Reasons why U.S. continues to allow Illegal Immigration.

[Mayfriday0529]

This comes from my Anthropology professor.

1. 1. We need illegal immigration to take the crappy job that Americans don?t want. (yeah I understand this one)

1. 2. We need immigration because without it our population would decline and there would not be a new generation available to take both the crappy and other jobs. According to census data White?s are only having about 1.7 children. While Hispanics are having about 2.3 children. Hispanics are the highest by the way. If you were to take out the Hispanic population which account for most immigration, within 50 years there would be a rapid decline in our population.

So for this reason our government continues not to really close the borders completely.

 

[BlancoNino]

We don't need a steady increase in population.

I have no problem with immigration, so long as the immigrants pay for government services dollar for dollar. This includes sending their children to a public school.

 

[Genx87]

#1 is a bunch of crap, those jobs would pay better if there wasnt a black market for labor that is forced to work for such low wages for fear of being tossed out.
You make these people legal and close the border, the crappy jobs that pay crap would see a supply of willing workers start to dry, with it, an increase in wages paid.

2. I agree we do need immigration to help sustain our growth, however, illegal immigration is not the way to do it.

 

[Mayfriday0529]

Originally posted by: Genx87
#1 is a bunch of crap, those jobs would pay better if there wasnt a black market for labor that is forced to work for such low wages for fear of being tossed out.
You make these people legal and close the border, the crappy jobs that pay crap would see a supply of willing workers start to dry, with it, an increase in wages paid.

2. I agree we do need immigration to help sustain our growth, however, illegal immigration is not the way to do it.

If i'm an illegal immigrant making $3 dollars an hour picking up strawberries and the goverment makes me legal or able to work any job with regular pay. Why would i go back to picking strawberries when I can now get a better job with more pay. So now i quit and move on to something better.
The strawberry market now needs new workers. They now need more illegal immigrants or like you said would have to pay $10 an hour to legal immigrants. But going back to the legal status, why would I go back. I can make almost the same amount at McDonalds were is better.

I don't thats just my opinion.

 

[Genx87]

That is the point of closing off the border. Making these people legal while leaving the floodgates open accomplishes nothing, except pander to illegals for votes(a whole other thread).

Making them legal and closing off the border will force the strawberry farms to pay their workers a minimum wage. If they are legal and move to McDonalds for 10 bucks an hour, the strawberry farm now has to compete with McDonalds for that worker and will pay more.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: Jnetty99

Originally posted by: Genx87
#1 is a bunch of crap, those jobs would pay better if there wasnt a black market for labor that is forced to work for such low wages for fear of being tossed out.
You make these people legal and close the border, the crappy jobs that pay crap would see a supply of willing workers start to dry, with it, an increase in wages paid.

2. I agree we do need immigration to help sustain our growth, however, illegal immigration is not the way to do it.

If i'm an illegal immigrant making $3 dollars an hour picking up strawberries and the goverment makes me legal or able to work any job with regular pay. Why would i go back to picking strawberries when I can now get a better job with more pay. So now i quit and move on to something better.
The strawberry market now needs new workers. They now need more illegal immigrants or like you said would have to pay $10 an hour to legal immigrants. But going back to the legal status, why would I go back. I can make almost the same amount at McDonalds were is better.

I don't thats just my opinion.

Genx87 is right about it being a black market. And black markets mess with the free market economy. If no one will work for $3 an hour to pick strawberries, then either a: pay the crop pickers more or b: raise the price of strawberries and reduce output. The strawberry market will adjust itself. Using illegal immigrants who work for less than minimum wage and don't pay taxes are only messing with Adam Smith's invisible hand.

Many people around here will pay immigrants to do something as simple as cut their grass, because it's cheap. There's no other reason. 10 years ago these same people were cutting their own grass. Point is that the market created itself because of the low wages. Raise their wages to where they should be for the work that they do, and suddenly there is much, much less demand for their labor. Now we're left with a surplus of workers and a limited supply of jobs. Labor is a commodity just like any physical product, subject to the same laws of supply and demand.

 

[Albatross]

well,the nihilism and hedonism in the west may be a reason people ceased having chidren.if you don`t bother reproduce you will eventually get replaced.

 

[Legend]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
We don't need a steady increase in population.

I have no problem with immigration, so long as the immigrants pay for government services dollar for dollar. This includes sending their children to a public school.

Yes we do need more people. But not strawberry picking because we're in the information age, not the argriculutural. We need scientists, engineers, and other higher education specialists if we want any hope in competing with China or India in the future. With 3 times the population, we'd still have millions of acres of unpopulated land. We can handle it, but we need to work on alternate energy sources, build mass transit (like high speed trains across the nation) so we don't kill ourselves with our polluted lifestlye.

We need to enourage people to have children, and allow more educated people to immigrate here. I think the underlying problem is similar to our education -- our spoiled, lazy culture.

 

[Mayfriday0529]

Originally posted by: Legend

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
We don't need a steady increase in population.

I have no problem with immigration, so long as the immigrants pay for government services dollar for dollar. This includes sending their children to a public school.

Yes we do need more people. But not strawberry picking because we're in the information age, not the argriculutural. We need scientists, engineers, and other higher education specialists if we want any hope in competing with China or India in the future. With 3 times the population, we'd still have millions of acres of unpopulated land. We can handle it, but we need to work on alternate energy sources, build mass transit (like high speed trains across the nation) so we don't kill ourselves with our polluted lifestlye.

We need to enourage people to have children, and allow more educated people to immigrate here. I think the underlying problem is similar to our education -- our spoiled, lazy culture.

But this would take time. Immigrants that come to the U.S. have big dissadvantage especially Hispanic immigrants unlike Europeans. They will have to work low end jobs even if they are legal immigrants. Work years and year and hopefully have something to give to their new generation. The new generation will hopefully be an educated one that will finally gain some wealth and finally the second generation will hopefully be your so called Scientists and Engineers.

And you know Hispanic immigrants are taking the low end jobs because of Education. Not because they are not educated, but because third world educations don?t count in the U.S. they could have gone to the best schools but they mean crap in the U.S. meanwhile European education does count. Some get re-educated here in the U.S. but that takes a long time, between crappy jobs and family and learning English?

 

[fitzov]

It's because the fat cats care so much about poor Mexicans.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Jnetty99

Originally posted by: Legend

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
We don't need a steady increase in population.

I have no problem with immigration, so long as the immigrants pay for government services dollar for dollar. This includes sending their children to a public school.

Yes we do need more people. But not strawberry picking because we're in the information age, not the argriculutural. We need scientists, engineers, and other higher education specialists if we want any hope in competing with China or India in the future. With 3 times the population, we'd still have millions of acres of unpopulated land. We can handle it, but we need to work on alternate energy sources, build mass transit (like high speed trains across the nation) so we don't kill ourselves with our polluted lifestlye.

We need to enourage people to have children, and allow more educated people to immigrate here. I think the underlying problem is similar to our education -- our spoiled, lazy culture.

But this would take time. Immigrants that come to the U.S. have big dissadvantage especially Hispanic immigrants unlike Europeans. They will have to work low end jobs even if they are legal immigrants. Work years and year and hopefully have something to give to their new generation. The new generation will hopefully be an educated one that will finally gain some wealth and finally the second generation will hopefully be your so called Scientists and Engineers.

And you know Hispanic immigrants are taking the low end jobs because of Education. Not because they are not educated, but because third world educations don?t count in the U.S. they could have gone to the best schools but they mean crap in the U.S. meanwhile European education does count. Some get re-educated here in the U.S. but that takes a long time, between crappy jobs and family and learning English?

That is because Europeans arent swimming across the atlantic to get here. A lot of the people coming from Europe are well educated and offer something a higher end employer is looking for.

As for the 1st generation immigrants from Mexico having a hard time, this is how it works. European ancestors 100 years ago who came here were in the same boat, actually worse, becuase there wasnt the vast social system setup to help them out of a bind. If they could do it, these people can as well.

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: Legend

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
We don't need a steady increase in population.

I have no problem with immigration, so long as the immigrants pay for government services dollar for dollar. This includes sending their children to a public school.

Yes we do need more people. But not strawberry picking because we're in the information age, not the argriculutural. We need scientists, engineers, and other higher education specialists if we want any hope in competing with China or India in the future. With 3 times the population, we'd still have millions of acres of unpopulated land. We can handle it, but we need to work on alternate energy sources, build mass transit (like high speed trains across the nation) so we don't kill ourselves with our polluted lifestlye.

We need to enourage people to have children, and allow more educated people to immigrate here. I think the underlying problem is similar to our education -- our spoiled, lazy culture.

The US does need to worry about creating our "economic soldiers" to combat China and others. Spending billions in Iraq instead of creating alternatives to ME oil will put the US in trouble very soon.

The education system in the US is better than anywhere else.

 

[mattpegher]

I think that we are forgetting the long term effect of paying first generation illegals substandard wages. These immigrants are staying here and raising families. The first generation sees this country as a better place to live than where they came from, and are willing to work for substandard wages because these wages are more than there used to. There children won't see it that way, and their work ethic will be the same as any other child raised in slums. Some will hold on to there parent's value system and some will not. Even though the hispanic family value system is strong, this cannot overcome the financial reality.

Plus the vast majority of americans do not directly employ illegal immigrants. There is always some middle man/contractor/company who is reaping the vast majority of the profits from this labor. I don't know if any of the guys I see cutting lawns are legal or illegal but at $50 to $100 a cutting, I don't think I am benifiting from cheap labor.

 

[AAjax]

dbl post

 

[AAjax]

Originally posted by: AAjax

Originally posted by: Genx87
#1 is a bunch of crap, those jobs would pay better if there wasnt a black market for labor that is forced to work for such low wages for fear of being tossed out.
You make these people legal and close the border, the crappy jobs that pay crap would see a supply of willing workers start to dry, with it, an increase in wages paid.

2. I agree we do need immigration to help sustain our growth, however, illegal immigration is not the way to do it.

I agree, except perhaps with just giving citizenship away because someone was able to bumrush the door

 

[Drift3r]

You also need them to undermine any minimum wage hike you might see in this country. Can't let those leftist liberals increase the standard of living in this country.

 

[TheSlamma]

Because the US was founded on CHEAP labor? Doesn't want to give it up

 

[1EZduzit]

Cheap labor AND cheap food. Just don't get sick and you'll be OK.