Recommend a receiver...

[GTaudiophile]

Which of the following brands do you recommend based on overall build quality, DAC quality, power supply quality, etc.?

My budget is around say $800.

Onkyo
Yamaha
Integra
Denon
Harman
Sony
Marantz

While I only need stereo amplification at this time, I prefer the versatility of inputs offered by a receiver over say an integrated amplifier.

I need something capable of pushing at least 100WPC at 4 Ohms.

The receiver will most likely push a pair of Dynaudio Excite X12 or X16 speakers or a pair of Monitor Audio RX8 speakers.

Brands like Cambridge Audio, Bryston, Arcam, McIntosh, and Naim are out of my price range at this time.

Thanks.

 

[NutBucket]

Your 4 ohm requirement your big limitation IMHO. I wouldn't expect most mainstream audio amps to be happy with that sort of load.

Isn't Integra high end Onkyo? Just trying to remember.

Do you actually plan on doing anything other than stereo amplification in the future? Also, does it have to be new?

 

[Tiamat]

Honestly in that price range, my first stop would have been Cambridge Audio or Rotel. However, since you need the connectivity of a receiver, you would probably be going in the direction of receiver + amp. Something like a Rotel or emotiva stereo amplifier would take up at least half of your budget, and then 300-400$ for an entry level receiver for connectivity.

Is room correction important to you? I think Denon 1712 brings MultiEQxt at the 400$ range and is the only manu. to do that at the entry level price.

You could always try the receiver first at lower volumes to see if your speakers overheat the receiver before buying a stereo amplifier. I just don't see many if any receivers in that price range willing to work with 4 ohm loads if your speakers truly spend a lot of their FR in the 4 ohm range. A speaker like Thiel CS2.4, which is measured to be at and slightly under 4 ohms throughout its band would certainly not be workable on such receivers (unless at very low output levels perhaps).

 

[kornphlake]

The only stereo receiver I'm aware of with an integrated DAC is the HK3490, it is a good quality receiver and will meet your requirements but I'm not entirely sure it's the best recommendation. You don't specify digital inputs (coax or optical) but you do mention the DAC which is only used with digital sources, so I assume you want a receiver with digital inputs. You don't say you won't consider a multi-channel receiver but you do ask for recommendations for 2 channel stereo receivers so I assume you aren't interested in a 5.1 or 7.1 HT receiver. Those constraints really leave you with only one option.

If you don't need digital inputs there are a bunch of good stereo receivers out there, if you need digital inputs and wouldn't mind a multi channel HT receiver there are a bunch of good options as well.

 

[gar655]

Because of the 4 ohm load try and find a Harman (HK) AVR 3600 or even the 2600. Last time I looked Amazon had both and both can drive 4 ohm speakers.

 

[SithSolo1]

If you just want 2.0 or 2.1 and are keen on the "retro" look, what about the RR2150 from Outlaw Audio? https://www.outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html

160w per channel @ 4ohm
Analog/USB input
Built in bass management + Sub Out

If you don't mind refurbished you have a few upper end choices from Accessories4less.com

Onkyo TX-NR809 $649+shipping - http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...7.2-Channel-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html#!more

Onkyo TX-NR1007 $699+shipping - http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...tts-Channel-9.2-Network-Receiver/1.html#!more

 

[mshan]

There are lots of used Arcam on Audiogon.com

I would think Rotel might be a good choice, NAD ok.

Parasound separates (Halo series) might be good.

Marantz might have fuller AVR sound; not sure but Harmon Kardon might also work.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Funny, I have been discussing this over at AVS Forum and no one seems to think that any of the higher end ($800) receivers would have a problem with the 4 Ohm load. The Onkyo website is even quite clear about stating wattage at 4 Ohm loads.

 

[GTaudiophile]

As for connectivity, I envision the following setup:

OTA HD antenna connected to HDTV
HDTV connected to receiver (via ARC HDMI)
BR player connected to receiver (via HDMI/HDMI+component)
HTPC connected to receiver (via HDMI)

At first I was looking at integrated amps from the likes of Cambridge Audio and Arcam until I decided that none of them could handle the above inputs. The receivers from these brands are too expensive for me.

 

[alcoholbob]

According to the stereophile review the average impedance of the Excite X12 is 6.6 ohms so I don't think you will need something stable to 4 ohms just for stereo.

 

[frowertr]

Funny, I have been discussing this over at AVS Forum and no one seems to think that any of the higher end ($800) receivers would have a problem with the 4 Ohm load. The Onkyo website is even quite clear about stating wattage at 4 Ohm loads.

Most decent AVR's have a current limiting switch built it that will shut the AVR down if it determines that the AVR is "overworking" itself powering low ohm speakers. This maybe why the AVS community isn't too worried about it.

I usually blanket recommend the Denon 2112 to most people who need a new AVR with all the bells and whistles but with no pre-outs. You can pick it up for $450 shipped to your door. But I hesitate to do so with your 4-ohm speaker setup. You may want to head back over to AVS and ask about this specific AVR with 4-ohm speakers if you are considering Denon.

 

[queequeg99]

Most decent AVR's have a current limiting switch built it that will shut the AVR down if it determines that the AVR is "overworking" itself powering low ohm speakers. This maybe why the AVS community isn't too worried about it.

I usually blanket recommend the Denon 2112 to most people who need a new AVR with all the bells and whistles but with no pre-outs. You can pick it up for $450 shipped to your door. But I hesitate to do so with your 4-ohm speaker setup. You may want to head back over to AVS and ask about this specific AVR with 4-ohm speakers if you are considering Denon.

I've been using a Denon 2112 to drive a pair of Aperion Verus Forte Towers for about 9 months now (sometimes at very loud volumes) and haven't had any trouble. The Aperions are 6 ohm speakers (just looking at Astralite's comment about the Excite X12s).

 

[GTaudiophile]

Most decent AVR's have a current limiting switch built it that will shut the AVR down if it determines that the AVR is "overworking" itself powering low ohm speakers. This maybe why the AVS community isn't too worried about it.

I usually blanket recommend the Denon 2112 to most people who need a new AVR with all the bells and whistles but with no pre-outs. You can pick it up for $450 shipped to your door. But I hesitate to do so with your 4-ohm speaker setup. You may want to head back over to AVS and ask about this specific AVR with 4-ohm speakers if you are considering Denon.

I would prefer pre-outs.

I am leaning heavily for the Onkyo NR709.

Any idea why Integra charges nearly $400 more for the same receiver? (Onkyo and Integra are essentially the same company.)

 

[velillen]

Any idea why Integra charges nearly $400 more for the same receiver? (Onkyo and Integra are essentially the same company.)

They are the same company Only thing i can really see difference wise is you get a 1 year longer warrenty with integra. Also it seemed like integras (at least used to be) were more for the home automation type installs. It was also believed (though never confirmed) that integras used higher quality parts or parts thta met higher tolerances than onkyo's.

how much of that is true i dunno but it was what i'd discovered when iw as wondering the same question....im sure someone has the real answers

 

[frowertr]

I would prefer pre-outs.

I am leaning heavily for the Onkyo NR709.

Any idea why Integra charges nearly $400 more for the same receiver? (Onkyo and Integra are essentially the same company.)

If you want pre-outs I assume you are going to use an amp, right? So pick an amp that will run 4-ohm speakers and don't worry about what the AVR can do. Emotiva makes some great amps if you are also tring to figure that part out. But it will add to your expense.

You would have to move up to the 3112 in the Denon line for pre-outs which is $810 shipped from Electronics Expo and I'm still not certain it is 4-ohm compatible without during further research.

This is a great price on the Onkyo NR709 with pre-outs! Most of the reviews on Amazon on favorable for it. So long as the AVS community owners thread also gives it positive reviews I'd be inclined to buy that one as well if I were on the hunt for a new AVR.

 

[velillen]

on the lines of the onkyo 709 is also the onkyo RC-370. Bit different connection wise if your looking for something in particular. The basics are the same for both (preouts, multiEQ XT, ect) but slightly different output/inputs

 

[Tiamat]

Whether or not these receivers can run a 4 ohm speaker depends greatly on how much output you demand and how efficient they are, and how reactive the speakers are throughout their bandpass. It isn't necessarily the 4 ohms that causes problems, but actually it is the phase angle in the bass frequencies in addition. I'll see if I can find some published results on the electrical reactivity of the dyns...

http://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-excite-x12-loudspeaker-measurements

The dyn x12 doesn't go much below 6 ohm, but 125hz might suck the amp dry due to the phase angle at higher outputs. It is your judgment as to if you would be requiring high output levels... You will probably be fine since it doesn't dip below 4 ohm at those phase angles

 

[Subyman]

Don't be scared away because of the "4ohm" requirement. It really depends on the resistance profile of the speaker, not just the single number given on the box. My paradigm speakers show 4 ohms on a multimeter, but will work fine with 8ohm minimum amps and receivers. In fact, I use four 4 ohm speakers on my Onkyo TX-NR509 without any problems. You need to call the manufacturer of your speakers and ask them if they are 8 ohm compatible. That is why you are hearing people on AVS say that it will most likely work.

 

[Anarchist420]

Which of the following brands do you recommend based on overall build quality, DAC quality, power supply quality, etc.?

My budget is around say $800.

Onkyo
Yamaha
Integra
Denon
Harman
Sony
Marantz

While I only need stereo amplification at this time, I prefer the versatility of inputs offered by a receiver over say an integrated amplifier.

I need something capable of pushing at least 100WPC at 4 Ohms.

The receiver will most likely push a pair of Dynaudio Excite X12 or X16 speakers or a pair of Monitor Audio RX8 speakers.

Brands like Cambridge Audio, Bryston, Arcam, McIntosh, and Naim are out of my price range at this time.

Thanks.

HK3490 is great. It does have a kind of weak DAC, but the power circuitry is amazing.

The only stereo receiver I'm aware of with an integrated DAC is the HK3490, it is a good quality receiver and will meet your requirements but I'm not entirely sure it's the best recommendation. You don't specify digital inputs (coax or optical) but you do mention the DAC which is only used with digital sources, so I assume you want a receiver with digital inputs. You don't say you won't consider a multi-channel receiver but you do ask for recommendations for 2 channel stereo receivers so I assume you aren't interested in a 5.1 or 7.1 HT receiver. Those constraints really leave you with only one option.

If you don't need digital inputs there are a bunch of good stereo receivers out there, if you need digital inputs and wouldn't mind a multi channel HT receiver there are a bunch of good options as well.

The HK3490 is pretty damn good (now that I'm using banana plugs) and I'm sure it will work with 4ohm speakers as long as the volume isn't set extremely high.

There is only one alternative to the HK3490 and that's an Onkyo stereo receiver with networking capability (8050 if I'm not mistaken), but it's probably not as good because the power rating isn't anywhere near as high. It may have a better DAC though.

 

[GTaudiophile]

The HK 3490 would be ideal if it had HDMI inputs / ARC support.

 

[MrGlobe]

I wouldn't get any receiver and expect it to be able to push 100w at 4ohms. With that kind of budget, I would purchase a used receiver to use as a pre-amp and then purchase a seperate amp to power the speakers. There are tons of used receivers out there that would have pre-outs for all channels (to add separate amplification to all channels) as well as a multitude of digital inputs and outputs. You'd only have to spend a couple hundred dollars to get a quality used pre-amp that would be more than capable, especially since it wouldn't need to power the mains.

Emotiva is a good brand with quality offerings for fairly cheap prices. There are quite a few used models out there for sale as well. Carver is another quality amp brand you will see quite a bit on the market.

If it were me, I would purchase a used HK, Denon, Marantz, Pioneer Elite, etc receiver that had 7.1 preouts, in addition to HDMI inputs and pass-through. Then I would buy a used 5 channel separate amp, which would allow for bi-amplification of the mains or equal amplification for 5 channels.

Separate amps have their own power supply, etc which usually means a much more powerful and stable supply of quality watts. Additionally, since power amps are fairly straight forward, they often last for a long time. I have purchased used Carver amps that are 20 years old with no negative experiences in their performance.

 

[Anarchist420]

The HK 3490 would be ideal if it had HDMI inputs / ARC support.

Why do you need HDMI inputs if you're only using 2 channel?

 

[MrGlobe]

Why do you need HDMI inputs if you're only using 2 channel?

HDTV connected to receiver (via ARC HDMI)
BR player connected to receiver (via HDMI/HDMI+component)
HTPC connected to receiver (via HDMI)

HTPC and BRP via HDMI

 

[kornphlake]

HTPC and BRP via HDMI

Don't those devices still have RCA preouts for 2ch stereo? It's been a while since I bought new electronics but I believe my Blue ray player has RCA, Toslink and HDMI outputs. You can use a stereo receiver with the RCA jacks if all you're going to do is 2ch stereo, of course you rely on the quality of the DAC in the source which may not be as high quality as the DAC in a receiver, and you'll have to change the audio source on the receiver and the video source on the TV, which may or may not be a big deal. Most televisions don't have RCA outputs for sound, you'll have to use Toslink for OTA broadcasts, but honestly I don't know many people who invest big bucks on a home theater but don't subscribe to cable or satellite TV.

Honestly though, I don't see any reason to try and avoid HDMI, just because you can use RCA doesn't mean it's the best idea just because you are only going to have 2 speakers.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Okay, so about this option?

Marantz NR1402 ($400, New)
Carver TFM-15 Amp ($160, Used)

Total: $560

Not too sure of all the specs on that used amp, though.