• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Record number of Americans renounce citizenship

werepossum

werepossum

Elite Member
Whether for tax purposes or for ideological reasons, a record number of Americans renounced citizenship this year, 1800 this year. That's almost eight times the 2008 number and more than 2007, 2008 & 2009 combined.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/16/us-usa-citizen-renounce-idUSBRE83F0UF20120416

A year ago, in Action Comics, Superman declared plans to renounce his U.S. citizenship.

"'Truth, justice, and the American way' - it's not enough anymore," the comic book superhero said, after both the Iranian and American governments criticized him for joining a peaceful anti-government protest in Tehran.

Last year, almost 1,800 people followed Superman's lead, renouncing their U.S. citizenship or handing in their Green Cards. That's a record number since the Internal Revenue Service began publishing a list of those who renounced in 1998. It's also almost eight times more than the number of citizens who renounced in 2008, and more than the total for 2007, 2008 and 2009 combined.

But not everyone's motivations are as lofty as Superman's. Many say they parted ways with America for tax reasons.

The United States is one of the only countries to tax its citizens on income earned while they're living abroad. And just as Americans stateside must file tax returns each April - this year, the deadline is Tuesday - an estimated 6.3 million U.S. citizens living abroad brace for what they describe as an even tougher process of reporting their income and foreign accounts to the IRS. For them, the deadline is June.
Click to expand...

I know it's a major hassle to file taxes from another country, and I don't think it's morally right to tax citizens on money earned in other nations. That said, I'm inclined to say good riddance and stay the hell out to these people. I do not think they should be eligible for travel visas or otherwise allowed to enter the country once they've renounced citizenship. And while I'm at it, a big ol' FVCK YOV to Reuters for a snarky article and to Action Comics as well, for Superman. Don't let the door hit your Spandex-clad ass on the way out.
 
The guy has a point. The American dream is falling apart. The American way has been replaced with the Wall Street way.
 
Superman renounced his American citizenship? Oh, the shame. I'm a bit surprised Fox News and/or the GOP/Tea Party didn't organize a comic book burning.

I note the figure includes those who turned in their green cards so it's grossly misleading. Not only are those people NOT US citizens, but I can imagine a lot of innocent situations where they turned in their green cards without intending it to be a rebuke to the USA.

BTW, filing taxes from other countries in these days of tax software is a piece of cake. The rules are a little more complicated-as I recall if you spent XXX days of the year overseas in a country we have a tax treaty with (and maybe if you are working for a foreign employer, I don't recall) the US doesn't tax your foreign earnings at all.

In any event, hopefully these people helped out with the deficit by paying their $150 exit fee.
 
Well, don't worry OP. We have ten of million good folks want to become US citizens the LEGAL way, not like the lawbreaking ILLEGALS.
 
If you're a US citizen (as opposed to a resident alien) and you live abroad, renouncing your citizenship to avoid taxes is stupid. I assume that most people who would do this are living in Europe, well, Europe's immigration laws are (generally) much more stringent that those of the US. It is very possible to renounce your US citizenship and then not qualify for citizenship where you live and end up as a nationless human.
 
Thump553 said:
-snip-
I note the figure includes those who turned in their green cards so it's grossly misleading.
-snip-
Click to expand...

Green cards are damned difficult to get.

I think it sends the same message: This place is rapidly becoming less desirable.

I have no scorn for those who have renounced their US citizenship. The national debt, among other things, scares me.

We're becoming more-and-more like Europe. If so, why not just move to the 'original' one, the food is a hellavu lot better and their old buildings much more beautiful. The women are hot too.

I lived and worked in several countries in Europe. I found it both interesting and peaceful. For me the peaceful part comes from the detachment. I.e., I didn't concern myself with, or care about their politics. It wasn't my country.

I'll use an analogy: It's sort of like watching a home burn down.

It's interesting to watch if it's not your home.

OTOH, it hurts like h3ll to watch if it is.

After moving back here and seeing what's happening I sometime feel like I'm watching my home own burn.

Fern
 
Last edited:
America is indeed going the wrong direction. . .
The government is getting extremely hungry for money.

on another note, it's expensive to get status here, it's taken myself and my wife two years to get papers filed and it costs THOUSANDS. And because she was here on a VISA she was eligible for 0 assistance for school/housing/food etc yet the illegals who are here get benefits . . . wonder how much it costs them for amnystey every 8 years ?

sickening
 
Fern said:
Green cards are damned difficult to get.

I think it sends the same message: This place is rapidly becoming less desirable.

I have no scorn for those who have renounced their US citizenship. The nation debt, among other things, scares me.

We're becoming more-and-more like Europe. If so, why not just move to the 'original' one, the food is a hellavu lot better and their old buildings much more beautiful. The women are hot too.

I lived and worked in several countries in Europe. I found it both interesting and peaceful. For me the peaceful part comes from the detachment. I.e., I didn't concern myself with, or care about their politics. It wasn't my country.

I'll use an analogy: It's sort of like watching a home burn down.

It's interesting to watch if it's not your home.

OTOH, it hurts like h3ll to watch if it is.

After moving back here and seeing what's happening I sometime feel like I'm watching my home own burn.

Fern
Click to expand...
good post, fern
edit - let me add the caveat - that it's becoming undesirable for people with money, the poor come here to either A) live the diminishing American dream, or B) mooch the system
 
Last edited:
sactoking said:
If you're a US citizen (as opposed to a resident alien) and you live abroad, renouncing your citizenship to avoid taxes is stupid. I assume that most people who would do this are living in Europe, well, Europe's immigration laws are (generally) much more stringent that those of the US. It is very possible to renounce your US citizenship and then not qualify for citizenship where you live and end up as a nationless human.
Click to expand...

Renouncing your citizenship before you get another would be stupid beyond belief.

You can only get a passport from your country of citizenship. Good luck with that whole 'travel thing'.

Fern
 
werepossum said:
Record number of Americans renounce citizenship

Whether for tax purposes or for ideological reasons, a record number of Americans renounced citizenship this year, 1800 this year. That's almost eight times the 2008 number and more than 2007, 2008 & 2009 combined.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/16/us-usa-citizen-renounce-idUSBRE83F0UF20120416


I know it's a major hassle to file taxes from another country, and I don't think it's morally right to tax citizens on money earned in other nations. That said, I'm inclined to say good riddance and stay the hell out to these people. I do not think they should be eligible for travel visas or otherwise allowed to enter the country once they've renounced citizenship. And while I'm at it, a big ol' FVCK YOV to Reuters for a snarky article and to Action Comics as well, for Superman. Don't let the door hit your Spandex-clad ass on the way out.
Click to expand...

You guys have to remember I said this was going to happen.

Especially the super rich with dual citizenships, ready to drop the U.S. one in a heartbeat when their jig is up.

Another thing the great Nostradaveous predicted.
 
The number of citizenship renunciations is so tiny compared to the total number of citizens, in any given year, that I'm not sure we can really draw any conclusions about what it means to have a "record year." A difference between say 1600 and 1800 renunciations is probably just statistical drift.
 
Genx87 said:
Yup it is great when people with the money leave a country. The end result is always favorable.
Click to expand...

And ILLEGAL immigrants and their supporters want to add more illiterate, dirt poor, unable to speak English, zero background check ILLEGALS onto the mass.
 
Svnla said:
And ILLEGAL immigrants and their supporters want to add more illiterate, dirt poor, unable to speak English, zero background check ILLEGALS onto the mass.
Click to expand...

and they come here and DEMAND rights. . . though i don't really care if they don't speak english or are poor, so long as they're productive members of society and don't do crime and pay taxes and TRY to become legal
 
Blind patriotism is not rational or necessarily beneficial to an individual. If the person decides another country is more conducive to their pursuit of happiness, I'm not going to judge them for renouncing US citizenship.
 
woolfe9999 said:
The number of citizenship renunciations is so tiny compared to the total number of citizens, in any given year, that I'm not sure we can really draw any conclusions about what it means to have a "record year." A difference between say 1600 and 1800 renunciations is probably just statistical drift.
Click to expand...
An increase of almost 700% is not statistical drift, although granted the number is tiny. This is caused specifically by a law passed in 2010 putting teeth into a Carter-era law requiring US citizens (and apparently legal US residents residing out of the USA - WTF?) to file on penalty of fine and prison. It's the law of unintended consequences at work - the Dems wanted to get more tax money and ended up running off 1,800 people a year. (Although as stated I have no sympathy for them - if they find another country better then more power to them and good riddance.) The number will increase as more expats find out about the law, but it still won't be statistically important. It'll still piss me off though.

And no, I don't worry about Obama renouncing his citizenship. WTF, Ausm?
 
dmcowen674 said:
You guys have to remember I said this was going to happen.

Especially the super rich with dual citizenships, ready to drop the U.S. one in a heartbeat when their jig is up.

Another thing the great Nostradaveous predicted.
Click to expand...

i really don't blame them, the US wants to tax them for profits made here and abroad and then spend the money frivilously. i'd be pissed too
 
werepossum said:
An increase of almost 700% is not statistical drift, although granted the number is tiny. This is caused specifically by a law passed in 2010 putting teeth into a Carter-era law requiring US citizens (and apparently legal US residents residing out of the USA - WTF?) to file on penalty of fine and prison. It's the law of unintended consequences at work - the Dems wanted to get more tax money and ended up running off 1,800 people a year. (Although as stated I have no sympathy for them - if they find another country better then more power to them and good riddance.) The number will increase as more expats find out about the law, but it still won't be statistically important. It'll still piss me off though.

And no, I don't worry about Obama renouncing his citizenship. WTF, Ausm?
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I apparently did not read closely enough to see the high percentage increase. Either way, the entire phenomenon is pretty minuscule in scale.
 
I don't want to be a Federal citizen any longer... I'd rather just hold my California citizenship and say fuck the rest of it.
 
werepossum said:
An increase of almost 700% is not statistical drift, although granted the number is tiny. This is caused specifically by a law passed in 2010 putting teeth into a Carter-era law requiring US citizens (and apparently legal US residents residing out of the USA - WTF?) to file on penalty of fine and prison. It's the law of unintended consequences at work - the Dems wanted to get more tax money and ended up running off 1,800 people a year. (Although as stated I have no sympathy for them - if they find another country better then more power to them and good riddance.) The number will increase as more expats find out about the law, but it still won't be statistically important. It'll still piss me off though.

And no, I don't worry about Obama renouncing his citizenship. WTF, Ausm?
Click to expand...

...Kenya is relieved...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top