Real income fell 2.2% last year...from $51,190 to $50,046.

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
126
How are those "service" jobs working out for the general population, eh? Not that it would sway any of the "free trade" fanboys out there.

Welcome to the new USA......the land of haves and have nots.

http://news.yahoo.com/us-data-reflects-economic-hard-times-230344831.html

Incomes and home values fell in the United States last year, and poverty grew, according to US government census data Thursday that laid bare the impact of economic hard times.

In a sweeping statistical snapshot of the nation, titled the American Community Survey, the Census Bureau said real median household income in 2010 slipped 2.2 percent from the previous year, from $51,190 to $50,046.

Feeling the pinch hardest were residents of Nevada, Connecticut and Vermont, where household incomes dropped 6.1 percent.

For a second year running, real median home value fell from $185,200 in 2009 to $179,900 in 2010, with the highest home values to be found in California, Hawaii, Massachusetts, New Jersey and Washington, DC.

The percentage of all families under the poverty line meanwhile grew from 10.5 percent in 2009 to 11.3 percent last year -- with 47.4 percent of single-mother households with children under five living in poverty.

In a separate report last week, the Census Bureau said 15.1 percent of all Americans were living in poverty last year.

The official federal poverty line is set at $22,314 for a family of four, and $11,139 for a single person.

Poverty grew faster in New York City last year than elsewhere in the United States, with more than 1.6 million or 20.1 percent of New Yorkers living in poverty, up from 18.7 percent and the highest level since 2000.

"Low-income New Yorkers have been hard hit by the recession and continuing jobs crisis," said Community Service Society of New York president David Jones, with Latinos and those without a high school diploma hardest hit.

In another barometer of the sluggish US economy, the number of workers employed in construction fell 8.8 percent in the year to 2010, the Census Bureau said.

The Census Bureau put the overall US population last year at 309.3 million people. Forty million -- or 12.9 percent -- who were born outside the country, a majority of them from Latin America.
 
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Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
126
Blame both parties in congress.

I blame EVERYONE, especially Congress and anyone else who pushes the so called "Free Trade" policies and agreements out there. The only thing free is giving the jobs to offshored companies while the money flows back to the top and it takes a bubble or government assistance to keep the illusion of a prospering middle class.

Hey Zebo...you need a partner in your booze business?
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
I blame EVERYONE, especially Congress and anyone else who pushes the so called "Free Trade" policies and agreements out there. The only thing free is giving the jobs to offshored companies while the money flows back to the top and it takes a bubble or government assistance to keep the illusion of a prospering middle class.

Hey Zebo...you need a partner in your booze business?

it's funny people pushing for "free trade" on our side when the other sides won't agree. I'm all for free trade when everyone is practicing it, but that's not the situation we're in. I blame all of our politicians and my countrymen who cheer on the party.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
126
Yup it is rough out there, but it is getting better.

[Gunnery Sergeant Thomas Highway] How do you figure? [/Gunnery Sergeant Thomas Highway]

and I don't think it's improvise, adapt and overcome. Well, maybe it is...to a lower standard of living.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
[Gunnery Sergeant Thomas Highway] How do you figure? [/Gunnery Sergeant Thomas Highway]

and I don't think it's improvise, adapt and overcome. Well, maybe it is...to a lower standard of living.

American expectations are to high and we demand to much. A lower standard of living isn't necessarily a bad thing. It all depends on what standards are coming down. If we lower the upper most standards down, the overall standard of living will come down(nationally), while we will probably keep the middle/bottom rungs where they are.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
[Gunnery Sergeant Thomas Highway] How do you figure? [/Gunnery Sergeant Thomas Highway]

and I don't think it's improvise, adapt and overcome. Well, maybe it is...to a lower standard of living.

Sectors of the economy are improving, for instance IT unemployment is back to 4%. This time a year ago I was getting no return calls for interviews. Since then I found a new job and i am now getting calls from recruiters offering placements bonuses.

Debt is being unwound, housing is finding its bottom and savings rate has gone up(around 5% now). There is has been much pain, but it is getting better.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I blame EVERYONE, especially Congress and anyone else who pushes the so called "Free Trade" policies and agreements out there. The only thing free is giving the jobs to offshored companies while the money flows back to the top and it takes a bubble or government assistance to keep the illusion of a prospering middle class.

Hey Zebo...you need a partner in your booze business?

You're still thinking in highly conventional terms that are bound by outdated notions of the relationships between employment & the ability to participate in the economy in a capitalist system. We offshored "work", automated it, too, actually reducing the need for it in this country, but we haven't changed the way we think about how the rewards of capitalism should be distributed. We still think it should be done with "work", 40+ hours per week, even when capitalism doesn't want or need all of it we can offer.

The mechanisms that promoted a healthy circulation of money in the economy have simply started to break down- wages and benefits don't need to be paid out nearly as much as they once were for capitalists to take their cut off the top, so they don't do it. Nor will they voluntarily- they'll only expand hiring when there's increased demand, which there won't be in the context of lower aggregate take home pay among the middle and working class. Catch-22, but the purposes of those at the top are nonetheless served handsomely.

So we need to employ other means to circulate money from the top down to the middle & bottom, and the only way to accomplish that is with much higher taxes at the top and more social welfare spending, like funding universal healthcare, which would free up enormous middle class spending power, more spending on infrastructure to create jobs and maintain what we have, greater funding for the IRS so they can collect every dime owed, greater funding for the SEC so they can better accomplish the tasks they're assigned, so forth and so on. We need to redefine full time work as something less than 40 hours, as well, and to promote mechanisms that increase wages, like unions.

It's not like I'm really keen on such measures, but rather that I see little choice if we're to maintain a vibrant middle class. The direction that modern financial capitalism has taken offers no real alternatives, given that the semi mythical Job Creators aren't creating jobs at all, but rather stuffing their profits into their figurative mattresses & pushing them offshore as fast as possible.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
Jhhnn ah see now I understand you. You live in a fantasy world. You forget we live on this old limiting rock with people who view the world vastly different than us and have vastly different places in life at the moment. Get us off this stupid rock first and maybe we can make some end roads in "work".
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
So we need to employ other means to circulate money from the top down to the middle & bottom, and the only way to accomplish that is with much higher taxes at the top and more social welfare spending, like funding universal healthcare, which would free up enormous middle class spending power, more spending on infrastructure to create jobs and maintain what we have, greater funding for the IRS so they can collect every dime owed, greater funding for the SEC so they can better accomplish the tasks they're assigned, so forth and so on. We need to redefine full time work as something less than 40 hours, as well, and to promote mechanisms that increase wages, like unions.

There ya go. Wages are down so lets just steal from the rich and what's even better is we will work less hours for it.......
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
Blame both parties in congress.

I do! And I blame the Jews and Nazis both for the holocaust, OJ and Nicole both for murder.

Both parties can be blamed in part, but not equally.

The progressives are pretty much on the correct side of the issue.

The Republicans can't point to pretty much anyone who is.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
There ya go. Wages are down so lets just steal from the rich and what's even better is we will work less hours for it.......

You righties are more irrational, more ideological, harder to get a clue than the most radical communists in history. You're not quite as bad as that 'Do' cult or whatever it was called.

Where did the wealth of 'the rich' come from? Hint: from society. Who has a right to keep society doing well? Hint: society. 'The Rich' lay very few golden eggs by themselves.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
I do! And I blame the Jews and Nazis both for the holocaust, OJ and Nicole both for murder.

Both parties can be blamed in part, but not equally.

The progressives are pretty much on the correct side of the issue.

The Republicans can't point to pretty much anyone who is.

You're an idiot. Neither party gives a fuck about you Craig, both parties are out for their own interest. They don't care if I'm living my life the way I want, they only want me to live my life the way they want. Authoritarian pieces of shit. You're no better than some brainwashed North Korean.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
348
126
You're still thinking in highly conventional terms that are bound by outdated notions of the relationships between employment & the ability to participate in the economy in a capitalist system. We offshored "work", automated it, too, actually reducing the need for it in this country, but we haven't changed the way we think about how the rewards of capitalism should be distributed. We still think it should be done with "work", 40+ hours per week, even when capitalism doesn't want or need all of it we can offer.

The mechanisms that promoted a healthy circulation of money in the economy have simply started to break down- wages and benefits don't need to be paid out nearly as much as they once were for capitalists to take their cut off the top, so they don't do it. Nor will they voluntarily- they'll only expand hiring when there's increased demand, which there won't be in the context of lower aggregate take home pay among the middle and working class. Catch-22, but the purposes of those at the top are nonetheless served handsomely.

So we need to employ other means to circulate money from the top down to the middle & bottom, and the only way to accomplish that is with much higher taxes at the top and more social welfare spending, like funding universal healthcare, which would free up enormous middle class spending power, more spending on infrastructure to create jobs and maintain what we have, greater funding for the IRS so they can collect every dime owed, greater funding for the SEC so they can better accomplish the tasks they're assigned, so forth and so on. We need to redefine full time work as something less than 40 hours, as well, and to promote mechanisms that increase wages, like unions.

It's not like I'm really keen on such measures, but rather that I see little choice if we're to maintain a vibrant middle class. The direction that modern financial capitalism has taken offers no real alternatives, given that the semi mythical Job Creators aren't creating jobs at all, but rather stuffing their profits into their figurative mattresses & pushing them offshore as fast as possible.

Well said. We need to stop the shame and guilt about taxing the wealth, who get their wealth from society.

What we need is good government that tries to have an economy benefiting everyone, instead of one run by only the few richest interests, and screw everyone else.

Whether that means job training or putting a man on mars or whatever is useful (not war again, though).
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
Craig, EVERYONE GETS SOMETHING FROM SOCIETY. If you CHOOSE TO BE A PART OF SOCIETY YOU TAKE FROM SOCIETY. ALL PEOPLES. The money you earned? Because of society, we should take it! Why should my earning 1million at the sake of society be treated any differently than your 10,000 you earned at the sake of society? Please spare me your bullshit. Everyone should be taxed EQUALLY AND FAIRLY. This is a FLAT RATE, in which ALL money earned = INCOME. You do not approve of this because you're a champion of inequality.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
There ya go. Wages are down so lets just steal from the rich and what's even better is we will work less hours for it.......

They've been stealing from the middle class for the last 30 years, and we're now seeing the results of their efforts. It doesn't have to be the way I've offered, if the Job Creators would actually, you know, create jobs.

We had a deal, it was called the New Deal, where American capitalists hired American workers, paid high taxes, kept their capital on this side of the ocean, made lots of money in a stable and growing economy. Everybody got something out of it. But the guys at the top got greedy, convinced the rest of us that they really had our best interests at heart with the flimflam of reaganomics, proceeded to dump american workers in favor of machines and foreign workers w/o having to do anything more than giving us a bigger line of credit & cheap chinese trinkets.

Remember how they told us that automation would free us from drudgery & give us more leisure time, about how more & better jobs would come of it? Same with offshoring?

Yeh, well, that didn't happen, did it? American capitalists still have choices- it doesn't have to be the way I offered, above. They can hire Americans, if at lower profits, still make money, or they can eventually pay much higher taxes to a more socialistic society that they created the need for themselves. Just the way it is.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
They've been stealing from the middle class for the last 30 years, and we're now seeing the results of their efforts. It doesn't have to be the way I've offered, if the Job Creators would actually, you know, create jobs.

We had a deal, it was called the New Deal, where American capitalists hired American workers, paid high taxes, kept their capital on this side of the ocean, made lots of money in a stable and growing economy. Everybody got something out of it. But the guys at the top got greedy, convinced the rest of us that they really had our best interests at heart with the flimflam of reaganomics, proceeded to dump american workers in favor of machines and foreign workers w/o having to do anything more than giving us a bigger line of credit & cheap chinese trinkets.

Remember how they told us that automation would free us from drudgery & give us more leisure time, about how more & better jobs would come of it? Same with offshoring?

Yeh, well, that didn't happen, did it? American capitalists still have choices- it doesn't have to be the way I offered, above. They can hire Americans, if at lower profits, still make money, or they can eventually pay much higher taxes to a more socialistic society that they created the need for themselves. Just the way it is.

No one is guaranteed a job. You don't have the right to one. If I have the means to employ people, it is at MY DISCRETION. You're such an authoritarian asshole. Yes corporations and big businesses have hurt us, but we aren't entitled to shit. If we don't want to work and compete for it, someone else will get it. You sound like a soccer mom bitching that score was kept and your sons team lost so you don't want his self esteem hurt. WAAAH. There are jobs, people don't want to work them. People hire day laborers, mostly illegal aliens, at 10-15 bucks an hour and those guys get work damn near every fucking day. Sure it's labor, but so? It's fucking work and someone has to do it. Instead Americans would rather say "fuck that, I'm to good for that" and go collect unemployment while bitching there's no jobs*.

* in which they would want to do or feel ashamed to do.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
126
well there's a lot of people who lost their jobs,
surprised it didn't drop more

Employment actually ticked up in 2010.

from 137,960,000 to 139,206,000 (Dec. 2009 to Dec. 2010). Not much but a net positive in jobs.

Companies, sitting on record profits and hoarding record amounts (currently over $2 TRILLION dollars) of cash, had to make even more money by kicking the workers in the nuts even more.
 
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Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
Debt is being unwound
Just to be clear, the number I saw a week back indicated most reduction of debt was via default in housing. Real consumer debt levels are basically the same. And things are not meaningfully better, nor worse than a year ago. Economy is totally stagnant being held together by strings of debt only.