Recommend a Radeon PCI video card, please

[Boobers]

Hello everybody.

I'm looking for a PCI video card for a Compaq 5BW250 Presario computer (700 Celeron w/ 256MB RAM), that currently has Intel 810E integrated video. This MB has no AGP slot.

I've seen the ATI Radeon 7000 for about $50, and the 7500 for about $65. I'm just wondering if it's worth the extra $'s for the 7500 over the 7000.

I've also seen the 9000 for about $99, but I'm having a hard time finding anyone who actually sells it. I think I'd spend the extra $'s for the Hercules 9000 PCI, but I can't find one.

Any opinions are welcomed.

 

[Mloot]

If you are in the US, then AFAIK the only place to get the Herc. 9000 PCI is from the Hercules website. Here's a direct link for you:

Herc. 9000 PCI

Digital River is the company that handles the sales of the card for Hercules. I had a good experience with them. I bought the Herc. 9000 PCI about a month ago and it arrived in 3 days (I'm in Texas). However, the card was so large that it would not fit inside my SFF case. I had to RMA the card, and less than a week after sending it back to them, they had credited the full amount back to my account, minus the shipping charges. No restocking fee and no questions asked.



If you want the Powercolor version, you can get it from Newegg. The Herc. card is supposed to a bit faster, though.

 

[Boobers]

Thanks for pointing out the "Power Color 9000 PCI". I hadn't looked for Power Color because I'd never heard of them before. Has anyone ever actually owned one of these?

The $99 (shipped) price for a 9000 w/ 64MB doesn't seem bad, considering the 7000 w/ 64Mb is $69 and a 7500 LE w/ 64Mb is $77.

I need to get one for a friend of mine. She plays Diablo II, and her integrated video chipset scored a 450 on 3DMark 2001 SE! I have an AMD K6-III 450Mhz machine with a Rage Fury Pro that beats it, turning in a very miserable 565...

 

[Mloot]

Actually, I just sold my Powercolor 9000 PCI to another AT'er this week. It was a pretty good card, but I sold it because I bought an AIW VE PCI. I have a 2.4 P4 with 512mb RAM, and with the PC 9000 PCI, I would get between 4270-4300 on 3DMark. It was a darn sight better than my integrated video. OTOH, with the VE, I get around 5080 on 3DMark, and on Dungeon Siege it's about 10fps faster than the 9000. Plus, I've got all those AIW goodies (this is my first AIW card, and I think ATI has made me a convert).

 

[gucio69]

I have previously tried to upgrade a similar compaq (600 celly, 128MB shared ram dont remember the model #) however I wasn't able to do it since the BIOS had no options to disable the onboard vid. I was getting a blank screen when trying to use the output on the pci video card (onboard vid worked fine). Do some research before u spend money on a card u might not be able to use.

 

[Boobers]

The Compaq website forum states that there is indeed no BIOS option to shut off the integrated video. What has to be done is the Intel 810E Display Driver must be "Disabled" in the Device Manager. Then shut down, install the PCI card, reboot and install the new driver for the PCI card. The BIOS does contain settings for assigning IRQ's, and it is sometimes necessary to assign PCI slot 1 it's own IRQ. This is what I have been told, but I haven't tried it yet.

Many people on that forum have successfully used Radeon cards, but I only heard about the 7000 and 7500 variety, not the 9000.

I'm leaning towards the 9000 PCI because my friend needs a gaming card now, and the next "hand-me-down" computer she's getting from her Dad will also have intergated video with no APG slot (I hate Compaq business computers!), so she can swap the card to her next computer.

I'd rather get the Hercules 9000 PCI card, but at $150 I don't think it's worth the extra money when compared to the Power Color 9000 PCI at $99 shipped.

Are there any other PCI cards out there I'm missing?
Thanks for the help.

 

[Mloot]

You might take a look at the AIW VE PCI for $126 at Newegg. It's faster than the Powercolor 9000 PCI when it comes to gameplay, plus you can watch and record TV on your PC, do video editing, and all kinds of goodies. I replaced my PC 9000 with the VE and it was a worthwhile upgrade.

 

[Toro 45]

Originally posted by: Mloot
Actually, I just sold my Powercolor 9000 PCI to another AT'er this week. It was a pretty good card, but I sold it because I bought an AIW VE PCI. I have a 2.4 P4 with 512mb RAM, and with the PC 9000 PCI, I would get between 4270-4300 on 3DMark. It was a darn sight better than my integrated video. OTOH, with the VE, I get around 5080 on 3DMark, and on Dungeon Siege it's about 10fps faster than the 9000. Plus, I've got all those AIW goodies (this is my first AIW card, and I think ATI has made me a convert).

Mloot,what is the core for the AIW VE based on(7500,9000,9000 Pro?) & what is the core/mem clock set at?

Toro

 

[Mloot]

Toro, the core is based on the Radeon 7500 and is clocked at 260/250(500). For comparison, the Powercolor 9000 PCI is clocked at 250/190(380). Here is a review Rage3D did of the AIW VE:

review

and here's another review:

2nd review

Here are a couple of benchmarks I did between the two. The bold figures (easier to read for comparison) are for the AIW VE, which are posted separately below the PC 9000 results. System specs can be seen in my sig. Also, UT2003 demo at 800x600x32 can be seen below that. Hope that helps.


DISPLAY
Platform RADEON 9000 Series
CPU Optimization D3D Pure Hardware T&L
Width 1024
Height 768
Depth 32 bit
Z-Buffering 24 bit
Texture Format Compressed
Buffering Double
Refresh Rate 60 Hz
FSAA Mode None

OPTIONS
Show Title Screens Yes
Continuous Benchmark No
Benchmark Run Count 1
Demo Sounds Enabled Yes
Continuous Demo No
Game Sound Effects Enabled Yes
Game Music Enabled Yes
Game Detail Level Low

RESULTS
3DMark Score 4288/5049
Game 1 - Car Chase - Low Detail 58.2 fps/77.9 fps
Game 1 - Car Chase - High Detail 33.8 fps/40.2 fps
Game 2 - Dragothic - Low Detail 61.6 fps/84.3 fps
Game 2 - Dragothic - High Detail 37.1 fps/42.5 fps
Game 3 - Lobby - Low Detail 67.9 fps/90.4 fps
Game 3 - Lobby - High Detail 33.1 fps/43.5 fps
Game 4 - Nature 16.5 fps/Not supported by hardware
Fill Rate (Single-Texturing) 283.8 MTexels/s - 385.2 MTexels/s
Fill Rate (Multi-Texturing) 971.4 MTexels/s - 1095.5 MTexels/s
High Polygon Count (1 Light) 17.4 MTriangles/s - 16.2 MTriangles/s
High Polygon Count (8 Lights) 4.4 MTriangles/s - 4.1 MTriangles/s
Environment Bump Mapping 66.2 fps/83.2 fps
DOT3 Bump Mapping 29.6 fps/59.9 fps
Vertex Shader 30.9 fps/22.7 fps
Pixel Shader 50.3 fps/Not supported by hardware
Advanced Pixel Shader 44.3 fps/Not supported by hardware
Point Sprites 7.6 MSprites/s - N/A


DISPLAY
Platform ALL-IN-WONDER VE PCI
CPU Optimization D3D Pure Hardware T&L
Width 1024
Height 768
Depth 32 bit
Z-Buffering 24 bit
Texture Format Compressed
Buffering Double
Refresh Rate 60 Hz
FSAA Mode None

OPTIONS
Show Title Screens Yes
Continuous Benchmark No
Benchmark Run Count 1
Demo Sounds Enabled Yes
Continuous Demo No
Game Sound Effects Enabled Yes
Game Music Enabled Yes
Game Detail Level Low

RESULTS
3DMark Score 5049
Game 1 - Car Chase - Low Detail 77.9 fps
Game 1 - Car Chase - High Detail 40.2 fps
Game 2 - Dragothic - Low Detail 84.3 fps
Game 2 - Dragothic - High Detail 42.5 fps
Game 3 - Lobby - Low Detail 90.4 fps
Game 3 - Lobby - High Detail 43.5 fps
Game 4 - Nature Not supported by hardware
Fill Rate (Single-Texturing) 385.2 MTexels/s
Fill Rate (Multi-Texturing) 1095.5 MTexels/s
High Polygon Count (1 Light) 16.2 MTriangles/s
High Polygon Count (8 Lights) 4.1 MTriangles/s
Environment Bump Mapping 83.2 fps
DOT3 Bump Mapping 59.9 fps
Vertex Shader 22.7 fps
Pixel Shader Not supported by hardware
Advanced Pixel Shader Not supported by hardware
Point Sprites N/A


UT2003 Demo at 800x600x32 (sorry, but don't have the game, so the demo will have to do):

Botmatch:

antalus(9000)

2.110784 / 32.175224 / 68.548256 fps
Score = 32.196850

(VE)

1.151169 / 34.282494 / 77.447548 fps
Score = 34.312931



asbestos(9000)

2.218444 / 50.793316 / 103.953682 fps
Score = 50.823841

(VE)

8.670625 / 50.024899 / 113.048470 fps
Score = 50.054611



anubis(9000)

14.790266 / 48.343506 / 158.245987 fps
Score = 48.359257

(VE)

17.580750 / 50.974907 / 111.765251 fps
Score = 50.977638




citadel(9000)

2.217937 / 34.774178 / 89.601166 fps
Score = 34.831947

(VE)

7.880892 / 38.391552 / 96.366898 fps
Score = 38.445648


Flyby's:


antalus(9000)

14.763944 / 58.286644 / 272.050446 fps
Score = 58.306358

(VE)
15.087923 / 88.336533 / 395.545166 fps
Score = 88.382843



asbestos(9000)

19.540274 / 113.939278 / 433.728119 fps
Score = 113.994568

(VE)

61.938869 / 146.164124 / 459.275452 fps
Score = 146.263794




citadel(9000)

15.608399 / 63.117706 / 294.840027 fps
Score = 63.227913

(VE)

21.036356 / 88.435448 / 296.567444 fps
Score = 88.614807

 

[heliomphalodon]

I bought a PowerColor Radeon 9000 PCI to upgrade my Intel N440BX motherboard. Bad mistake -- the N440BX has an onboard Cirrus video controller. I was never able to get the Radeon to work, and I tried every combination of DirectX 8 and 9, and old and new versions of the drivers from both PowerColor and ATI. The card is now sitting in a static bag in a drawer... I would advise you to get something else, like an nVIDIA PCI card, instead.

I'll sell my Radeon 9000 PCI for cheap, if you want to go that route...

 

[Boobers]

Mloot - Thank you for the detailed analysis. I agree that the AIW VE PCI is a very good card, but It's kind of out of my price range. If I was going to spend that kind of money on a video card, I'd spend another hundred and buy a MB with an AGP slot and a AMD processor.

I'm looking for something kind of cheap just to play games with. I know I come off sounding cheap-a$$, but it's going to be a gift, so give me a break please.

heliomphalodon - I'd be interested in talking about buying your board, for a reasonable price. I might be able to take it off your hands...

 

[Mloot]

Boobers, don't worry, you don't sound like a cheap-a$$. Even $100 is alot to spend for a PCI vid card, when just a little more would get your mobo and Athlon. I probably would go that route too, but this is my wife's Dell (she will not buy anything else) and there is no way I'm going to get away with stripping all of the usable components out of there to put in a home-built pc. I've got to make do with what I've got for another year or so until I can save up enough to get components for a homebrew pc.

The 9000 PCI is about the best you will get for under $100, and it's definitely not a bad deal when you get a used one for a decent price. The only card that is comparable in that price range is an MX440 PCI.

Have fun upgrading.

 

[heliomphalodon]

Originally posted by: Boobers
heliomphalodon - I'd be interested in talking about buying your board, for a reasonable price. I might be able to take it off your hands...

It's yours for $50 + shipping. PM me with your email address if you want it...

 

[Mloot]

Very nice price!

 

[heliomphalodon]

The time I wasted trying to get the thing to work properly was worth far more than the card cost!
Now I'd just like to see it gone, preferably to a good home.

I could list it on eBay, but I'm too lazy.

 

[Boobers]

PM'd you my email addy...