Recognititon of Jewish State for renewed Moratorium

[JEDIYoda]

So lets see how this plays out!!
Whats interesting is this is such a creative thing that essentially means the palestini9ans have to give up nothing.

IMO its now up to the Palestinians to respond. Let us see who really wants Peace.....

Whats the issue with recognizing Israel as a Jewish state?
Besides the ones mis-represented by Lemon law due to his addiction shrooms!!!
It is anyways -- so why not say -- OK we recognize israel as a Jewish State and throw the ball back into Netenyahu`s court?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101011/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

JERUSALEM – Israel's prime minister on Monday offered to extend a moratorium on Jewish settlement construction in the West Bank, but only if the Palestinians meet his demand to recognize Israel as a Jewish state.

With the proposal, Benjamin Netanyahu attempted to deliver a creative way to end an impasse over settlement construction that has stalled Mideast peace talks just a month after they were launched at the White House. But with its tough conditions, it was swiftly rejected by the Palestinians.

Netanyahu has been under heavy international pressure to renew a just-expired 10-month slowdown on West Bank settlement construction. The Palestinians say they will walk away from the talks if the curbs do not remain in place.

Netanyahu, who leads a pro-settler coalition of religious and nationalist parties, has so far resisted the calls, but has signaled he is open to a compromise. U.S. mediators have been offering a series of vague assurances on the security and diplomatic fronts to mollify Israel, but so far a deal has been elusive.

In a policy speech to parliament, Netanyahu said he would renew the settlement curbs if the Palestinians recognize the Jewish connection to Israel.

"If the Palestinian leadership would say unequivocally to its people that it recognizes Israel as the national homeland of the Jewish people, I will be willing to convene my government and ask for an additional suspension," he said in a speech that was repeatedly heckled by Arab lawmakers.

Netanyahu has repeatedly made similar demands in the past, though he has never explicitly linked it to the settlement issue. On Sunday, Netanyahu's Cabinet passed a bill that would require non-Jewish immigrants to pledge allegiance to the "Jewish and democratic" state of Israel in order to receive citizenship.

The Palestinians refuse to accept Israel as a Jewish state, saying it discriminates against Israel's Arab minority and violates the rights of millions of Palestinian refugees scattered around the world. Instead, they say it is sufficient that they recognize Israel's right to exist.
Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat accused Netanyahu of "playing games" and said he saw no connection between Jewish settlements and Israel's national character.

"I don't see a relevance between his obligations under international law and him trying to define the nature of Israel," he said. "I hope he will stop playing these games and will start the peace process by stopping settlements."

Some 300,000 Jewish settlers live in the West Bank, in addition to nearly 200,000 Israelis living in Jewish neighborhoods in east Jerusalem.

The Palestinians claim both areas, captured by Israel in the 1967 Mideast war, as parts of a future independent state and say that continued Israeli settlement construction sends a message that Israel is not serious about reaching peace.

 

[Freshgeardude]

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=190990

The spokesman for Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas on Monday rejected Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu's offer to extend the settlement freeze in the territories for the PA's recognition of Israel as the national state of the Jewish people.

"The topic of the Jewishness of the state is not connected at all to the issue [of the building freeze]," said the spokesman.

Netanyahu had made the bold offer during his speech at the opening of the winter session of the Knesset earlier in the day.

In his speech, the prime minister challenged his Palestinian counterparts to continue the peace talks by saying he would initiate a cabinet proposal to renew a settlement moratorium if the Palestinian Authority would declare its recognition of Israel as a national home for the Jewish people.

Netanyahu's comments put an end to a couple of weeks of speculation regarding how he would deal with the moratorium issue.

He said that Palestinian recognition would be an important "confidence building measure" and would send an important positive message to the Israeli people of Palestinian intentions.

Netanyahu said that he sent this message to the Palestinians through a variety of channels.

Of course Abbas rejected the offer.


Abbas wanted to make a non-issue from the past (settlements) an issue and claims this issue (recognition) isnt related.


and he will obviously get his backing by the Arab League, since none of those countries recognize israel as a jewish state. (except probably egypt and jordan, who both, if i recall correctly, recognized israel as a jewish state)

 

[bfdd]

Poor decision by Abbas imo. I'd almost consider it petty of Israel to ask that, but they've been after recognition for longer than I've been alive.

 

[EagleKeeper]

For the Pals to accept such; it implies that Israel has a right to exist and the demands of Right of Return go out the window. That is politically unaccpetable for any Pal leader.

 

[Freshgeardude]

its not even something imo a big deal.

israel's declaration stated it is a jewish country.

all they want is their neighbor to understand that

 

[routan]

its not even something imo a big deal.

israel's declaration stated it is a jewish country.

all they want is their neighbor to understand that

I thought a nation based on religious grounds was the biggest no-no on AT?

And that dividing a country based on believers and non-believers was an AT cardinal sin?

How quickly people show their hypocrisy and open display of bigotry. Remarkable.

 

[Jhhnn]

In Israel, all animals are created equal, except that some animals (the jewish ones) are more equal than others.

 

[peonyu]

Recognition is a big deal. When your neighbors dont recognize your right to exist it is the same as saying we will tolerate you for now...But we are going to fuck you up later. Its a threat, and if the Power balance ever swings out of Israel's favor and the Arabs become militarily dominant in the M.East then Israel is fucked. Or more precisely, the Jews in Israel are fucked.

 

[routan]

Recognition is a big deal. When your neighbors dont recognize your right to exist it is the same as saying we will tolerate you for now...But we are going to fuck you up later. Its a threat, and if the Power balance ever swings out of Israel's favor and the Arabs become militarily dominant in the M.East then Israel is fucked. Or more precisely, the Jews in Israel are fucked.

peonyu, what are you on about? did you even read the OP?

its not recognition of a state, its recognition of a JEWISH only state.

And you honestly think that if today Israel is recognised, and then power balance shifts to Arabs, the recognition would stop the Arabs from doing something if they wanted to?

thispostlulz

 

[QuantumPion]

I thought a nation based on religious grounds was the biggest no-no on AT?

And that dividing a country based on believers and non-believers was an AT cardinal sin?

How quickly people show their hypocrisy and open display of bigotry. Remarkable.

It's not hypocrisy, it just depends on the religion. For example, if the religion's stated goals are world domination, murder of all infidels, and enslavement of women, yes we are against that. But if the majority population of a country wants to vote to have an officially sponsored state religion that is relatively sane, that's probably ok.

 

[QuantumPion]

In Israel, all animals are created equal, except that some animals (the jewish ones) are more equal than others.

No no you got that backwards. It's the Qur'an that describes Jews as being dirty and lower then animals. In Israel, Israeli-arabs have all the same rights and privileges as Jewish citizens.

 

[Aegeon]

peonyu, what are you on about? did you even read the OP?

its not recognition of a state, its recognition of a JEWISH only state.

You should frankly stop trying to make things up.

Other than possibly some real radical extremist nowhere close to being in charge of anything, no is talking about anything like that.

While Israel wants to promote its Jewish identify and avoid a situation where every single individual distantly related to a Palestinian once in Israel temperarily returns to do so something like vote to expel all the Jews from Israel, there remain 1.2 million Arab (non-Jewish) Citizens of Israel with full voting rights and the like.

Frankly a bunch of discussions involving Israel have its detractors try to ignore this detail and pretend those citizens don't exist since its inconvenient for their rhetoric.

 

[Anarchist420]

A lot of Jews wouldn't want Israel to be recognized as a Jewish state.

 

[routan]

No no you got that backwards. It's the Qur'an that describes Jews as being dirty and lower then animals. In Israel, Israeli-arabs have all the same rights and privileges as Jewish citizens.

QuantumPion, what bullcrap. Show me where it says this?

 

[routan]

It's not hypocrisy, it just depends on the religion. For example, if the religion's stated goals are world domination, murder of all infidels, and enslavement of women, yes we are against that. But if the majority population of a country wants to vote to have an officially sponsored state religion that is relatively sane, that's probably ok.

QuantumPion, which religion's stated goal is world domination, murder of all infidels, and enslavement of women?

 

[routan]

You should frankly stop trying to make things up.

Other than possibly some real radical extremist nowhere close to being in charge of anything, no is talking about anything like that.

While Israel wants to promote its Jewish identify and avoid a situation where every single individual distantly related to a Palestinian once in Israel temperarily returns to do so something like vote to expel all the Jews from Israel, there remain 1.2 million Arab (non-Jewish) Citizens of Israel with full voting rights and the like.

Frankly a bunch of discussions involving Israel have its detractors try to ignore this detail and pretend those citizens don't exist since its inconvenient for their rhetoric.

Aegeon, you should READ. From the Original Post:

JERUSALEM – Israel's prime minister on Monday offered to extend a moratorium on Jewish settlement construction in the West Bank, but only if the Palestinians meet his demand to recognize Israel as a Jewish state.

 

[Freshgeardude]

peonyu, what are you on about? did you even read the OP?

its not recognition of a state, its recognition of a JEWISH only state.

Did YOU even read the OP?


Israel wants recognition to be known as a jewish state.

that doesnt mean ONLY jewish.


In israel's declaration of statehood, they said they were a jewish state.

this has been said since the beginning.

 

[JSt0rm]

As most of you know I'm not in lock step with Israel at every turn but this was a bad move for the Palestinians.

 

[Aegeon]

Aegeon, you should READ. From the Original Post

Indeed you should read.

The quote contradicts your claim and supports mine.

It clearly does not have only anywhere in the quotation or elsewhere period. The rest of my point is clearly supported by the basic facts involved in this situation.

 

[routan]

Did YOU even read the OP?


Israel wants recognition to be known as a jewish state.

that doesnt mean ONLY jewish.


In israel's declaration of statehood, they said they were a jewish state.

this has been said since the beginning.

Freshgeardude, I see where we have a misunderstanding. I say "Jewish only" meaning recognizing Israel as a Jewish state as a land for Jewish people, not for the Arabs, or non-Jews.

You say its NOT only for the Jews, but also for the Arabs.

Then I dont understand why there is a need to be recognized as Jewish State at all, if it is a land for Jews and Arabs?

As I understand it, every Jew in the world can come live in Israel. Why not Arabs? Pure religious bias?

 

[routan]

Indeed you should read.

The quote contradicts your claim and supports mine.

It clearly does not have only anywhere in the quotation or elsewhere period. The rest of my point is clearly supported by the basic facts involved in this situation.

Aegeon, please see above, to clear the misunderstanding.

 

[woolfe9999]

In Israel, all animals are created equal, except that some animals (the jewish ones) are more equal than others.

Care to substantiate this by presenting an empirical case, consisting of evidence, that Israeli Arabs are treated less well that minorities in other developed democracies? For example, do you have evidence that they are treated less well than say blacks and hispanics in the U.S. circa 2010? Do you even *know* how well Israeli Arabs are treated?

- wolf

 

[RabidMongoose]

No no you got that backwards. It's the Qur'an that describes Jews as being dirty and lower then animals. In Israel, Israeli-arabs have all the same rights and privileges as Jewish citizens.

I doubt that...I'd think that it treats Jewish people better than lots of people of other faiths.

 

[Lemon law]

First of all I note that the settlement freeze offer extends to only the West Bank and not to East Jerusalem.

Second, I can imagine the Palestinians recognizing the Israeli State's right to exist as part of a final settlement, but I doubt anyone on the Arab or Palestinian side would recognize Israel as a Jewish religious State.

Third, Netanyuhu has only said he would try to sell the idea to his cabinet and failing that, Netanyuhu is only offering vaporware and not a hard and well defined deal. And since the offer is now vague and not well defined, we must somewhat assume that Israel will later try to put in other restrictive clauses to sweeten the deal for Israel.

Fourth, I don't see Netanyuhu offering to recognize Hamas. Nor has he recognized Abbas, or anyone else the recognition to deal for the Palestinian people.

Fifth, since the USA is the official broker of the talks, and the USA is also consulting with other international entities, we have yet to get feedback from any of them yet.

But only time will tell if the deal will ever even partially get off the ground. But judging by the initial reaction, its too little too late as time ticks down to 10/27/10.

 

[theeedude]

Care to substantiate this by presenting an empirical case, consisting of evidence, that Israeli Arabs are treated less well that minorities in other developed democracies? For example, do you have evidence that they are treated less well than say blacks and hispanics in the U.S. circa 2010? Do you even *know* how well Israeli Arabs are treated?

- wolf

Hispanics aren't forced to pledge allegiance to the US as a Protestant Anglo-Saxon state.