Recommend me a cheap(ish) computer setup

[Kabob]

I built my current desktop computer back in 2004 and it's served me well. With the upcoming release of Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 (someday...) I'm contemplating a new computer build in the near future. I don't need anything amazing, I don't want a graphics pumping machine, just something that will let me play those games (which supposedly won't be resource hogs) at a decent resolution.

Currently I'm running:
AMD Athalon 64 3400+
DFI Lanparty UT3 Mobo
2x512MB Kingmax Hardcore PC4000 RAM
ATI X800 XT PE AGP 8x card
IDE Western Digital 80GB HDD
IDE Dell CD-RW
Enermax 465W power supply
Antec Super Lan Boy case

I know I'm going to have to scrap pretty much everything except maybe the case and the power supply (but that's a maybe, although it does have decent 12v rails)...I might just replace those as well (depending on price).

Overclocking isn't important at all, I don't plan on downloading tons of music/movies so a giant HDD isn't necessary either. As for fanboyism I like Nvidia but I'll use ATI if it's cheaper.

Once again, I'm not looking for Eyefinity or max resolution DX11 gaming, just something that can play the aforementioned games reasonably well with some room to grow. I haven't really kept up with computer technology over the past few years so I'm not quite sure what's good and what to skip over.

I know my budget is a bit crazy, but if I could keep the parts under $400 that'd be fantastic, less is better (don't want the wife to kill me). If this is unrealistic let me know.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Axon]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...t=Combo.334872 - motherboard/CPU combo (can potentially unlock the fourth core on that phenom x3)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231122 RAM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150467 GPU

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136161 HDD

AMD Phenom X3 435
GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 $80
XFX 5670 GPU (this can be had cheaper I just love XFX) $120
WD "Blue" 250 gig HDD $47

$407.95

Do you have a 24 pin/8 pin 12v connector on that PSU? If so, you can reuse.

Additionally, you could look around for a freebie DVD-RW drive or pick one up new for $25. So you can stay around your budget if you're crafty...but less than $400 will be a challenge. The only other caveat is that I would normally recommend a 5770 (approx $160-180), but your budget is so tight I don't want to shatter it.

 

[Kabob]

Thanks for the input. Questions.

-Can the Phenom keep pace with the intel processors?
-How difficult is it to unlock the 4th core?
-How much of a benefit is it moving to a 5770? What would the Nvidia equivilent be?

 

[heyheybooboo]

XFX Radeon HD 4770: $115

It was on eBlast the end of last week for $95 so the prices are trending down. You get the benefit of better performance, TSMC 40nm and dual-slot but have to trade-off DX11.

If you want max performance at that price point the HD 4850 is for you (but it pulls around 35% more wattage than the HD 4770).




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[M0RPH]

First question is, do you have a Frys or Microcenter nearby?

 

[Axon]

Thanks for the input. Questions.

-Can the Phenom keep pace with the intel processors?
-How difficult is it to unlock the 4th core?
-How much of a benefit is it moving to a 5770? What would the Nvidia equivilent be?

Phenom's can typically keep pace in gaming and are excellent budget chips. They do lose to all of Intel's more expensive offerings, however. Bottom line: Intel makes a better, but more expensive, CPU. Unlocking the fourth core is simple, but also a matter of dumb luck - you go into the BIOS, find the "ACC" option, and essentially set the fourth core to "enabled."

The chip I recommended was anandtech's selection for a budget build. http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=3739&p=2 As a matter of price v. performance, it defeats Intel's budget selection for that price range, the e5300. There is an e5400, but I am not certain how much better it is than the e5300 (likely very similar, probably just a difference in clock speed, which you can easily match).

Now, could the x3 435 keep up with an i3 530, Intel's current "mainstream" offering, priced at $120? No. But then, you'd have to buy a more expensive motherboard P55 chipset to go with that i3, as well as DDR3 RAM (probably around $25 more expensive).

BooBoo is correct that the 4770 is an excellent card for the price (unfortunately, there's not much I'd describe as a "good" deal in the GPU market these days). Still, that 4770 should easily hold you over past Diablo 3. You'd have to check your PSU and make sure you have a compatible PCI-E 8-pin power plug for it, however.

The 5770 would be a significant upgrade - http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5770,2446.html - but would likely also require a PSU upgrade. The 5670, however, powers up directly from the motherboard, and you might get by without a PSU upgrade. A 5570 would also be cheap and highly effective, as you can see from those benches at Tom's hardware.

I'm not sure what the competing Nvidia option is to those two cards, as I haven't been following them much of late - I see them as being highly overpriced currently.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Gigabyte G31M-ES2L $53
E5300 $68
4GB Gskill DDR2-800 RAM (2x2GB kit) $85
Sapphire 4850 $102
WD Caviar Blue 250GB HD $45
Cooler Master Hyper TX3 heatsink $22
total $375

Overclock the E5x00 CPU to 3.6 or so, surely capable with DDR2-800 memory. Match that up with a 4850 or comparible video card, and you should be set. Could add a SATA 24X DVD burner too for $25.

 

[Kabob]

First question is, do you have a Frys or Microcenter nearby?

Unfortunately, no. The nearest Microcenter was about 150 miles away, I believe it's closed now as well.

Phenom's can typically keep pace in gaming and are excellent budget chips. They do lose to all of Intel's more expensive offerings, however. Bottom line: Intel makes a better, but more expensive, CPU. Unlocking the fourth core is simple, but also a matter of dumb luck - you go into the BIOS, find the "ACC" option, and essentially set the fourth core to "enabled."

Great, dumb luck. Knowing my luck the only option would be to disable 2 of the 3 active cores...

The chip I recommended was anandtech's selection for a budget build. http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=3739&p=2 As a matter of price v. performance, it defeats Intel's budget selection for that price range

Sounds good.

Now, could the x3 435 keep up with an i3 530, Intel's current "mainstream" offering, priced at $120? No. But then, you'd have to buy a more expensive motherboard P55 chipset to go with that i3, as well as DDR3 RAM (probably around $25 more expensive).

$25 for everything or just for the RAM?

BooBoo is correct that the 4770 is an excellent card for the price (unfortunately, there's not much I'd describe as a "good" deal in the GPU market these days). Still, that 4770 should easily hold you over past Diablo 3. You'd have to check your PSU and make sure you have a compatible PCI-E 8-pin power plug for it, however.

Current PSU is an Enermax EG465P-VE(FMA) I got in late '05 when my other PSU was dying. It wasn't exactly new technology then but it had a solid 12V rail and hasn't given me a lick of trouble since. Not sure about the connections, although I doubt it has a PCI-E connection.

Thanks for the help to all!

 

[Axon]

1. Great, dumb luck. Knowing my luck the only option would be to disable 2 of the 3 active cores...

2. $25 for everything or just for the RAM?

3. Current PSU is an Enermax EG465P-VE(FMA) I got in late '05 when my other PSU was dying. It wasn't exactly new technology then but it had a solid 12V rail and hasn't given me a lick of trouble since. Not sure about the connections, although I doubt it has a PCI-E connection.

1. Haha...not to worry. You're guaranteed three cores on a Phenom II X3. You just might get lucky and unlock that fourth core.

2. $25 more for just the RAM. The P55 chipset (socket 1156), which houses all of the i3 CPUs, will usually run you at least $100 for a motherboard and approximately $110 for 4 gigs of DDR3 RAM. So you're looking at $125-$150 more for the i3 build at the minimum when all is said and done. There might be a good combo deal at newegg, so look around if you want to explore every option.

3. Be very careful when buying a video card if you don't have a PCI-E power pin. Most cards require it now, and certainly the 5770, 4850 and 4770 do. 5570 and 5670 do not, so that should be a factor in your purchase. I think the same is true for the nvidia 240 and 220, not 100% on that though. A new PSU can be had for $40-50, so it might be worth going in for that just to be safe.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Apparently the Enermax PSU has a 2 x 6-Pin PCIe connector so it should function well for you. It's always a good idea to consider a PSU replacement when purchasing new components "at some point in the future" - LOL

The XFX HD 4770 comes with a nifty 'Y' power connector: 2 x 'Molex' to 6-Pin PCIe. The card is 8.25 inches long if that is a concern for you.

If you want to go 'Green' around that price point the 9800gt would be your best bet but is 55nm and will pull a good bit more wattage at load. The GT 240 is 40nm and quite power efficient but would let you down from a performance standpoint.





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[pcsavvy]

Over the Christmas holidays, I got a fantastic deal from Frys on an Athlon II X3 425 and Gigabyte GA-MA78LM-S2 (760G) motherboard for about $77.00 with a $10 MIR.😀 It is not the board I would have liked but I was able to use all my parts from my Intel 775 build and now my system feels so much snappier and quicker. Sure, it won't leave a current mainstream Intel build in the dust but it does the job and it was less than $100 for the two parts.
If your budget is real tight, you can't beat an AMD build especially if your budget can't quite stretch to a quad core. The tricores are nice compromise. You can always get the integrated graphics and when money allows upgrade to higher end video card.
When I have the money I'll upgrade my motherboard and ram to an AM3 board.

 

[mfenn]

You mention that you want to upgrade for SC2 and D3. Is your current setup sufficient otherwise? If so, then you should wait until the requirements for SC2 are known before upgrading. It's likely that they won't be earth-shattering, but if you're otherwise fine with your current build, why upgrade? You will get more for your $400 around the time of the SC2 release than you will now.

 

[Axon]

SC2 Beta was released today. Requirements:

• Windows XP SP3/Vista SP1/Windows 7
• 2.2 Ghz Pentium IV or equivalent AMD Athlon processor
• 1 GB system RAM/1.5 GB for Vista and Windows 7
• 128 MB NVidia GeForce 6600 GT/ATI Radeon 9800 PRO video card
• 1024x768 minimum display resolution
• 4 GB free hard space (Beta)
• Broadband connection

 

[Kabob]

You mention that you want to upgrade for SC2 and D3. Is your current setup sufficient otherwise? If so, then you should wait until the requirements for SC2 are known before upgrading. It's likely that they won't be earth-shattering, but if you're otherwise fine with your current build, why upgrade? You will get more for your $400 around the time of the SC2 release than you will now.

That is true. ATM the only games I play on my PC are at least 5 years old so I'm alright for now...

Amazingly, I can run SC2 with my current setup although I get the feeling it's going to look pretty bad at those settings.

Newegg is having DIY sales today.

WD Caviar Blue 500GB HDD OEM - $50
G-Skill 2x2GB 1066MHz RAM kit - $90
LG 22x DVD writer - $23

I don't see a better CPU/Mobo deal than the combo deal you posted Axom.

Still confused about the GPU's. You recommend the 5670 or 5770, someone else recommends the 4770 or 4850 (all ATI). The price is extremely close, looks like the 5*** has double the RAM, but what's the difference in performance like?

Also, there are a few video cards on sale, although they're all Nvidia.

BFG GeForce GTS 250- $125
Asus GeForce GT 240 - $90 w/$20 MIR
Or I could go REALLY cheap and get an XFX GeForce 9500 GT - $63 ($2 off normal price!!!)

I dunno, part of me thinks I should wait as mfenn mentioned, $400 will buy a better system in a few months when the game is released, but part of me wants to just get it over with...

 

[Axon]

Well, you can play the waiting game forever. I have that same hang up when I'm looking to buy; I'm always looking at the horizon. 😛 This summer I tried to hold out for Intel's new 1156 i5/i7 platform, but ended up cracking and getting the i7 920. I don't regret it.

As to the GPU - I sympathize with you because it's impossible to assimilate all the crazy information and model numbers the GPU makers put out. Unfortunately, there is no clear winning option right now. Everyone is recommending ATI because they are the current leader. But Nvidia's best budget offering is definitely the 9600GT or the GT 240.

We're at a transition point where DX11 cards are coming out, but DX10 cards still flood the market and they're not being priced to move. I couldn't tell you why; I'll leave that for someone more in the know. Anyway, here's Tom's Hardware's February 2010 "best bang for the buck" GPU Roundup, it summarizes a lot of your issues: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-gaming-graphics-card,2544-2.html

Now, I can't stress this enough - certain cards require a 6, or even 8-pin PCI-E power connector. I have my doubts that your PSU supports that, but it may. You should look hard into that because this will have a critical effect on your decision. So if you buy anything other than the 4670, 5670, GT 240 or 9500 GT, you will also likely need a new PSU. All of those cards, however, will run everything you want to play. Given your current situation, I would say get the 4670 or the 5570 from Ati or the GT240 from Nvidia. If your PSU wasn't an issue, I'd say the 4850 is the clear winner.

I got into the Starcraft 2 beta last night, by the way. I'll post some screens tonight after work. Anyway, after a korean handed me my ass (I think he was Korean? lots of "kekekekkekekekeke" and then he SCV rushed me 🙁 ) I settled in as the zerg and won a bunch of games. It really is an unbelievable experience. I haven't played SC1 in years, and all my old skills and tics came right back to me. Awesome. I can't wait for the campaign release.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Enermax EG465P-VE FMA 2.2 460W ATX12V SLI Ready 80 PLUS Power Supply

 

[mfenn]

Well, you can play the waiting game forever. I have that same hang up when I'm looking to buy; I'm always looking at the horizon. 😛 This summer I tried to hold out for Intel's new 1156 i5/i7 platform, but ended up cracking and getting the i7 920. I don't regret it.

I agree with you in the general case. If you don't have a specific reason to upgrade and just "want to," then RIGHT NOW is always the right time. 😛

HOWEVER, the OP has a specific need to upgrade, but that need won't manifest until a future date. Thus, he should wait until 1-2 weeks before the SC2 release and then build. He'll get more for his money at that point in time, and won't have lost anything (because his need hadn't manifested yet).

 

[Axon]

I agree with you in the general case. If you don't have a specific reason to upgrade and just "want to," then RIGHT NOW is always the right time. 😛

HOWEVER, the OP has a specific need to upgrade, but that need won't manifest until a future date. Thus, he should wait until 1-2 weeks before the SC2 release and then build. He'll get more for his money at that point in time, and won't have lost anything (because his need hadn't manifested yet).

True, true.

 

[Dasda]

The i3's work with H55 boards too. Those are cheaper than p55. Usually around $100mark

 

[Kabob]

Thanks to all of you for all the advice, you've been tremendously helpful.

It's true that I do have a target that I want to hit with graphics capability (Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3) but I wouldn't waiting until the last minute to get more for my buck, a little more future-proofing.

Well, you can play the waiting game forever. I have that same hang up when I'm looking to buy; I'm always looking at the horizon. 😛 This summer I tried to hold out for Intel's new 1156 i5/i7 platform, but ended up cracking and getting the i7 920. I don't regret it.

As to the GPU - I sympathize with you because it's impossible to assimilate all the crazy information and model numbers the GPU makers put out. Unfortunately, there is no clear winning option right now. Everyone is recommending ATI because they are the current leader. But Nvidia's best budget offering is definitely the 9600GT or the GT 240.

We're at a transition point where DX11 cards are coming out, but DX10 cards still flood the market and they're not being priced to move. I couldn't tell you why; I'll leave that for someone more in the know. Anyway, here's Tom's Hardware's February 2010 "best bang for the buck" GPU Roundup, it summarizes a lot of your issues: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-gaming-graphics-card,2544-2.html

Now, I can't stress this enough - certain cards require a 6, or even 8-pin PCI-E power connector. I have my doubts that your PSU supports that, but it may. You should look hard into that because this will have a critical effect on your decision. So if you buy anything other than the 4670, 5670, GT 240 or 9500 GT, you will also likely need a new PSU. All of those cards, however, will run everything you want to play. Given your current situation, I would say get the 4670 or the 5570 from Ati or the GT240 from Nvidia. If your PSU wasn't an issue, I'd say the 4850 is the clear winner.

So the GT 240 doesn't require the extra pin in the PSU? Which cards use more power typically, ATI or Nvidia?

I got into the Starcraft 2 beta last night, by the way. I'll post some screens tonight after work. Anyway, after a korean handed me my ass (I think he was Korean? lots of "kekekekkekekekeke" and then he SCV rushed me 🙁 ) I settled in as the zerg and won a bunch of games. It really is an unbelievable experience. I haven't played SC1 in years, and all my old skills and tics came right back to me. Awesome. I can't wait for the campaign release.

Post pics please! While I didn't get into the SC2 beta, I did load the first game up last night (haven't played it in years and I never played it much online). Lots of fun, although I need to finish Warcraft 3 TFT before I get into it (I've got like 5-6 missions left on the last campaign).

 

[Kabob]

This OCZ 500w ModXStream is on sale at Newegg for $40 shipped as well as a Sapphire 5750 HD video card, will the PSU have enough juice to power it?

 

[M0RPH]

This OCZ 500w ModXStream is on sale at Newegg for $40 shipped as well as a Sapphire 5750 HD video card, will the PSU have enough juice to power it?

Of course...
System Requirements: 450 Watt or greater power supply with 1x 75W 6-pin PCI Express power connector recommended (600 Watt and two 6-pin connectors for ATI CrossFireX Technology in dual mode)

 

[Axon]

This OCZ 500w ModXStream is on sale at Newegg for $40 shipped as well as a Sapphire 5750 HD video card, will the PSU have enough juice to power it?

Yes. Don't let me panic you man, I just didn't want you sitting there with a PCI-E 6 pin card and a PSU that won't power it! Virtually all modern PSUs, especially the one you linked, will have the capacity to run a 5750. It only gets tricky when you buy one of the real power hogs.

If this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...D=3332167&SID= is your PSU, you don't even need to buy a new one for a 5750. It will power it just fine.

 

[Kabob]

5750 is a lower power video card?

I haven't taken the time to check on the PSU exactly but I don't think that's the one I have. I believe mine is a 465w unit (the Amazon link I used earlier is where I got it from, but from a private seller).

 

[M0RPH]

Check reviews around the web for the 5750. You'll see that typical systems with a 5750 don't draw more than 250W at load. That might go up to 300W if you have a really high end system. You would be ok with even a 350W psu. Don't be fooled by what you read around here, people here tend to buy much more power supply than they need.