"recycler" and "sytem volume information" on external HD

[TaylorD]

I have a maxtor 200gb external onetouch drive and these folder have popped up on it.

it is not the system drive and system restore is disabled across the board, but I still can't delete these folders or their contents...

any ideas?

thanks
-Taylor

 

[imported_tightflks]

recycler is your recycling bin

system volume information is just that, system volume information, mayeb u disabled system restored, but thas still needed i think

yah you cant delete, and shouldnt want to

 

[TaylorD]

why do i need this crap on an EXTERNAL HARD DRIVE that is NOT THE SYSTEM DRIVE?

It didnt have it before I plugged it into the computer its plugged into now (ie with the last computer these directories werent there, it was also an XP computer)

 

[imported_tightflks]

im not too sure about that then

but a recycler is required for all drives htough, cause when u delete something, form a certain drive, it goes to the recycler folder of that fdrive, not to ur system drive

 

[VirtualLarry]

I don't know, it's rather annoying. I multi-boot, and my WinXP SP1 installation, has dropped a bunch of "System Volume Information" directories onto my other non-XP FAT32 volumes. Totally unnecessary, and looks kind of ugly, but I just leave them, who knows what bad things might happen when you start to mess with MS OS default "things". Same reason that I generally don't touch directories under \Windows (or \WINNT), unless I'm really, absolutely, sure what I'm doing.

 

[Smilin]

system volume info is used for other things besides system restore. VSS (snapshots, shadow copies, backups) also uses it.

It's a really bad idea to disable system restore by the way.

 

[imported_tightflks]

yes ia gree

 

[Ryoga]

Originally posted by: tightflks
but a recycler is required for all drives htough, cause when u delete something, form a certain drive, it goes to the recycler folder of that fdrive, not to ur system drive

That's not true. It's not required at all.

Right-click Recycle bin, choose Properties, and choose "configure drives independently". Select the external HDD and check the box that basically says "don't use the recycle bin on this drive".

 

[Ryoga]

Originally posted by: Smilin
system volume info is used for other things besides system restore. VSS (snapshots, shadow copies, backups) also uses it.

It's a really bad idea to disable system restore by the way.

I disagree with that one, too. System restore is notirious for backing up viruses and other malware, so if it is ever used it to rollback Windows might very well re-infect itself. Why do you think step 1 of every virus cleaning procedure is "Disable System Restore"?

 

[TaylorD]

I agree with Ryoga. System restore may be great in some cases but as noted, it also backs up viruses. I don't think its a good idea to disable it if you are unable to deal with the potential consequences.

So, to my next question, why is the RECYCLER folder on my external hard drive almost 1gb when theres nothing in the recycle bin?

 

[Ryoga]

Duh, even an empty trashcan takes up floor space! </sarcasm>

Can't say for sure. Do you have Norton Protected Recycle Bin?

 

[helpmeout]

I have them both in my second (backup) HD also. Both are always empty, but they resist deletion, so I just live with them.

 

[TaylorD]

dont have norton... who knows

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: Ryoga

Originally posted by: Smilin
system volume info is used for other things besides system restore. VSS (snapshots, shadow copies, backups) also uses it.

It's a really bad idea to disable system restore by the way.

I disagree with that one, too. System restore is notirious for backing up viruses and other malware, so if it is ever used it to rollback Windows might very well re-infect itself. Why do you think step 1 of every virus cleaning procedure is "Disable System Restore"?

That is a really weak reason for not using system restore. Three sentences should poke adequate holes in that reasoning:

First, don't get a virus and if you do be prepared for worse consequences than this. Second, your AV software should be able to clean inside system volume information anyway. Third, if you do get a virus and it damages your system you would be in better shape if you've been using system restore.

I specialize in fixing 'dead' servers and workstations. There are a slew of uses for your system restore points when fixing a damaged or unbootable system. I would really recommend leaving it on. If the drive space bothers you restrict it some. It will save your butt someday, promise!

 

[VirtualLarry]

I actually have to weigh in with Smilin on this one.

However, I just had an idea, perhaps this would be a worthwhile suggestion to propose to MS - what if there were an option, to leave "system restore" enabled, but *only* the registry and core system-file backup facility, *not* all volume filesystem changes? That would actually be rather nice, because in W2K, I miss the automatic boot-time historical registry-archiving feature that Win98se had. That saved my butt on more than one occasion. But I don't really need entire filesystem-wide file-delta tracking support, nor do I want to dedicate space on my HD for it.

Perhaps MS could see fit to give us some sort of "slimmed down System Restore" feature, in newer versions of Windows, as an option?

PS. I'm actually kind of curious, how would a virus re-active or re-infect a system, if it is archived in the system-restore files? I don't see how it could, unless you manually roll-back to a system-state in which things were actively infected.

 

[TaylorD]

viruses in system restore are more of a nuisance than a threat... virus software will recognize the virus in system restore but be unable to clean it because it is denied access... so the only way to clean it is to disable system restore then restart.

you are right though, the only way to reinfect from system restore is if you actively restore an infected restore point.

as for my problem, any other guesses on this "RECYCLER" folder?

 

[Smilin]

With system restore you can restore to a point as an atomic operation - it will make sure all file versions are right. If you attempt to slim this down it may or may not work. It's already confined to pretty much system files only. If you trim it down any further you can end up in 'dll hell' with mismatches.

Your next best bet is to create an ERD (creating floppy is optional) and choose the option to also backup the registry. With this route you can get a point in time snapshot of just your registry in the windows\repair\regback folder.

Definately set a reasonable max on the size of system restore. If you turn it off altogether at least make freqent ERDs (performing a system state backup with ntbackup does the same thing).

XP machines are so much easier to recover than 2000 just because of this feature.

 

[oldman420]

heres the deal when you install xp it looks at your system as just that and totaly integrates ALL components into the system. that is why it writes system volume info and adds a trash can it just makes sense . to avoid this problem as well as many ohers i remove all extra hardware as in extra hdds and usb devices before a fresh install of xp. this allows me to add a blandk drive that windows sees as extra and therefore doesnt totaly integrate it. you may be able to go into xp setup and format the drive there. just unplug the other and set that as master.repartition and reformat then kill setup before it can copy files . you will have a truly blank drive then my freind.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: TaylorD
virus software will recognize the virus in system restore but be unable to clean it because it is denied access... so the only way to clean it is to disable system restore then restart.

Doing that will destroy your restore points. If you've really let a virus get in that folder and you can't get it out just assume ownership and assign yourself permissions.

 

[TaylorD]

if you've cleaned the virus from your current system then I see no issue with deleting all your restore points.

 

[Smilin]

Other than the fact you don't have any restore points?

 

[TaylorD]

same as when you first install windows is it not? what did people do before system restore points? convenient, yes - but vital, no.

 

[Smilin]

No, when you first install windows you have a restore point. When your system is damaged and you choose to turn off restore points as the first troubleshooting step, THEN you don't have restore points.

What people did before restore points was fix the problem or format the system. Convenient, yes but vital only if you don't want to format. :|

I think some initial misinformation may have left you with an unnecessary dislike of system restore. Go check out the details of how it works. I think you'll dig it.

 

[TaylorD]

I think I have come across wrong... I don't dislike system restore in any way - It just peeves me that there is space on an external hard drice that I can't recover, and I dont know what its being used for...

System restore is great, and I have it activated right now - I just don't think its all that vital. I flipped it off for a bit to see if it would recover the lost space, it didnt, so I turned it back on.