly plants, not too much", which means eat real, whole foods, eat more veggies, and don't over-eat. My core approach currently is IIFYM. I still enjoy BK Whoppers & Snickers bars from time to time, but I also cook a lot more at home these days using "real" ingredients as opposed to ultra-processed ingredients all the time.

I figure we're all going to die someday, so for me right now it's about finding a balance between enjoying life & doing things that will keep me alive longer & help me feel good along the way. I've done various restrictive diets in the past (keto, paleo, vegetarian, vegan, raw vegan, gluten-free vegan, fruitarian, etc.) & always end up back on an omnivore diet. I feel the best eating according to my macros, regardless of food source. I tend to feel better eating real, whole foods, in general, but I've learned to stop villifying sugar (I use it in moderation), fast food (I enjoy this as a treat), etc.

This article did get me to think about how much red meat I eat. I mostly eat chicken (convenient, versatile, and cheap!) but enjoy homemade burgers (ground beef) & pizza (processed pepperoni) weekly, steaks once in awhile, etc. Studies are hard because some studies have the opposite data - some say too much fish is bad for you, some say any oil is bad for you, etc. For example, some experts claim even olive oil isn't a health food:

Why Olive Oil Isn’t a Health Food

Most people have heard that olive oil is healthy. This belief comes from the presence of olive oil in the Mediterranean diet, but is it really true?

www.forksoverknives.com

If you have 20 minutes to spare, check out the Blue Zones TED Talk:

How to live to be 100+

To find the path to long life and health, Dan Buettner and team study the world's "Blue Zones," communities whose elders live with vim and vigor to record-setting age. In his talk, he shares the 9 common diet and lifestyle habits that keep them spry past age 100.

www.ted.com

It has some pretty interesting information on how people live to be a hundred years old, including some good insights on diet!

Rheumatoid Arthritis seems to be related to red meat / cheese / dairy consumption..it's a horrible disease with no good treatment solution. Non meat / non dairy consumers seem to fair better i.e. C Reactive Protein is held in check resulting in far less joint pain...something to consider if you have RA but still eat meat / dairy of any type..

 

[paperfist]

Rheumatoid Arthritis seems to be related to red meat / cheese / dairy consumption..it's a horrible disease with no good treatment solution. Non meat / non dairy consumers seem to fair better i.e. C Reactive Protein is held in check resulting in far less joint pain...something to consider if you have RA but still eat meat / dairy of any type..

Oh damn I'm screwed

 

[Scarpozzi]

I always take stuff like this with a grain of salt, no matter how big the study is.

You should. Salt has been linked to increased heart disease risk as well.

 

[Scarpozzi]

I got into long-term fasting in the past few years after learning about all of this stuff. It's amazing how much we decay naturally, and also amazing at how our bodies can naturally repair themselves!

How does long-term fasting work?

 

[Torn Mind]

The only thing convincingly strong is that nitrates and nitrites are no bueno for your bowels and other things. So, sorry cheap bacon, but we gotta move on to the uncured stuff now.

 

[igor_kavinski]

The best time to eat meat is in the morning or afternoon. Eating meat for dinner leads to a shorter lifespan, possibly because it interferes with the body's repair process during sleep.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I frankly have a body that's wired such that no one thing can make me function. Going heavy on the meats...actually tires me out and I lose appetite for it. I am a bit of a sweets addict, but eating carbs alone tends make me start feeling "lacking" and repetitively hungry. Regardless, it's very hard to control, since I try to stick to a "dental abscess avoidance diet" but I've caved numerous times eating ice cream, sweet fruits, pastries, etc or getting the craving for chocolate eclairs, or that breaded fried chicken. Vegetables are weird with me. I'll willingly eat them in prepacakaged salads...but it's like I have no will to prepare them alone. Although bok choy with salt, I'll eat.

Believe me, I understand your struggle. I used to have most of these issues. Used to be a total animal food and fast food junkie until my body couldn't take it anymore and it devolved into a myriad of health issues (liver damage, fatty liver, diabetes, always feeling tired syndrome and so on). I was forced to give up soft drinks / coffee / fast food etc. Now my subsistence is mainly fruits (always start a meal with a fruit), kale or broccoli salad, chickpea or beetroot hummus, rice, low fat camel milk, pistachios, pecans, walnuts and macadamia nuts. And sometimes I will have less than 100 grams of meat with rice.

Too much protein (which is what animal food usually is comprised of mostly) interferes with the body's mTor pathway for repair processes. Watch Veritasium's video on the topic of longevity. It's an eye-opener. The beauty of the foods that I'm now used to eating is that I don't crave the bad stuff anymore. Sure, I will sometimes eat icecream or cake with thick cream but I don't crave it. Something about eating fruit at the start of meals makes the body's sugar craving go away for good, methinks.

 

[igor_kavinski]

How does long-term fasting work?

Possibly long term alternate day fasting. I tried it for a few weeks and my body got used to it so well that I could hardly feel the hunger on fasting days. But me being a human, just got tired of following a routine that was good for my health and now I'm eating everyday again (taking a Cayenne pepper capsule after meals seems to help with my waist circumference. And if I still feel tight around the waist, I just drink milk only for dinner and the next day I feel much lighter and able to move more freely in my pants).

 

[Torn Mind]

Believe me, I understand your struggle. I used to have most of these issues. Used to be a total animal food and fast food junkie until my body couldn't take it anymore and it devolved into a myriad of health issues (liver damage, fatty liver, diabetes, always feeling tired syndrome and so on). I was forced to give up soft drinks / coffee / fast food etc. Now my subsistence is mainly fruits (always start a meal with a fruit), kale or broccoli salad, chickpea or beetroot hummus, rice, low fat camel milk, pistachios, pecans, walnuts and macadamia nuts. And sometimes I will have less than 100 grams of meat with rice.

Too much protein (which is what animal food usually is comprised of mostly) interferes with the body's mTor pathway for repair processes. Watch Veritasium's video on the topic of longevity. It's an eye-opener. The beauty of the foods that I'm now used to eating is that I don't crave the bad stuff anymore. Sure, I will sometimes eat icecream or cake with thick cream but I don't crave it. Something about eating fruit at the start of meals makes the body's sugar craving go away for good, methinks.

I have the metabolism of a champ and I never really could "over eat"; I can get full rather quickly. It's not exactly a point of pride to say that my weight is something a lot of women would fall into an eating disorder to obtain(120-130lbs and I'm 6 feet tall). Always constantly underweight and weak muscularly because I never had a consistent lifting regiment, but never did I intentionally starve myself or the like. Mom always kept me away from the usual genuine sugar horrors like candy and stuff but I did love my carbs. Pasta+pasta sauce. Hell, I even like ramen. I was "forced" into juices, which are better than soda but they still suck for teeth. Would drink Gatorade/Powerade. Being Chinese, foods like stir-fry has a cornstarch coating around meat, there's wontons and dumplings, glutinous rice pancakes, white rice and other cultural carb sources.


My problems, now that I have had to think about food and ruminate a bit, were that my sweets/carb tooth displaced other foods, I also had an affinity for certain acidic foods(looking at you, tomatoes), and I didn't keep up with dental hygiene to combat the damage from such a diet. I even managed to be Vitamin D deficient a couple years ago.

Come this year, the teeth neglect came to a head, then COVID made it worse because it "painkilled" it for another couple months. After the first cleaning, I got a painful abscess for the first time in my life, and that was the stimulant to implement some dietary "ideals" for myself, focused firstly on the preservation of teeth.

So, I realized that I would have to aim for a quasi-keto/diabetic diet and allow sweets only if a dental cleaning is imminent or at least I can wash away the materials quickly after eating. I couldn't keep it up this first go around and I had lapsed out of the faux-keto standards I intended for myself. Part of it was that some days I needed the energy for physical activity. I was also sick for most of July up until Aug 11 or something with a cold or flu. I was craving egg custard with this mystery illness(which wasn't COVID but felt like a cold) and I don't crave it now.

Even fruits, I now try to avoid many further gum damage.


Upon recently learning that P. gingivalis may have a causal effect on Alzheimer's(from Cortexyme stock popping in price, no less), it seems far too sensible to eat a primarily meat+veggie+other foods that help "good" mouth bacteria grow(like cheddar) from here on out.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Upon recently learning that P. gingivalis may have a causal effect on Alzheimer's(from Cortexyme stock popping in price, no less), it seems far too sensible to eat a primarily meat+veggie+other foods that help "good" mouth bacteria grow(like cheddar) from here on out.

Look into OraMD. Start with their regular strength and move to extra strength if you can handle the taste.