Reccomend a low-end Intel board with 66MHz PCI? Gigabit Ethernet?

[CZroe]

I know it sounds like an oxymoron, but both are old technologies. I'm looking for a low-end board which supports 66MHz PCI. Integrated Gigabit would be a plus. At least one 66MHz slot with integrated Gigabit, two otherwise.

Also, how does Firewire networking compare to Gigabit (Even though it's usually limited by PCI bandwidth)?

 

[Lord Evermore]

It is an oxymoron and a paradox. No low-end board will have 66MHz PCI (unless you count older boards that only support older processors). Though the spec has allowed 66MHz for a long time, it's never been a consumer thing and has never "trickled down" to the low-end.

Well, I guess if you're talking about low-end server boards, there might be such a thing...

 

[CZroe]

Originally posted by: Lord Evermore
No low-end board will have 66MHz PCI (unless you count older boards that only support older processors).

That's exactly what I'm talking about (Bolded).

Why would a home fileserver need a high-end processor? It'll be running low-end RAID-5 first and Gigabit later, both of which demand a little more PCI bandwidth. I doubt there's ever been a socket 423 board with 66MHz PCI simply because Intel consideres high-end workstations to be Xeon's target audience since the PIII days, but I can hope can't I? Besides, a dual PIII board would be excellent. I saw a dual-PIII i820 chipset motherboard the other day with 64-bit PCI. The RDRAM from the socket 423 CPU board I just mentioned could have some use there

BTW, does anyone know if the dual-CPU PIII's could benefit from more than PC133 memory bandwidth? I know RAMBUS was pointless for the PIII otherwise, but if dual CPUs could make use of double the bandwidth

 

[Lord Evermore]

Well I didn't know what you were going to be using it for. What does a home fileserver need gigabit or RAID-5 for?

PPro, P2, P3, P4 and the Xeon variants use variations of the GTL bus -- one single bus between chipset and CPU, shared by all multiple processor configurations. Memory bandwidth only needs to match that one bus. This has always been one of the things that make people look at Intel and go "WTF?", especially as clock speeds go higher and higher and higher while bus speeds stagnated for awhile.

Single-channel RDRAM at 800MHz barely has more bandwidth than PC133 anyway, and higher latency.

At any rate, you'll probably end up with a Tyan or Supermicro board if you want a good stable system. Not sure who else makes boards that can be commonly purchased with such features.

 

[CZroe]

RAID-5 because I'd hate to loose 400GB and I'd hate to cut that down to 200GB. The combination of efficiency (300-of-400GB), speed (Striping) and protection (Parity) of RAID-5 appeal to me, especially with the $175 Promise FastTrak SX4000 going for less than $175 (I'm aware of it's low performance, that's why 66MHz PCI and a dedicated fileserver appeals to me more).

I assumed that if dual-channel RDRAM pairs with the P4's 400MHz-effective FSB, then single channel would be half-that; effectively, 200MHz, or twice the bandwidth of PC100 and therefore equal to DDR200 (Ignoring latency). DDR200 has effectively 50.37% more bandwidth than PC133. The latency hit of RDRAM over PC133 would probably be worth it if both CPUs together could make use of the 50% bandwidth increase. Oh well

Thnx for the suggestions. I'll lurk in FS/FT some more until I see something I can use show up. Thnx again!

 

[dexvx]

i840 is a Dual Channel RDRam board. If you use dual procs, it can really benefit from the added bandwidth provided. The i850 is based on the i840.

You might also want to check Dell servers. They have PCI-X, 64bit/33 Mhz PCI slots on their servers. Their low end 600SC, 1600SC servers are relatively cheap, and use Pentium4's or Xeons, or get an older version 600SC that can take Tualatin CPUs.

 

[zephyrprime]

Ebay seems to have plenty of exactly what you're looking for. I can't really recommend any model in particular though.

Does the xeon use a different socket than its regular counterparts?

 

[Lord Evermore]

A board can't benefit from dual-channel memory unless the CPU bus can make use of it. The 840 benefitted from a redesigned memory controller, the one in the 820 just sucked overall. Dual-channel PC800 makes 3.2GBps of bandwidth, while the 133MHz P3 bus only needs 1GBps. Onboard video with shared memory can use the extra bandwidth but 1.6GBps of one channel of memory would be enough with the usual ATI Rage video on that sort of board. P4 bus of course is perfectly matched with dual-channel PC800.

Dual-P3's still only have a single 133MHz frontside bus shared between them.

And yes, PC800 is 50% more bandwidth than PC133, but we're only talking 1GBps to 1.6GBps. Seemed like a lot back in the day, but anything less than 1GBps difference anymore gets laughed at.

 

[CZroe]

I almost forgot: PC400 RDRAM DID exist back then

I guess dual-channel provided a little benefit with that considering that it would be less than 1GBps in single-channel mode.

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: CZroe
I almost forgot: PC400 RDRAM DID exist back then

I guess dual-channel provided a little benefit with that considering that it would be less than 1GBps in single-channel mode.

No such thing as PC400 RDRam.

It ran at 400Mhz, DDR, so it was called PC800 RDRam. Effective 1.6GB/sec, dual channel that, and its 3.2GB/sec. A single P3 on a i840 could not use it, but it benefitted from a better memory controller and lower latency. If you have dual P3's, now that would fully take advantage of it

 

[CZroe]

Sounds like you don't remember the introduction of RDRAM.

There was! When I built my 1.3GHz Williamette machine, it was widely available in PC400, PC600 and PC800 varieties. You can set the divider for PC400, 600 & 800 in an Asus P2B BIOS. With PC800 set to 600, you could bump the CPU's FSB a little back when RDRAM couldn't overclock well.

 

[Lord Evermore]

devx: You seem to be ignoring what I keep saying. The Pentium bus, from PPro to P4 (and even Pentium Classic with the HX chipset in dual configurations) only has one path to the chipset and memory controller. Each chip does not get its own path to the chipset. More memory bandwidth does not help a P3 system in any way, only the improved memory controller made i840 worth having for a P3. A P3 with a 133MHz bus has only 1GBps of bandwidth to the chipset. Two chips only has 1GBps between them. Four chips only has 1GBps between them. The GTL bus is a shared bus, not a point to point bus like the EV6 Athlon bus.

The only RDRAM I ever saw was PC600, 700, and 800. I never heard of PC400, the only reason they made 600 and 700 was because yields were extremely low at 800MHz so they needed a way to recoup those chips. Now, you might have been able to set the speed that low, but I don't think there was officially any PC400. Certainly the i820 only supported 600, 700, and 800.

The P2B also used SDRAM. :-D And PC100 at that.

 

[CZroe]

Oops, P4-B, s423

I think I was just sticking to even-numbered hundreds or something. I was wondering why Pricewatch only had PC600 now. BTW, I know you've seen PC1066 right?

The only RDRAM I ever saw was PC600, 700, and 800.

J/K

 

[Lord Evermore]

I meant back then.