Real Reason for Gun Control

JupiterJones

Senior member
Jun 14, 2001
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The following is from the BATF report on the raid of the Branch Davidian community at Mt. Carmel, outside Waco, TX. (Appendix G)

In a larger sense, however, the raid fit within an historic, well-established and well-defended government interest in prohibiting and breaking up all organized groups that sought to arm or fortify themselves.... From its earliest formation, the federal government has actively suppressed any effort by disgruntled or rebellious citizens to coalesce into an armed group, however small the group, petty its complaint, or grandiose its ambition.

Appendix G relates how the experience of Shay's Rebellion (1786-87), the Whiskey Rebellion (1794), Fries Rebellion (1799), the fugitive slave rescues of the 1850s, John Brown's raid on the Harper's Ferry federal arsenal (1859), the Civil War, Southern resistance to Reconstruction, the Pullman Strike (1894), etc., created an intolerance to organized, armed groups on the part of the federal government. This paranoia led Congress to pass the National Firearms Act of 1934, not "to curb the gangsters' ability to arm themselves" with automatic weapons and sawed-off shotguns as advertised, but "to discourage ownership of such weapons without outlawing them." It admits that "No self-respecting gangster would want to register, much less pay the tax, on his Tommygun." It goes on to say:

The passage of the National Firearms Act of 1934, the first federal effort to control ownership of firearms, grew out of this historic fear of armed organizations.... In recent times, the federal government has shown itself even less patient with armed groups.... As both history and recent events clearly show, the United States has never tolerated armed groups residing within its borders. The intent of the particular organization, whether ideological or criminal, mattered little.... ATF's enforcement focus retains the flavor of that historic concern with armed organizations.
 

Novgrod

Golden Member
Mar 3, 2001
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Fact for the day:

The whiskey rebellion was more or less legitimate, believe it or not. It was a peaceful (again more or less) protest about what was perceived as an illegitimate tax. Alexander Hamilton, who wanted a big phat state to compete with Europe directly, pushed G. W. to put it down militarily. And thus was ended Jefferson's idea that the blood of tyrants is necessary to water the tree of liberty.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
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<< Fact for the day:
The whiskey rebellion was more or less legitimate, believe it or not. It was a peaceful (again more or less) protest about what was perceived as an illegitimate tax. Alexander Hamilton, who wanted a big phat state to compete with Europe directly, pushed G. W. to put it down militarily. And thus was ended Jefferson's idea that the blood of tyrants is necessary to water the tree of liberty.
>>



I think the good that came out of the whole ordeal outweighed the bad though. The event showed that you actually had to listen to this brand new US government and if you didn't, it would be the law that handled you.

Remember also that no one got hurt when the assembled militia came through and though 2 people were charged with crimes, none were convicted
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Brigham Young declared Utah a Sovereign Nation-state and independent of the federal government (even had their own flag). The US millitary was sent out to qwell the mormon rebellion and resulted (this is very brief, he actually fought the government and won) in the founding of Ft. Douglas, the only Ft in the US where the cannons faced the city (at the time). How long till Koresh declared Waco an independent Nation-State?

PS. Ft douglas is the current housing for the olympic athletes.
 

JupiterJones

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Jun 14, 2001
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How long till Koresh declared Waco an independent Nation-State?

Rahvin,
What do you think would be an appropriate response if, say, Alabama declared itself an independent Nation-State thru an act of it's duly elected legislature?

Don
 

Maetryx

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2001
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Alaska actually has a political party that seeks independence from the Federal government. It's called (drum roll) The Alaska Independence Party. It lost a lot of steam about 10 years ago when Joe Vogler was murdered (founding member, I believe). But it's a good question from PastorDon. What is an appropriate response to a state that decides to remove itself from the United States of America?
 

rahvin

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
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<< What do you think would be an appropriate response if, say, Alabama declared itself an independent Nation-State thru an act of it's duly elected legislature? >>



Historical presidence seems to indicate this would not be tolerated. A more modern approach of course would be to immediately halt all interstate commerce, build a wall around the state and let them starve to death. But of course your question has little to do with the situation in question. Koresh was a religious loon, his group was not democratic nor were any of it's policies and dictates mandated by a duly elected representative body. What should the government do if a Religious Cult declares themselves a Sovereign Nation-State? Keeping in mind that recognition of that declaration is more important than the declaration itself. Would you consider the act treason?
 

JupiterJones

Senior member
Jun 14, 2001
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"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing Government, they can exercise their 'constitutional' right of amending it or their 'revolutionary' right to dismember or overthrow it." First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1861