recommendation on P&S: alternative to the Canon SD850?

[andylawcc]

my SD600 just broke and am itching for an upgrade; frankly speaking, the SD600 wasn't overtly impressive, and my company's camera (the SD1000) didn't fare any better too. So i guess the next step up would be the SD800 or SD850. However, would there be choices other than from Canon?

edit: pics added

note: what I do like from the canon is their quality in outdoor pics; my only gripe is when pictures are taken indoor with low light, and where the flash becomes too overpowering.

All the pictures below are taken at ISO:Auto, Macro On, No Flash nor Zoom, and Resized and "Saved As" with 9 in Quality in Photoshop 7.0.

so here are my complaints:

notice the yellow cap on the top is blurred with a slight blue tint, while the details of the main body remains clear (the yellow and red section).
IMG_0817.JPG


The upper and lower left hand corners of the box has good focus, but the top right far end doesn't. (the word kikkoman is blurred)
IMG_1206.JPG

The worst case scenario: the whole pic is plagued with "noise"
IMG_2544.JPG

notice there is a white-ish fogginess over the bottle on the left, while the one on the right is fine.
IMG_2754.JPG

The SD600 is pretty good, I like details on the sushi, but the soy pack on top is bit blurred (the area around the Kikkoman logo and words lack clarity)
IMG_2704.JPG

This is a pic i like
IMG_2681.JPG

 

[jpeyton]

What were your gripes with the SD600 and SD1000? That might help us find you a better alternative.

 

[andylawcc]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
What were your gripes with the SD600 and SD1000? That might help us find you a better alternative.

humm... it takes very nice pictures outdoors with sunlight. But when indoors and upclose (not Marco close), I can notice the grainy-ness (or "noise"?)

let me find a few pic to illustrate my point.

 

[randomlinh]

I think you're going to find issue with every point and shoot regarding indoor/lower light graininess. Unless you turn off auto ISO and don't go above ISO200. But then you're forced to use the flash.

Altho, you can find other cameras that apply more noise reduction in camera, but you'll lose detail.

 

[andylawcc]

Complaints:

notice the yellow cap on the top is blurred with a slight blue tint, while the details of the main body remains clear (the yellow and red section).
IMG_0817.JPG


The upper and lower left hand corners of the box has good focus, but the top right far end doesn't. (the word kikkoman is blurred)
IMG_1206.JPG

The worst case scenario: the whole pic is plagued with "noise"
IMG_2544.JPG

notice there is a white-ish fogginess over the bottle on the left, while the one on the right is fine.
IMG_2754.JPG

The SD600 is pretty good, I like details on the sushi, but the soy pack on top is bit blurred (the area around the Kikkoman logo and words lack clarity)
IMG_2704.JPG

This is a pic i like
IMG_2681.JPG

 

[Fardringle]

Originally posted by: andylawcc
Complaints:

notice the yellow cap on the top is blurred with a slight blue tint, while the details of the main body remains clear (the yellow and red section).
IMG_0817.JPG

The camera is focused on the main body of the bottle. The camera is probably using its widest aperture option since there isn't much light and you didn't use a flash. With a wide aperture, you're going to get a narrow depth of field (narrow range where things are in focus).

The upper and lower left hand corners of the box has good focus, but the top right far end doesn't. (the word kikkoman is blurred)
IMG_1206.JPG

Same thing here. The camera used a wide aperture to compensate for low light and that reduces the depth of field so that the right end of the box is not focused.

The worst case scenario: the whole pic is plagued with "noise"
IMG_2544.JPG

It looks like there was very little light at all when you took this picture. This caused the camera to increase the ISO setting, probably at or near maximum, and this will always give you a lot of noise although the effect is less noticeable on high end/SLR cameras.

notice there is a white-ish fogginess over the bottle on the left, while the one on the right is fine.
IMG_2754.JPG

The camera is focused on the center of the picture (where the two bottles touch) and since the front of the bottle on the right is much closer to that plane of focus it appears sharp while the other bottle, which is closer to the camera and therefore closer to the near end of the shallow depth of field caused by the camera's use of a wide aperture to compensate for low light conditions.

The SD600 is pretty good, I like details on the sushi, but the soy pack on top is bit blurred (can't really read Kikkoman)
IMG_2704.JPG

Once again, this is a depth of field issue. The camera is doing exactly what it is supposed to.

This is a pic i like
IMG_2681.JPG

I like the colors and the little splashes of light from the overhead light fixtures.
You may notice that the edge of the bar in the top/back of the picture is out of focus the same way the other shots are that you said were problems. This is a slightly easier to see example of the effects of depth of field on items that are outside of the current focus range of the camera.



The noise issue in the picture of the Auto Pilot "manual" is legitimate but also perfectly normal for a point and shoot camera. You'll have to step up to a high end camera (i.e. DSLR) to avoid seeing significant amounts of noise in photos taken at high ISO settings. You can avoid this problem by making sure the camera has enough light (or use the flash) so that it does not have to use higher ISO settings. You can also set the camera to use lower ISO settings and a slower shutter speed, although this might require the use of a tripod to hold the camera steady for extended periods of time if the lighting is bad enough.

As far as the focus issues you mentioned, you can probably resolve that problem yourself by using the camera's Aperture Priority mode and setting the aperture to a higher number (say around 5.4 instead of 2.8). This will mean that you will have to either give the camera a lot more light to work with, or hold the camera steady while it uses a slower shutter speed, but it will increase the depth of field so that nearby items will be closer to (or within) the area that the camera is focusing on.

 

[andylawcc]

thank you Fardringle; so it seems like these "complaints" i have will also be found in other P&S cameras too.

I have been looking around, and not a lot of P&S under $200 will be any significantly better than the SD600 I have. I guess I will just suck it up and fix it through Canon Service ($109)

 

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: andylawcc
thank you Fardringle; so it seems like these "complaints" i have will also be found in other P&S cameras too.

I have been looking around, and not a lot of P&S under $200 will be any significantly better than the SD600 I have. I guess I will just suck it up and fix it through Canon Service ($109)

why not just get an SD1000 for $40 more? you mentioned it didn't fair better than the sd600, but did you feel it to be any worse? then you could ebay the sd600 for parts. I got $20 for an SD110 w/ a broken LCD and locked lens.

 

[Fardringle]

I wouldn't spend $110 to repair an old camera, particularly if you're not happy with it. If you want to tell us the things that matter most to you in a camera, we can probably give you some good suggestions. With a limited budget we might not be able to accomodate everything, but there are some very decent cameras even in the low budget range.

Do you want a very compact camera like the SD series, something a little beefier but still fits in a pocket, something large and full of features, etc.?

Does the price need to stay under $200 or can you go a little bit over if there is something significantly better just over the limit?

Do you need a strong zoom or is the 3X zoom you have on the SD600 enough for what you use the camera for?

Is good low light performance a high priority? (Based on your original posts, I assume this is a yes, but I still have to ask. )

Do you use (or want to use) high speed shooting? i.e. Do you want to be able to take a lot of pictures of something in a very short time? For example, your SD600 is capable of taking up to 2 shots per second non-stop in its high speed mode.

 

[andylawcc]

Originally posted by: randomlinh
why not just get an SD1000 for $40 more? you mentioned it didn't fair better than the sd600, but did you feel it to be any worse? then you could ebay the sd600 for parts.

well, the same "compliants" that I have may exist on the SD1000 too, so performance wise the 1000 is only slightly better than the SD600. HOWEVER, durability wise, the new SD1000 should theoretically last longer than my repaired SD600. So 50 additional bucks may seems like a wise investment.

I got $20 for an SD110 w/ a broken LCD and locked lens.

you want a 600 with perfect LCD and locked lens ? ;p

 

[andylawcc]

Originally posted by: Fardringle
If you want to tell us the things that matter most to you in a camera, we can probably give you some good suggestions.

basically the priority list goes like this:

1. Compactness, the SD series are sized just right, but i don't mind if it is a tad bit bulkier.

2. As you asked, it seems like i do take picture mostly in an indoor situation, where low-light is usually a problem. I also like to take close up pics of objects, where the flash would be too strong and would rely on surrounding light source, which is, again, usually insufficient.

3. I don't need a lot of features. Don't need hip gizmo like Sony's T20 touch pad screen. Zoom is also not a priority. 3x is just fine. And I rarely take any high speed pics.

4. Price: under and around $250. If anything above I might save up for a used DSLR

btw: how you know the SD600 can do two shots / min ??? you have one too ?

 

[randomlinh]

Originally posted by: andylawcc

I got $20 for an SD110 w/ a broken LCD and locked lens.

you want a 600 with perfect LCD and locked lens ? ;p

heh, I meant I sold it for $20 on ebay

 

[Fardringle]

I haven't owned or used any of the recent Canon models so I can't give you a personal recommendation there, but the Fuji F30 is almost legendary for its ability to take good quality pictures in lower light conditions. It's been discontinued so you might have to go with a used camera but you can probably get a good price if you're willing to do that. If you want a new camera, the Fuji F50fd (the replacement for the F30/F31) has double the resolution (12MP instead of 6MP), image stabilization, and almost as good low light performance as the F30. The F50 uses xD picture cards or SD/SDHC cards so you can save some money and use the SD memory card(s) you have now with it or with the SD850. 12 megapixel pictures take up a lot of space so if you only have small card(s) now you might want to upgrade to a large card or two. You can find an F50fd new for just a bit over $200 at many different retailers.

The Canon SD850 seems to be a great camera as well, and is priced a bit higher than the Fuji. I don't think you can go wrong with either one. As with any camera purchase, I'd recommend finding a local shop that carries them so you can pick them up and take a few pictures to see which one "feels" better to you.