Receiver: Multi Room

[StarsFan4Life]

Morning everyone.....

My wife and I are purchasing a home and we close on it in less than 4 weeks (April 30th). This is a brand new home that was used as the model for the subdivison (sold out fast). We got a hell of a deal on this house.....everything you can think of is premium or upgraded.

Because of this, they wired and installed speakers in the following:

* Living Room - 2 rectangular in the wall at the front / 2 round in the ceiling for the rear speakers

* Foyer - 2 round in the ceiling with volume control knob on the wall in the foyer

* Kitchen - 2 round in the ceiling with volume control knob on the wall in the kitchen

* Master Bedroom - 2 round in the ceiling with volume control know on the wall in the master bedroom

All of these speakers come back into the wall in the living room behind the entertainment center to be controlled by a receiver. Right now I have a Sony STR-DG520 5.1 I bought from Fry's that controls my home theater system I currently have:

* Sony STR-DG520 5.1

* Infinity Primus P362 x2 floor standing speakers for the front

* Infinity Primus PC350 center channel speakers

* Infinity Primus P142 Rear speakers

* Infinity Primus PS-10 Sub woofer

This receiver seems to do just fine. I can crank these speakers without distortion and a clean crisp sound. I do realize I could do better. That is why I am here. I realize that this Sony receiver CANNOT handle all of these speaker I have plus the speakers in the house.

I went to Fry's and spoke with a dude that actually knew his stuff. He showed me a couple of different models....but one that really stuck out to me was the Onkyo TX-SR706b (and 606b) models. I think it would be nice to have multi zone's going (watching a movie in the living room....radio playing in all the other rooms) but this might be a bit too much.

I want to be able to use the PS-10 sub woofer, the PC350 center channel speaker and the two P362 floor standing speakers(instead of the two in-wall speakers that are already installed). However, I would like to use these two in wall speakers in a different zone.

Attached are two images.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2618/floorplansetup.jpg

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8430/floorplanzones.jpg

What I would like to have is two channels/zones. These would include:

Zone/Channel 1: Home Theater (Infinity PS10/PC350/P362 and the two in ceiling speakers as rear - all in the living/family room

Zone/Channel 2: Speakers in Foyer, Kitchen, Master Bedroom and the two in wall front speakers in the living room

Essentially what I would like to do is to be able to:

* Turn on only the zone/channel 1 speakers while we are watching TV/movie

* Turn on only zone/channel 2 when only want to listen to music or whatever all throughout the house

* Turn ALL speakers on for music

What receiver do you guys suggest here? Do I need to spend $600 on the Onkyo TX-SR706b?


I DO NOT WANT TO USE THE SONY RECEIVER I HAVE...I UNDERSTAND I NEED TO REPLACE. I am here to ask what you guys recommend I replace it with.

 

[s44]

What are the volume controls hooked up to? What are the specs of the in-walls & in-ceilings?

 

[StarsFan4Life]

Since I am not in the house at the moment, I am not sure. Should the volume controls be hooked up to something?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

I don't have any experience with built-in speakers. Are those powered by amps at the volume controls, or are there speaker level connections in the HT area for your own amps to power them?

If you need amplification, you could use the Sony in 5-channel stereo mode to power 5 of the zone 2 speakers, right?

So a new receiver hooked up for the HT room with zone 2 pre-outs going to an analog input on the Sony receiver?

That would only give you power for 5 speakers in the rest of the house though rather than 6. Maybe skip one of the ones next to the garage?

Seems like the speakers behind the 362s would not need to be hooked up to anything since the 362s would make them unnecessary?

 

[StarsFan4Life]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello


Seems like the speakers behind the 362s would not need to be hooked up to anything since the 362s would make them unnecessary?

Yes and no......because if I want zone 2 going but don't want my P362's going, these would be used.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Why would you want to listen to the in-wall speakers rather than the 362s? Are they better?

If you want to listen to music, you can turn zone 1 and zone 2 to the same source and use the 362s instead of the in-wall.

I guess I don't understand the logic. If you have two sets of speakers right next to each other, why would you want to use the worse ones in any case?

 

[s44]

Well, unless the volume controls mean there are amps already there, you're going to need both a new receiver AND a new amp. The new receiver should have Zone 2 capability, but it doesn't have to be powered (you'll be using the amp anyway). The amp needs to power four zones (eight channels) from one source...

I'd forget using the Sony altogether.

 

[StarsFan4Life]

Originally posted by: s44

I'd forget using the Sony altogether.

This is the plan....I am here to ask for suggestions on receivers/amps for this setup.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

What sources are you hoping to play one zone 2?

Note that in many cases, (706 included I believe) zone 2 can only output analog sources.

As for giving up on the Sony, I agree that it should not be the main unit anymore, but why get rid of it when you could use it to power 5 of the speakers? Planning on selling it or using it for something else?

 

[s44]

OK. The cheapest 4-zone amp looks like this one for ~$350 shipped. 30 WPC, but I assume you aren't going to blast this to reference levels.

Any Zone 2 receiver should work -- just hook the multizone amp into the receiver's zone 2 pre-outs. I haven't seen any with a specific mode that lets you select the same source for both zones, but you can do so manually. Note that most receivers can't feed digital signals into zone 2 (only one set of DACs!), so you may have to double connect your digital sources with stereo RCA plugs as well.

 

[StarsFan4Life]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
What sources are you hoping to play one zone 2?

Note that in many cases, (706 included I believe) zone 2 can only output analog sources.

As for giving up on the Sony, I agree that it should not be the main unit anymore, but why get rid of it when you could use it to power 5 of the speakers? Planning on selling it or using it for something else?

1. I would like to be able to use AM/FM (possibly HD radio) and stream music from my PS3.

2. I am not saying I want to get rid of the Sony. I could use it to power "zone 2" for sure....but might end up putting it in my office with the P142's (since I won't be using them for 5.1 rears).

I might end up also running one or two speaker outside in the backyard.

 

[s44]

5? Which of his stereo pairs is he going to assign as his "center"?

C'mon, the idea is silly. It will power two of his pairs at most. That leaves two unused. That leaves him needing another unit anyway.

 

[StarsFan4Life]

Originally posted by: s44
OK. The cheapest 4-zone amp looks like this one for ~$350 shipped. 30 WPC, but I assume you aren't going to blast this to reference levels.

Any Zone 2 receiver should work -- just hook the multizone amp into the receiver's zone 2 pre-outs. I haven't seen any with a specific mode that lets you select the same source for both zones, but you can do so manually. Note that most receivers can't feed digital signals into zone 2 (only one set of DACs!), so you may have to double connect your digital sources with stereo RCA plugs as well.

I should add the by no means am I going to be BLASTING the zone two speakers....these will be on with decent sound coming out.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: s44
5? Which of his stereo pairs is he going to assign as his "center"?

C'mon, the idea is silly. It will power two of his pairs at most. That leaves two unused. That leaves him needing another unit anyway.

He can certainly spend $350 if he wants to get them all working, but one of the stereo pairs seems superfluous to me since he has a pair of speakers right next to them in the same room.

The number of speakers in the middle / lower area of the diagram seems a bit excessive as well.

Considering the proximity of all the speakers in the Foyer area to the Family room, I thought that hooking one of those two up to the mixed center channel output of the Sony's 5 channel stereo mode would be an appropriate compromise.

Just for example, if instead of buying a $600 706 and a $350 amplifier, he could get a $900 Onkyo 876 for example.

He'd get 3 zones of control including a powered zone 2 for more playback options, he'd get superior audyssey room correction, better video scaling, etc.

With the Sony he has at least a 4 channel amp there, so I thought he could reuse it as an option that would allow for either saving several hundred dollars or he could get a better receiver as his main that would account for some of the functionality lost from having to use the Sony for part of the multizone setup.

I'm not saying that one way is better than the other for sure, but I wanted to see if reusing the existing equipment would give him better options.

Considering the limitations of Zone 2, having another receiver in the mix with digital inputs would give him the option of hooking up digital sources to the second zone for at least some of the speakers as well.

 

[StarsFan4Life]

Would I really need a receiver and an AMP?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

If the volume controls for these rooms have amps built in, then you don't need a separate amp and the 706 or something like it should work fine on its own.

If there are no amps in the system and it's just speaker wire hookups for the other zones, then you're going to need amplification for all those other speakers.

That means buying a multichannel amplifier, or using your existing sony to power some of them.

If you get a receiver that has a powered zone 2 output, I think you should be able to get 6 out of the 8 zone 2 speakers going with just the new receiver + the sony.

If you're willing to use the speakers in the family room disconnected (which I think it reasonable since you have better speakers right next to them which can serve their purpose), then you should be able to get 6 speakers playing back your zone 2 material by reusing the sony.

 

[s44]

Yes -- zone 2 speaker-level outputs on a AVR are only one stereo pair. So to power more than two secondary zone speakers you need some sort of separate amp.

Btw, if you spend $600 I think you can get a 806 for that these days (also, the 606 is back down to $400 at the Egg). You could also do fine with a Pioneer 1018, Yamaha 663 or 665, etc etc.

edit: The first thing you should do is see what those volume controls and speakers are attached to, and what brand the inbuilts are. Heck, maybe they're expensive Triads and you may be better off selling your Primus set. OK, probably not...

 

[StarsFan4Life]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
If the volume controls for these rooms have amps built in, then you don't need a separate amp and the 706 or something like it should work fine on its own.

If there are no amps in the system and it's just speaker wire hookups for the other zones, then you're going to need amplification for all those other speakers.

That means buying a multichannel amplifier, or using your existing sony to power some of them.

If you get a receiver that has a powered zone 2 output, I think you should be able to get 6 out of the 8 zone 2 speakers going with just the new receiver + the sony.

If you're willing to use the speakers in the family room disconnected (which I think it reasonable since you have better speakers right next to them which can serve their purpose), then you should be able to get 6 speakers playing back your zone 2 material by reusing the sony.

Ok....getting lot's of flack on the in wall speakers in the living room. I will remove these and sheetrock/paint!

Lol..

I want to keep this all to one receiver if possible. I talk with the builder soon and I will certainly ask him about the setup.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: StarsFan4Life

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
If the volume controls for these rooms have amps built in, then you don't need a separate amp and the 706 or something like it should work fine on its own.

If there are no amps in the system and it's just speaker wire hookups for the other zones, then you're going to need amplification for all those other speakers.

That means buying a multichannel amplifier, or using your existing sony to power some of them.

If you get a receiver that has a powered zone 2 output, I think you should be able to get 6 out of the 8 zone 2 speakers going with just the new receiver + the sony.

If you're willing to use the speakers in the family room disconnected (which I think it reasonable since you have better speakers right next to them which can serve their purpose), then you should be able to get 6 speakers playing back your zone 2 material by reusing the sony.

Ok....getting lot's of flack on the in wall speakers in the living room. I will remove these and sheetrock/paint!

Lol..

I want to keep this all to one receiver if possible. I talk with the builder soon and I will certainly ask him about the setup.

I'm not saying get rid of them, I'm just saying that I think that you can potentially save several hundred dollars if you use the 362s instead of the in-wall speakers since you wouldn't need to buy an 8 channel amp then.

The 706 could power one set of zone 2 speakers along with your 5.1 set and you sony could power two more pairs letting you power 6 out of the 8 speakers.

You could even get 7 out of the 8 going if you're willing to do mixed mono in one area with the center channel output of the sony.

Of course as we've mentioned before, all this talk might be useless if the volume controls indeed power the speakers.

Calling the builder to ask this would be an excellent idea. Otherwise, I believe you could easily determine this by seeing if the zone 2 control attachment in the family room has speaker wire connections or RCA connections.

 

[StarsFan4Life]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: StarsFan4Life

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
If the volume controls for these rooms have amps built in, then you don't need a separate amp and the 706 or something like it should work fine on its own.

If there are no amps in the system and it's just speaker wire hookups for the other zones, then you're going to need amplification for all those other speakers.

That means buying a multichannel amplifier, or using your existing sony to power some of them.

If you get a receiver that has a powered zone 2 output, I think you should be able to get 6 out of the 8 zone 2 speakers going with just the new receiver + the sony.

If you're willing to use the speakers in the family room disconnected (which I think it reasonable since you have better speakers right next to them which can serve their purpose), then you should be able to get 6 speakers playing back your zone 2 material by reusing the sony.

Ok....getting lot's of flack on the in wall speakers in the living room. I will remove these and sheetrock/paint!

Lol..

I want to keep this all to one receiver if possible. I talk with the builder soon and I will certainly ask him about the setup.

I'm not saying get rid of them, I'm just saying that I think that you can potentially save several hundred dollars if you use the 362s instead of the in-wall speakers since you wouldn't need to buy an 8 channel amp then.

The 706 could power one set of zone 2 speakers along with your 5.1 set and you sony could power two more pairs letting you power 6 out of the 8 speakers.

You could even get 7 out of the 8 going if you're willing to do mixed mono in one area with the center channel output of the sony.

Of course as we've mentioned before, all this talk might be useless if the volume controls indeed power the speakers.

Calling the builder to ask this would be an excellent idea. Otherwise, I believe you could easily determine this by seeing if the zone 2 control attachment in the family room has speaker wire connections or RCA connections.

Would it matter if only 1 wire went to the volume control knobs (one wire for each) that split to two speakers (since each room as two speakers per room). I don't think each speaker is a direct connection from the receiver.....but I could be wrong.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

I don't know enough about built in speakers to be able to give you a good enough answer on that.

I'm assuming that these are stereo pairs in each of these rooms, meaning that each room is going to need either two pairs of speaker wire going to it or two RCA connections to the amplifiers in the volume control units.

If there's only one connection per room, then I believe both speakers are going to end up playing mono of either the left or right stereo signal. Seems like an odd way to hook it up, but what do I know about these kind of installations? Nothing, that's what

 

[StarsFan4Life]

I really don't have a clear answer on if it is in fact 1 wire per room or not...

 

[StarsFan4Life]

Can we start naming some models here or is the Onkyo model's I provided sufficent or do I even need a 7.1 receiver since my home theater WILL NOT be 7.1....but 5.1 instead?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

A 7.1 receiver will power a 5.1 system perfectly.

You have to go pretty far down the lineup from most if not all companies to get a current model that's 5.1, so stick with 7.1

606/607 is probably as low as you want to go with the Onkyo lineup.

 

[StarsFan4Life]

Any other brands? Denon, Harmon?