Recommend a Digital Camera

Compman55

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Ok here is the criteria.

-Must be under $250
-Must be able to do 1080p video
-Must have a nice optical zoom, I can sacrifice MP for better zoom
-Must be small. Not like a DSLR body.

There are like a million choices and the two that I bought in yrs past, I definalty did not pick the right ones, so I am not doing it on my own this time.
 

Compman55

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anyone?

If this topic is better served on a photography based forum, could anyone recommend such a place?
 

corkyg

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OK, I just moved it here less than 15 minutes ago. Give it a chance. It is now in the right forum. :)

Browse and you may find the answer in another thread. It's a common question. Under $250 with 1080p may be a bit of a reach.
 

Compman55

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I definalty like the feature of the more expensive one, but what kind of limitations does a "wide angle" lense have? I hear they are seldom used in the photography business. Any opinions on this. Pros/Cons?
 

ElFenix

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I definalty like the feature of the more expensive one, but what kind of limitations does a "wide angle" lense have? I hear they are seldom used in the photography business. Any opinions on this. Pros/Cons?

where would you hear something like that?


first piece of knowledge you should learn: zoom 'X's mean nearly nothing. it's just a mathematical function of the longest focal length of the lens divided by the widest (shortest) focal length. so, a lens that can zoom from 25 to 100 is the same number of Xs as a lens that can zoom from 30 to 120.

second, wide angle focal lengths are worth a lot more than the long figures. a couple extra mm on the long end is a manufacturing variation. a couple extra mm on the wide end can enable dramatically different perspective and framing.

third, all consumer digicams from reputable manufacturers have zoom lenses. so, they all go from wider to longer. and they all cover a fairly useful photographic range. usually a lens will start at 30mm or lower on the wide side and end up at 100mm or longer on the long side. usually if a consumer digicam says it has a wide angle lens, that means its widest angle is wider than the typical widest angle (although that may not be the case and you have to compare specs to see).


so which do you want? go up to my second point and you'll see that a couple extra mm on the wide side is worth quite a bit. it enables you to get shots of subjects in cramped quarters where you can't back up any more. or to get everyone at the party in view without squeezing them uncomfortably together.

as for long, to get twice as close you have to double the number. 'normal' is considered to be about 50. so to get twice as close you'd have to get to 100. to get twice as close from there you'd have to get to 200. so the difference between 100 and 120 isn't very much.
 

slashbinslashbash

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Feb 29, 2004
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And just for point of reference, 30-35mm was about as wide as most consumer-level P&S cameras got say 4-5 years ago. Now 28mm is fairly standard, and 24/25/26/27mm are all considered "wide" for a P&S.

(Of course, all of these are in terms of 35mm equivalent. The sensors on P&S cameras are smaller than 24x36mm, so the lenses are scaled down accordingly. So an actual zoom of 5.0-20.0mm (a 4x zoom) would be the equivalent of a 30-120mm zoom on a 35mm film camera. 35mm film was such a standard for such a long time that those focal length equivalents have become standard talk among photographers.)

I would definitely go with the wider end. 24mm is very nice, but really anything 28mm or wider in a P&S is pretty good. I think it's now fairly uncommon to find one that's 30mm or higher on the wide end, but they're probably still around.

Could you tell us what you didn't like about your last two cameras, and what they were? Brand + model please.
 

Compman55

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Very interesting read. My last camera is a sony DSC-H5 which at the time a local shop ranted and raved if its quality. I fell for it without a second thought. What I don;t like about it is the non existent battery life. It uses 2x AA and you MUST use expensive lithium to get any kind of life. If you buy the best Ni-MH they last for maybe 10 minutes, or 3 days in off mode. This alone make it impossible to travel with.

Also back then, to get good zoom, it had to be a gigantic camera, so again it is not very portable.

Before that was a crappy HP camera and I would be embarassed to admit I bought it. I don;t even remeber the model.

The two cannons listed in this thread I really liked at first but after reading reviews am evem more dissappointed. The image quality is questioned in the panasonic, and the expensive canon. And the reliabilby is poor on the small canon, people mention lense motor failure happenes premature. I hate that, because I am very OCD and treat my stuff above average and it always breaks due to poor build / components.

So I guess I have to add one last requirement, and that would be overall reliability, like no desgin flaws that causes premature failure.
 

slashbinslashbash

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Very interesting read. My last camera is a sony DSC-H5 which at the time a local shop ranted and raved if its quality. I fell for it without a second thought. What I don;t like about it is the non existent battery life. It uses 2x AA and you MUST use expensive lithium to get any kind of life. If you buy the best Ni-MH they last for maybe 10 minutes, or 3 days in off mode. This alone make it impossible to travel with.

Also back then, to get good zoom, it had to be a gigantic camera, so again it is not very portable.

Before that was a crappy HP camera and I would be embarassed to admit I bought it. I don;t even remeber the model.

The two cannons listed in this thread I really liked at first but after reading reviews am evem more dissappointed. The image quality is questioned in the panasonic, and the expensive canon. And the reliabilby is poor on the small canon, people mention lense motor failure happenes premature. I hate that, because I am very OCD and treat my stuff above average and it always breaks due to poor build / components.

So I guess I have to add one last requirement, and that would be overall reliability, like no desgin flaws that causes premature failure.

Well already you have two competing requirements. You want a "good zoom" (I assume this means you want at least 10x zoom) while you also don't want design flaws that make it easier to fail prematurely. Well, here's the thing. Big zoom lenses require a lot of complex machinery to zoom in and out. The more the zoom, the more this is so. There are some "folded lens" cameras where all of the optical mechanisms are permanently inside the camera body, so nothing's ever exposed to damage; however, these top out at about 4x-5x zoom AFAIK. (To see an example, look at the Panasonic DMC-TS3 -- the lens never comes out of the body.)

Again AFAIK, all superzooms/ultrazooms have a lens that extends outward from the body. At this point in time, you can get a compact superzoom with 10x or 12x zoom that comes in a flat body that doesn't look DSLR-like at all. But that lens is going to be relatively fragile -- it has to pop out when you turn the camera on, and it's got several telescoping sections that move in and out. If you move up to the ultrazoom level (18x zoom or higher) then the cameras start to look more like small DSLR bodies, where the lens barrel is always out there and cannot retract flat into the body. This usually means it won't have to telescope outward as much, or in as many sections, and therefore it is probably more reliable. But suffice it to say, ALL cameras with an extending lens WILL be susceptible to this kind of damage.

That being said, I have a Canon SD600 and a Canon SD760 (both older versions of what is now called the ELPH series), and they both have been subjected to a lot of drops on hard surfaces, and they both have been damaged to some extent. The 600 has a slider switch on the back that turns it from photo mode, to video mode, to playback mode.... it is broken so that it doesn't go into camera mode any more. The other two modes work fine. The lens itself works fine. The 760 has visibly split along the bottom seams... it is literally coming apart, although it still holds together just fine, and it was thin enough to begin with that most people never notice the bottom is open by a couple of millimeters. The zoom lever at the top of the camera is also kind of sticky, so it's hard to zoom in and out. But the lens itself works fine, and the camera itself still performs admirably. Note, this is all due to hard wear/abuse... repeatedly being dropped on hard concrete, etc. Not on purpose of course, but just due to clumsiness or inattention.

Now on to the good side... you can safely say that your battery worries are over. Do NOT buy anything that uses AA's. Buy something with a proprietary LiIon battery and you're pretty much guaranteed 150+ shots per charge. Sometimes 300+ shots per charge. (Depending on whether you use the flash or not, etc.) This is enough to last all day for most people, and even a week-long vacation for some people. Aftermarket no-name batteries tend to come pretty cheap too.

People complaining of image quality issues in most modern cameras are simply spoiled. They want every photo to look like it came from a $3500 DSLR. There are compromises in making something that can fit in your pocket. Suffice to say, the image quality should be notably improved from your Sony. It's not like the camera makers are taking steps backward in image quality. The camera pros can nit-pick all day, but to most people the image quality issues are simply a non-issue.
 

Compman55

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Ok then..... I will certainly check out the SX230HS locally. Very interesting read again. Thanks.
 

Compman55

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Does anyone have thoughts on the Nikon S8200?

I really liked it when I used at best buy. I am finding hard to pick between the canon SX230HS and the S8200.

Any opinions?
 

slashbinslashbash

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I think the S8200 is attractive. I am a bit gunshy of Nikon P&S's since they kind of went wandering in the wilderness for a while about 2004-ish and only in the past couple of years have they really started trying again to compete in the P&S realm. So in the interim I went with Panasonic and Canon, so I am more used to their interfaces and general look and feel. However, I would think that the S8200 is fairly competitive. Probably wouldn't choose it for myself, but I might if the price were right. Then again, I am a picky photographer.

In a comparison, the Canon SX230 narrowly beat the Nikon S9100, which is higher-end than the S8100 but older than the S8200/S9200.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/TRAVELZOOM/TRAVELZOOMA6.HTM
 

AnitaPeterson

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Apr 24, 2001
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Can I chime in?

First of all, OP, a word of advice: look for stereo microphones on whichever camera you end up getting. You say you want 1080p - what's the point pairing it with audio which sounds like it comes from a $1 microphone, recorded under water?

Second... unlike you, I have had NOTHING but good experiences with all my cameras running AA batteries (and that goes a long way back, to 2003, when I first got a HP210, then a Canon A310, then a Canon S3, then the Canon SX1). In my experience, two-three sets of good Eneloops or some reliable NiMH batteries(2700mAh and above) are just as reliable as a Li-Ion cell. In fact, I'm still miffed about the fact that my SX40 now uses proprietary stuff, instead of the tried-and-true AAs. It sounds like the Sony you mention had other issues...

You can probably guess by now that I'm a Canon fan, but I'm honest enough to admit that other brands can also make great products. In fact, my SO and I went looking for a camera a couple of years ago, and although I had been suggesting the SX200 (the precursor of the SX230 HS) at the beginning, we ended up agreeing that the comparably-priced Panasonic ZS7 was a much better camera.
 

you2

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Yea; in that link they suggested the ZS8 and noted that the ZS10 was a dog. You have to be careful here in that models with near numbers or this year model might not be as good as last year. Newer is not always better (this mostly a comment on the nikon s8200).

I know the sx230 is a decent camera; though not perfect. I know nothing about the S8200 and would not buy a camera without reasonable research (historically nikon started out with really good P&S; but then for 4 or 5 years produced some real dogs; very recently they started paying more attention to their P&S line and they have been improving). Panasonic has a history of very good P&S but again certain models are not as good as others.
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Anyways hte panaosnic ZS8 is listed as $180 and is well ranked by imaging resources. I've personally have not used this camera nor look into the feature set but it is worth examining. I personallywould be leary of the nikon for the reasons mentioned above. Canon tends to make solid but not perfect P&S. Last year models are always appealing when you mention a budget as they tend ot be $50 to $100 cheaper than the most current model.
 

Compman55

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The nikon on S8200 had two slits for L & R mic. Does the canon SX230HS have stereo mic? This will be important for me.

Although I liked the S8200 in person, I had trouble keeping the video in focus while zooming. Lots of reviewers mentioned this as well. Real bummer.......

I guess I am back at the SX230HS, and hope it is stereo.
 

Compman55

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On the canon website, I cannot any anyhting but this:

Audio Out
Stereo (dedicated connector (female) with unified type of digital, audio and video)

Does this mean videos will be recorded in stereo? One can only assume.
 

twistedlogic

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According to dpreview:

"Audio is recording using a built-in stereo microphone."

So yes it does record in stereo. I just wonder how this is accomplished though.
 

Compman55

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Lastly,a few reviewers state it is mandatory to use canons software to do anything with the photos as they are in .CTG extensions. Windows 7 and OSx will not recognize them without this software. Is there any truth to this?
 

you2

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Hum. As far as I remember the camera produced jpg with jpg extension; I had no problem with processing them on my linux box for which canon provide no software.

Btw you can take a sdhc card with you to best buy and shoot some sample images (some stores put braces that block the sdhc slot; some don't - also wolf tend to have some of the models without braces).
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One of the reviews (imaging resources?) indicated that the sound quality on the sx230 was decent; but if video is your primary aim then the sony h9v is the better model (though ti is a bit more than your stated budget). The sx230 weak point is CA. Historically panasonic corrects for CA in their camera post processing (i.e, jpg).
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Canon strong point is very good resolution and not having any horrible weak points other than CA as well as decent results at higher ISO (400 is usable).
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Also when you finally pick a model be sure to check out some of the user reviews on amazon; the trick here is when someone dings a camera see if what they disliked bothers you (i.e, read the text don't just look at the number of '*').

Lastly,a few reviewers state it is mandatory to use canons software to do anything with the photos as they are in .CTG extensions. Windows 7 and OSx will not recognize them without this software. Is there any truth to this?
 
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AnitaPeterson

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When you mention the canons weak point is CA, I don;t know that is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromatic_aberration

*edit* and the .CTG extensions you saw mentioned are like the .m3u (playlist) files for Winamp. They don't have any image information; they're just library files.

See here: http://www.fileinfo.com/extension/ctg

*edit 2* In the first picture at this link - http://www.photographyblog.com/news/canon_powershot_sx230_hs_and_sx220_hs/ - you can see the stereo microphones on the SX230 HS, flanking the lens (one is right under the "14 MP", the other near the focus assist lamp). Which is good, because it provides serious stereo separation.
 
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slashbinslashbash

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Chromatic Aberration. It is something that only photography nerds really care about. It usually shows up as a purple "fringe" around objects when there is a bright sky behind them. You can see it sometimes, but it is hardly noticeable at normal resolutions (it is usually only a couple of pixels, so if you are viewing a 12 megapixel image on a 2 megapixel screen, you usually can't see it), and if it really bugs you, it's not hard to correct in Photoshop or something. It has been around forever in photography, and most normal people just accept it as a simple artifact of the camera lens (which it is). It is only with the advent of digital photography and "pixel peeping" that people have started whining about it excessively. Example:

Nikon-24-120mm-Chromatic-Aberration.jpg