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Red and processed meat linked to heart disease, mega study says

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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They tracked 1.4 million people over 30 years:


Coronary artery disease is the leading cause of death & disability globally. TL;DR:

1. The risk for coronary heart disease increased as the amount of meat eaten increased
2. For each 1.75oz of beef, lamb, and pork, the risk went up 9%
3. For each 1.75oz of processed meats (bacon, ham, sausage), the risk went up 18%

Additional notes:

1. There appears to be no correlation to poultry (chicken & turkey)
2. Plant-based diets are ranked highest for being healthy
3. The Ornish diet is supposedly the only scientifically-proven program to reverse heart disease in a random clinical trial without drugs or surgery

I always take stuff like this with a grain of salt, no matter how big the study is. 1.4 million people for 30 years? Did they self-report? Did they track every meal every day for 30 years? What other contributing factors were there? I do think this is a pretty interesting article given the scale of it. I currently like Michael Pollen's advice of "eat food, mostly plants, not too much", which means eat real, whole foods, eat more veggies, and don't over-eat. My core approach currently is IIFYM. I still enjoy BK Whoppers & Snickers bars from time to time, but I also cook a lot more at home these days using "real" ingredients as opposed to ultra-processed ingredients all the time.

I figure we're all going to die someday, so for me right now it's about finding a balance between enjoying life & doing things that will keep me alive longer & help me feel good along the way. I've done various restrictive diets in the past (keto, paleo, vegetarian, vegan, raw vegan, gluten-free vegan, fruitarian, etc.) & always end up back on an omnivore diet. I feel the best eating according to my macros, regardless of food source. I tend to feel better eating real, whole foods, in general, but I've learned to stop villifying sugar (I use it in moderation), fast food (I enjoy this as a treat), etc.

This article did get me to think about how much red meat I eat. I mostly eat chicken (convenient, versatile, and cheap!) but enjoy homemade burgers (ground beef) & pizza (processed pepperoni) weekly, steaks once in awhile, etc. Studies are hard because some studies have the opposite data - some say too much fish is bad for you, some say any oil is bad for you, etc. For example, some experts claim even olive oil isn't a health food:


If you have 20 minutes to spare, check out the Blue Zones TED Talk:


It has some pretty interesting information on how people live to be a hundred years old, including some good insights on diet!
 

paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
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www.the-teh.com
Seems like the more and more I read it's plant based diets that win the day and has the ability to repair the body.

So no oil consumption is good? It's sure good for my poo :)
 
Last edited:

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
8,032
3,464
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They tracked 1.4 million people over 30 years:


Coronary artery disease is the leading cause of death & disability globally. TL;DR:

1. The risk for coronary heart disease increased as the amount of meat eaten increased
2. For each 1.75oz of beef, lamb, and pork, the risk went up 9%
3. For each 1.75oz of processed meats (bacon, ham, sausage), the risk went up 18%

Additional notes:

1. There appears to be no correlation to poultry (chicken & turkey)
2. Plant-based diets are ranked highest for being healthy
3. The Ornish diet is supposedly the only scientifically-proven program to reverse heart disease in a random clinical trial without drugs or surgery

I always take stuff like this with a grain of salt, no matter how big the study is. 1.4 million people for 30 years? Did they self-report? Did they track every meal every day for 30 years? What other contributing factors were there? I do think this is a pretty interesting article given the scale of it. I currently like Michael Pollen's advice of "eat food, mostly plants, not too much", which means eat real, whole foods, eat more veggies, and don't over-eat. My core approach currently is IIFYM. I still enjoy BK Whoppers & Snickers bars from time to time, but I also cook a lot more at home these days using "real" ingredients as opposed to ultra-processed ingredients all the time.

I figure we're all going to die someday, so for me right now it's about finding a balance between enjoying life & doing things that will keep me alive longer & help me feel good along the way. I've done various restrictive diets in the past (keto, paleo, vegetarian, vegan, raw vegan, gluten-free vegan, fruitarian, etc.) & always end up back on an omnivore diet. I feel the best eating according to my macros, regardless of food source. I tend to feel better eating real, whole foods, in general, but I've learned to stop villifying sugar (I use it in moderation), fast food (I enjoy this as a treat), etc.

This article did get me to think about how much red meat I eat. I mostly eat chicken (convenient, versatile, and cheap!) but enjoy homemade burgers (ground beef) & pizza (processed pepperoni) weekly, steaks once in awhile, etc. Studies are hard because some studies have the opposite data - some say too much fish is bad for you, some say any oil is bad for you, etc. For example, some experts claim even olive oil isn't a health food:


If you have 20 minutes to spare, check out the Blue Zones TED Talk:


It has some pretty interesting information on how people live to be a hundred years old, including some good insights on diet!
Isn't this old news?
Studies showing red meat's link to heart disease and cancer have been around for years.
Hell, 30 years ago we already knew that red meat consumption was linked to Colon cancer and I thought red meats link to heart disease was already well established for decades.
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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Isn't this old news?
Studies showing red meat's link to heart disease and cancer have been around for years.
Hell, 30 years ago we already knew that red meat consumption was linked to Colon cancer and I thought red meats link to heart disease was already well established for decades.
I think it's sort of like smoking cigarettes...they're dialing in more & more for public awareness. It's interesting to note that the culinary definition of red meat is different than the nutritional definition, which includes pork as red meat:


That wikipedia article has an interesting entry for processed meat:

Processed meat See also: Processed meat

In 2015, the International Agency for Research on Cancer of the World Health Organization (WHO) classified processed meat as carcinogenic to humans (Group 1), based on "sufficient evidence in humans that the consumption of processed meat causes colorectal cancer."[18] Processed meat is that which has undergone salting, curing, fermentation, smoking, or other processes to enhance flavor or improve preservation.[19] It includes bacon, ham, salami, pepperoni, hot dogs, and some sausages. Most processed meat contains at least some red meat.[19]

Nitrates and nitrites found in processed meat can be converted by the human body into nitrosamines that can be carcinogenic, causing mutation in the colorectal cell line, thereby causing tumorigenesis and eventually leading to cancer.[20] In its Press Release 240 (16 Oct. 2015) the International Agency for Research on Cancer, based on a review of 800 studies over 20 years, concluded that processed meat is definitely carcinogenic (Group 1) and found that for each additional 50g of processed meat consumed per day, the risk of colorectal cancer increased by 18% (up to a maximum of approximately 140g);[21] it also found that there appeared to be an increase in gastric cancer but this was not as clear.[22]

A 2016 literature review found that for the each additional 50g per day of processed meat consumed, the risk increased 4% for total prostate cancer, 8% for cancer mortality, 9% for breast cancer, 18% for colorectal cancer, 19% for pancreatic cancer, 13% for stroke, 24% for cardiovascular mortality and 32% for diabetes.[23]
So whereas red meat is classified as "probably carcinogenic", processed meat IS carcinogenic to humans. Which is a bummer because I love grilling & smoking meat haha!
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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Seems like the more and more I read it's plant based diets that win the day and has the ability to repair the body.

So no oil consumption is good? It's sure good for my poo :)
I've become a big fan of fasting over the years, and plant-based diets are probably way healthier for us than eating a ton of meat all the time haha.
 
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pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
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I think it's sort of like smoking cigarettes...they're dialing in more & more for public awareness. It's interesting to note that the culinary definition of red meat is different than the nutritional definition, which includes pork as red meat:


That wikipedia article has an interesting entry for processed meat:



So whereas red meat is classified as "probably carcinogenic", processed meat IS carcinogenic to humans. Which is a bummer because I love grilling & smoking meat haha!
It's been so long since I started shunning red meat and garbage processed food I've lost track of what specifically got me to pass on it.
I'm glad I paid attention back in the 90's when they told people "Red Meat - > colon cancer and heart attacks"
Most of my diet consists of birds, greens and fish.....and tostitos. Damn you tostitos
 

paperfist

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Nov 30, 2000
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I've become a big fan of fasting over the years, and plant-based diets are probably way healthier for us than eating a ton of meat all the time haha.
But then there’s the pesticides and lack of soil nutrients issue :D

I’m giving it a try though as I eat way too much junk. Also more grains and nuts. The trick though seems to be my brain says oh nice you ate a bowl of oats, but that can’t fill you up like a double cheese burger, eat more!
 

Torn Mind

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Nov 25, 2012
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Links are links. But how does lobbying affect outcomes. But about 30 years ago, the lobbyist's travesty called the "food pyramid" came into being and trans fats weren't too far behind. That partially hydrogenated veggie would be used when steaks are cooked by frying.

People might also be eating fried chicken, Twinkies, pasta, etc along with the red meats. They also might have rather large appetites in general.

Method of preparation might also be a factor. Red meat boiled for soup might have a difference effect than red meat fried.

Uncured bacon might be just fine since the nitrates are not there.

Certain plants are better than others. Cellulose scrapers are great. Fruits can go to hell.

Funny thing is that carbs have yet to really enter taboo territory.

I frankly have a body that's wired such that no one thing can make me function. Going heavy on the meats...actually tires me out and I lose appetite for it. I am a bit of a sweets addict, but eating carbs alone tends make me start feeling "lacking" and repetitively hungry. Regardless, it's very hard to control, since I try to stick to a "dental abscess avoidance diet" but I've caved numerous times eating ice cream, sweet fruits, pastries, etc or getting the craving for chocolate eclairs, or that breaded fried chicken. Vegetables are weird with me. I'll willingly eat them in prepacakaged salads...but it's like I have no will to prepare them alone. Although bok choy with salt, I'll eat.
 

mike8675309

Senior member
Jul 17, 2013
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Seems like the more and more I read it's plant based diets that win the day and has the ability to repair the body.

So no oil consumption is good? It's sure good for my poo :)

It's not that a plant-based diet repairs the body, it's that the plant-based diet helps promote the systems in our bodies that repair themselves. They have recently come to a clear understanding that everyone one of us is developing cancer every single moment of our life. And our immune system clears it nearly all the time. Animal products have things in them that reduce our body's ability to repair themselves, increasing the risk for the bad things to not get cleared out.
 
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paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
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It's not that a plant-based diet repairs the body, it's that the plant-based diet helps promote the systems in our bodies that repair themselves. They have recently come to a clear understanding that everyone one of us is developing cancer every single moment of our life. And our immune system clears it nearly all the time. Animal products have things in them that reduce our body's ability to repair themselves, increasing the risk for the bad things to not get cleared out.
You're right. I've been reading this book called How Not To Die that says just that, when you feed your body the right nutrients it allows it's systems to run correctly.

That sound pretty scary if that's how cancer works. I don't imagine while meat we consume is cooked that eating another animals problems is great for our own body.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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It's not that a plant-based diet repairs the body, it's that the plant-based diet helps promote the systems in our bodies that repair themselves. They have recently come to a clear understanding that everyone one of us is developing cancer every single moment of our life. And our immune system clears it nearly all the time. Animal products have things in them that reduce our body's ability to repair themselves, increasing the risk for the bad things to not get cleared out.
I got into long-term fasting in the past few years after learning about all of this stuff. It's amazing how much we decay naturally, and also amazing at how our bodies can naturally repair themselves!
 

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