Recommend components for a 3.1 system that can be upgraded to 5.1 in the future

Gunslinger08

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
13,234
2
81
So I've been living with just the speakers on my 50" plasma for about a year, and it's finally bugging me (300 on Blu-ray will do that). I don't really have anywhere to put surround speakers right now, but I'd like to at least setup a 3.1 system to start with. I'd also like recommendations for speaker stands.
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
Aug 6, 2001
31,205
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What's your budget? Any requirements about what kind of speakers you're looking for (floorstanding, in-wall, etc)

How big is your room? You need a receiver too, right?

(YGPM too)
 

Gunslinger08

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
13,234
2
81
I don't really have a budget - I'd just like to get a good value for my money. Similar to computer parts, there's always a point of diminishing returns. I know I can buy $20,000 front speakers, but they don't sound 100 times better than $200 fronts. I'd like a good balance between price and performance. The room is around 15x15. I do also need a receiver.
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
Aug 6, 2001
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If your options are pretty wide open, I would highly recommend going out and listening to some different pricepoints to get an idea of what's available. I'm not sure where you're located, but if hopefully you'd be able to find some specialty AV/HT type stores that would have options for you to listen to. Bring in some demo material that you're familiar with and go see what a $200/pair of speakers sounds like vs. $2000/pair or $20,000/pair.

A lot of people are pretty happy with just "surround sound" and don't really care what they have. There are options in the sub-$100/pair range that offer good bang for your buck and most people would probably be fairly satisfied with them. If this is the first set you've ever had, then it's pretty hard to say what kind of budget would probably work best for you. With computer parts, it's pretty darn easy to see diminishing returns due to benchmark graphs, but picking out sound equipment isn't that easy.

Is this strictly going to be for movies, or will this be a music system as well?
 

Deudalus

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2005
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Hrm, where are ya located at first of all? Is it an area where you can demo tons of stuff or not really......

Also, size of the room and amount of music you will listen to vs. movies.
 

Gunslinger08

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
13,234
2
81
Originally posted by: Deudalus
Hrm, where are ya located at first of all? Is it an area where you can demo tons of stuff or not really......

Also, size of the room and amount of music you will listen to vs. movies.

Small town, so not a lot of places to demo.

15x15 room. Used only for watching television and movies.
 

cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
42
86
How well does 3.1 sound work? I've got the tv setup in a room that really does not work for rear speakers, and considered adding a center channel because voice in many Blu-ray movies are low in volume in a 2 channel setup, and wouldn't a center channel help with this? I've got a Yamaha 7.1 receiver, but looking through the manual doesn't really show any definitive answer for 3.1.
 

Tiamat

Lifer
Nov 25, 2003
14,068
5
71
Originally posted by: joshsquall
I don't really have a budget - I'd just like to get a good value for my money. Similar to computer parts, there's always a point of diminishing returns. I know I can buy $20,000 front speakers, but they don't sound 100 times better than $200 fronts. I'd like a good balance between price and performance. The room is around 15x15. I do also need a receiver.

Well, the thing is "sound better" is subjective, and you cant put objective ratings (100x) onto them. Of course, the 20k$ speakers do not *measure* 100x better than the 200$ speakers :)

Do you have setup constraints? For instance, is it possible for you to get 3 matching bookshelf speakers or floorstanding speakers to be exactly the same height on your front stage (usually only possible if you have a front projector)

Otherwise, since you said you have 50" plasma, you will have to compromise most likely. For center channel speaker of the horizontal type, you want to look for a design that is WMTW (woofers flanking the midrange with tweeter on top center) where the woofers are not separated by more than 1/2 the wavelength of the crossover frequency (to prevent disastrous off-axis lobbing effects). With that said, you would want FL and FR to be matching floorstanding speakers with most likely, a WWMT driver alignment. Finally, the center channel would have to be as high as possible so that the tweeter can get as close as possible to be in line with the FL and FR tweeters.

If this arrangement is beyond your budget, or you have good bass management in your receiver and want to just use bookshelf sized speakers, you would want to get 3 matching bookshelf speakers (most likely 2-way) and set them up in the same vertical-oriented fashion. You dont want to lay them on their side, and you want to avoid the common MTM center channel speaker design because they commonly have very bad off-axis lobbing.

Speaker stands are somewhat dependant on what you feel acceptable to have in your home. I typically would want some stands that the speakers can mount to (assuming the speakers have mounting thru-bolts). Its nice to have speaker stands where you can fill the pillars with lead shot or sand so that you can weigh it down (harder to knock over).

For subwoofer, this really depends on your room. Is it 15x15 enclosed fully? or is it open to other areas? This matters because the subwoofer needs to pressurize all of the enclosed air. If enclosed, something like HSU VTF-2, SVS PB-10 should be enough. If open to the rest of your house, then you probably wanna look at something a size bigger. Of course, there are many other companies that make wonderful subwoofers out there!


If you cannot demo, its going to be kinda shooting a shotgun in the dark (for us in terms of advice, and for you in terms getting the "right" speaker). Since sound quality is very subjective, its very difficult for us to offer choices that may suit your liking. My advice above is typical "good" overall design, but there are many other details that are important.

Do you live near Bestbuy w/ Magnolia? Perhaps, if so, you can audition Def Tech, Vienna Acoustics, Klipsch, JBL. These speakers all have their own flavor, and you will most likely not like some of them (which can help in narrowing down the speaker choices). Most online venders like Swan, AV123, Axiom, Ascend, AudioConcepts, have nice speaker offerings and have 30 day trial periods. They sound very different however from each other, so it is important to know what you like or dislike.

Otherwise, check Paradigm, B&W, Dali, Monitor Audio, NHT, etc. websites to see if they have a dealer near you so that you can check these retail brands out.

I happen to like B&W more than Paradigm and Dali, but there would have been absolutely no way I would have been able to know based on numbers and graphs. In order to know for sure, you have to listen to the source material that you normally listen to on these speakers.
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
Aug 6, 2001
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Originally posted by: cubby1223
How well does 3.1 sound work? I've got the tv setup in a room that really does not work for rear speakers, and considered adding a center channel because voice in many Blu-ray movies are low in volume in a 2 channel setup, and wouldn't a center channel help with this? I've got a Yamaha 7.1 receiver, but looking through the manual doesn't really show any definitive answer for 3.1.

3.1 works quite well. My parents are using a 3.1 set in their basement right now.

It may or may not help that much with the low volume of voices in movies just due to the fact that a lot of movies have a lot of dynamic range and it's often the case that quiet passages are hard to hear without turning things up.

Something you might want to try is to enable dynamic range compression on your receiver if it has it. (Midnight mode or something similar might be what they call it).

That will make the overall volume of the movie more consistent so you will have more even volume between loud and quiet parts of the movie.

If you get a center channel, that may help your problem though. Some people boost their center channel a bit in comparison to their other speakers to combat the problem you're experiencing.
 

Gunslinger08

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
13,234
2
81
Thanks for the response, Tiamat. The TV is about 5' off of the ground, so I could probably place all of the speakers at the same level (with speaker stands for the left and right channels). The 15x15 is not fully enclosed. There's another unused portion of the room which is probably an extra 10x10. Unfortunately, the closest Best Buy is over an hour away. The best we have is a Circuit City.
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
Aug 6, 2001
31,205
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If it's hard to demo options in your area, you might want to check out the in-home trials of some of the ID speakers brands as Tiamat mentioned. AV123 is the company I went with for my sound and for example, they have risk-free trials of bookshelf speakers (they pay shipping both ways if you want to return them within the trial period).

I was actually able to find a local owner of the products I was interested in and hear them in his home before ordering them for myself. Where are you located if you don't mind saying? (zip code?)
 

Tiamat

Lifer
Nov 25, 2003
14,068
5
71
Originally posted by: joshsquall
Thanks for the response, Tiamat. The TV is about 5' off of the ground, so I could probably place all of the speakers at the same level (with speaker stands for the left and right channels). The 15x15 is not fully enclosed. There's another unused portion of the room which is probably an extra 10x10. Unfortunately, the closest Best Buy is over an hour away. The best we have is a Circuit City.

At your Circuit City try Boston Acoustics, Polk, Kef, to see if any of those suit your fancy, or you do not like them. If you do get a chance, you may have to drive the hour to check out Klipsch, JBL, and the others as all of these speakers sound very different, so it will be worth it to find out you dont like some of them. I can almost guarantee that if you like one or two of the above brands, you will not like some of the others that I mentioned.

The 30day trial period of the Internet Direct brands is nice because you get to experience your room's effect to the sound (which is very important). If you have a credit card with enough credit, you could take on 2 or 3 pairs of speakers that you are most interested in and send back the ones you dont like. If you were to choose between Axiom, ACI (audio concepts), AV123, Ascend, they sound so different that there is bound to be 2 of those that you will determine immediately that they do not work for you. It is a "pain" to repack etc., but there is no easy way out in this very subjective game of sound.

The flip side to this hard work is that, in the end, you will buy something that you find fully satisfactory, worth your hard-earned money, and gain knowledge. Additionally, you will also have made a good decision because you would have considered pros and cons to several designs.

Choosing the subwoofer will probably be much easier - especially if you have never experience a true "good" subwoofer yet. Between SVS, HSU, ACI, Velodyne SPL/DD series, JL Fathom, Axiom, the more money you spend, the more nice subwooferage you will have -- the kind of bass where you just sit in your chair and laugh your a$$ off at the power of true bass. With these companies, 500$ and up ropes you some damn good bass.
 

Emulex

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2001
9,759
1
71
that bose 3.1 setup sounds as good as most 6.1 rigs.

avoid bluetooth rear speakers. they get laggy and noisy with alot of wireless activity in the house.

flatwire is good stuff :)
 

SLCentral

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2003
3,542
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71
Originally posted by: Emulex
that bose 3.1 setup sounds as good as most 6.1 rigs.

avoid bluetooth rear speakers. they get laggy and noisy with alot of wireless activity in the house.

flatwire is good stuff :)

Please tell me you're kidding.
 

Deudalus

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2005
1,090
0
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Originally posted by: SLCentral
Originally posted by: Emulex
that bose 3.1 setup sounds as good as most 6.1 rigs.

avoid bluetooth rear speakers. they get laggy and noisy with alot of wireless activity in the house.

flatwire is good stuff :)

Please tell me you're kidding.

Bose

Better sales through marketing and brainwashing the deaf and retarded via ad spam.
 

Gunslinger08

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
13,234
2
81
Still looking for recommendations. I'll be going out to listen to various speakers sometime in the next week.
 

montypythizzle

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2006
3,698
0
71
Damn, I wasn't first to mention Bose :( /fail

HMM, it's sometimes hard to find matching fronts and center.
Where are you going to browse at?
 

Gunslinger08

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
13,234
2
81
Originally posted by: montypythizzle
Damn, I wasn't first to mention Bose :( /fail

HMM, it's sometimes hard to find matching fronts and center.
Where are you going to browse at?

Circuity City and a Crutchfield outlet.
 

montypythizzle

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2006
3,698
0
71
Originally posted by: joshsquall
Originally posted by: montypythizzle
Damn, I wasn't first to mention Bose :( /fail

HMM, it's sometimes hard to find matching fronts and center.
Where are you going to browse at?

Circuity City and a Crutchfield outlet.

Damn, all I have is CC and BB, neither places auditioning booth usually works though :( May just be because ignorant assholes hook them up.