Read My Lips

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
From today's NY Times editorial page.

Read My Lips
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN


Democrats have been groping for a way to counter George Bush's maniacal tax cuts, which are designed to shrink government and shift as many things as possible to the market. May I make a suggestion? When you shrink government, what you do, over time, is shrink the services provided by federal, state and local governments to the vast American middle class. I would suggest that henceforth Democrats simply ask voters to substitute the word "services" for the word "taxes" every time they hear President Bush speak.

That is, when the president says he wants yet another round of reckless "tax cuts," which will shift huge burdens to our children, Democrats should simply refer to them as "service cuts," because that is the only way these tax cuts will be paid for ? by cuts in services. Indeed, the Democrats' bumper sticker in 2004 should be: "Read my lips, no new services. Thank you, President Bush."

Say it with me now: "Read my lips, no new services ? or old ones."

Whenever Mr. Bush says, "It's not the government's money, it's your money," Democrats should point out that what he is really saying is, "It's not the government's services, it's your services" ? and thanks to the Bush tax cuts, soon you'll be paying for many of them yourself.

As the former Nixon-era commerce secretary Peter Peterson just observed in this newspaper, when Mr. Bush took office the 10-year budget projection showed a $5.6 trillion surplus ? something that would easily prefinance the cost of Social Security. The first Bush tax cut, coupled with continued spending growth and the post-9/11 costs, brought the projected surplus down to $1 trillion. "Unfazed by this turnaround," notes Mr. Peterson, "the Bush administration proposed a second tax-cut package in 2003 in the face of huge new fiscal demands, including a war in Iraq and an urgent `homeland security' agenda." Result: now the 10-year fiscal projection is for a $4 trillion deficit.

This in turn will shrink the federal government's ability to help out the already strapped states. Since most states have to run balanced budgets, that will mean less health care and kindergarten for children and the poor, higher state college tuition, smaller local school budgets and fewer state service workers. And Lord only knows how we'll finance Social Security.

Everyone wants taxes to be cut, but no one wants services to be cut, which is why Democrats have to reframe the debate ? and show President Bush for what he really is: a man who is not putting money into your pocket, but who is removing government services and safety nets from your life.

Ditto on foreign policy. As we and our government continue to spend and invest more than we save, we will become even more dependent on the outside world to finance the gap. Foreigners will have to buy even more of our T-bills and other assets. And do you know on whom we'll be most dependent for that? China and Japan. Yes, that China ? the one the Bush team says is our biggest geopolitical rival.

"In the 1990's, Japan's and China's excess savings were financing our private sector investment, because the government was in surplus," says Robert Hormats, vice chairman of Goldman Sachs International. "Now, with these looming deficits, China and Japan are being asked to finance our government's actual operations." That makes us very dependent on their willingness to continue sending us hundreds of billions of dollars of their savings. Should China and Japan not want to play along, your services will very likely be cut even sooner (unless you believe in "voodoo economics"). Which is why Democrats should rename this tax bill the China-Japan Economic Dependency Act.

I don't think Democrats can win the presidency with a single issue. You win the presidency by connecting with the American people's gut insecurities and aspirations. You win with a concept. The concept I'd argue for is "neoliberalism." More Americans today are natural neolibs, than neocons. Neoliberals believe in a muscular foreign policy and a credible defense budget, but also a prudent fiscal policy that balances taxes, deficit reduction and government services.

To name something is to own it. And the Democrats, for too long, have allowed the Bush team to name its radical reduction in services, and the huge dependence it is creating on foreign capital, as an innocuous "tax cut." Balderdash. This new tax cut is a dangerous foray into wretched excess and it will ultimately make our government, ourselves and our children less secure.
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: Alistar7
it's not like it's the 10 commandments, we can change anything he fvcks up.......


Oh, the same attitude the Republicans expressed with President Clinton?

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: Alistar7
it's not like it's the 10 commandments, we can change anything he fvcks up.......


Oh, the same attitude the Republicans expressed with President Clinton?

And we're still here aren't we? ;)

The world isn't going to end just because you don't like the guy in office.

I don't think Democrats can win the presidency with a single issue. You win the presidency by connecting with the American people's gut insecurities and aspirations. You win with a concept.
Well I think he got 2.5 out of 3 right;) 1 & 3. #2 had worked in the past but America's seniors are finally seeing through the scare tactics.
Too bad none of the Democrat candidates have the 2.5 at the moment - they seem to be content pushing the .5 that no longer "works". Well, maybe I could give a couple of them #3 but concepts without plans don't get you very far either. Anyone have a clue how we'd pay for the national healthcare schemes atleast 3 of them are proposing? (80+ billion per year).

CkG
 

Lucky

Lifer
Nov 26, 2000
13,126
1
0
Bush shouldn't be faulted for the tax cuts. What he should be faulted for, IMO:

  • Not cutting federal spending or reducing unfunded mandates for states
  • Leading us to believe that Iraq had WMD ready to use in 15 minutes notice, and pushing for the war using knowingly false or outdated information
  • pushing for the SS drug benefits that will become yet another entitlement monstronsity
  • Supporting Ashcroft and pushing for the Patriot Act
 

Bleep

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,972
0
0
Should be no supprise after all Lyndon LaRouche forcast this happening. :confused:

Bleep
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: Alistar7
it's not like it's the 10 commandments, we can change anything he fvcks up.......


Oh, the same attitude the Republicans expressed with President Clinton?

And we're still here aren't we? ;)

The world isn't going to end just because you don't like the guy in office.

I don't think Democrats can win the presidency with a single issue. You win the presidency by connecting with the American people's gut insecurities and aspirations. You win with a concept.
Well I think he got 2.5 out of 3 right;) 1 & 3. #2 had worked in the past but America's seniors are finally seeing through the scare tactics.
Too bad none of the Democrat candidates have the 2.5 at the moment - they seem to be content pushing the .5 that no longer "works". Well, maybe I could give a couple of them #3 but concepts without plans don't get you very far either. Anyone have a clue how we'd pay for the national healthcare schemes atleast 3 of them are proposing? (80+ billion per year).

CkG

I have a clue on how to pay the $80+billion per year for national healthcare. Pull out of Iraq and use the money we "found" for the invasion.

If money can be found for fake emergencies like WMD threat that doesn't exist, why not use it for a real emergency - national healthcare?

 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Let the service and tax cuts continue. It is time for the federal goverment to determine what is important and what is not. Give the goverment an unlimited budget and they will spend it, restrict it and they are forced to make choices.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: Alistar7
it's not like it's the 10 commandments, we can change anything he fvcks up.......


Oh, the same attitude the Republicans expressed with President Clinton?

And we're still here aren't we? ;)

The world isn't going to end just because you don't like the guy in office.

I don't think Democrats can win the presidency with a single issue. You win the presidency by connecting with the American people's gut insecurities and aspirations. You win with a concept.
Well I think he got 2.5 out of 3 right;) 1 & 3. #2 had worked in the past but America's seniors are finally seeing through the scare tactics.
Too bad none of the Democrat candidates have the 2.5 at the moment - they seem to be content pushing the .5 that no longer "works". Well, maybe I could give a couple of them #3 but concepts without plans don't get you very far either. Anyone have a clue how we'd pay for the national healthcare schemes atleast 3 of them are proposing? (80+ billion per year).

CkG

I have a clue on how to pay the $80+billion per year for national healthcare. Pull out of Iraq and use the money we "found" for the invasion.

If money can be found for fake emergencies like WMD threat that doesn't exist, why not use it for a real emergency - national healthcare?

If we leave Iraq, the left would only scream that we are abandoning the country. Dean(or was it kerry) wants to repeal the tax cut use it pay for social healthcare. The same group that complains about our current defecit has no problems spending the money we dont have on more social programs. The hypocracy is amazing.
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Let the service and tax cuts continue. It is time for the federal goverment to determine what is important and what is not. Give the goverment an unlimited budget and they will spend it, restrict it and they are forced to make choices.

So far their choices have been confined to a tax cut for the rich and a war and another tax cut for the rich.
 

Tal

Golden Member
Jun 29, 2001
1,832
0
0
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: Alistar7
it's not like it's the 10 commandments, we can change anything he fvcks up.......


Oh, the same attitude the Republicans expressed with President Clinton?

And we're still here aren't we? ;)

The world isn't going to end just because you don't like the guy in office.

I don't think Democrats can win the presidency with a single issue. You win the presidency by connecting with the American people's gut insecurities and aspirations. You win with a concept.
Well I think he got 2.5 out of 3 right;) 1 & 3. #2 had worked in the past but America's seniors are finally seeing through the scare tactics.
Too bad none of the Democrat candidates have the 2.5 at the moment - they seem to be content pushing the .5 that no longer "works". Well, maybe I could give a couple of them #3 but concepts without plans don't get you very far either. Anyone have a clue how we'd pay for the national healthcare schemes atleast 3 of them are proposing? (80+ billion per year).

CkG

I have a clue on how to pay the $80+billion per year for national healthcare. Pull out of Iraq and use the money we "found" for the invasion.

If money can be found for fake emergencies like WMD threat that doesn't exist, why not use it for a real emergency - national healthcare?


How is this an emergency? Cause you think it is? Is it an emergency in the other countries around the world who don't have universal healthcare?
 

Tal

Golden Member
Jun 29, 2001
1,832
0
0
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: charrison
Let the service and tax cuts continue. It is time for the federal goverment to determine what is important and what is not. Give the goverment an unlimited budget and they will spend it, restrict it and they are forced to make choices.

So far their choices have been confined to a tax cut for the rich and a war and another tax cut for the rich.

haha. Do you even know any rich people BOBDN? Ever seen one? :) Damn evil richers. We don't like you rich people. Stupid Richy-rich.

This makes you sound like a whiner. How jealous are you that you aren't rich? I'm sorry you haven't had any good ideas on how to make money, but let's not revert to the socialism and wealth redistribution that has worked so well in the USSR.
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: Alistar7
it's not like it's the 10 commandments, we can change anything he fvcks up.......


Oh, the same attitude the Republicans expressed with President Clinton?

And we're still here aren't we? ;)

The world isn't going to end just because you don't like the guy in office.

I don't think Democrats can win the presidency with a single issue. You win the presidency by connecting with the American people's gut insecurities and aspirations. You win with a concept.
Well I think he got 2.5 out of 3 right;) 1 & 3. #2 had worked in the past but America's seniors are finally seeing through the scare tactics.
Too bad none of the Democrat candidates have the 2.5 at the moment - they seem to be content pushing the .5 that no longer "works". Well, maybe I could give a couple of them #3 but concepts without plans don't get you very far either. Anyone have a clue how we'd pay for the national healthcare schemes atleast 3 of them are proposing? (80+ billion per year).

CkG

I have a clue on how to pay the $80+billion per year for national healthcare. Pull out of Iraq and use the money we "found" for the invasion.

If money can be found for fake emergencies like WMD threat that doesn't exist, why not use it for a real emergency - national healthcare?

If we leave Iraq, the left would only scream that we are abandoning the country. Dean(or was it kerry) wants to repeal the tax cut use it pay for social healthcare. The same group that complains about our current defecit has no problems spending the money we dont have on more social programs. The hypocracy is amazing.

If we never invaded Iraq on false pretences in the first place we wouldn't be able to abandon the country. :)

Strange although that we could find all that money for a "war" concocted by Bush and Co. but there is none for social programs as you call them.

I don't consider social programs a problem. The majority of social programs benefit middle class working Americans. You do realize welfare as we knew it is dead, right? IMO the only people who don't like social programs are people too wealthy to need them. Because almost everyone else needs them sooner or later in this life in one form or another.
 

Tal

Golden Member
Jun 29, 2001
1,832
0
0
Originally posted by: BOBDN

If we never invaded Iraq on false pretences in the first place we wouldn't be able to abandon the country. :)

Strange although that we could find all that money for a "war" concocted by Bush and Co. but there is none for social programs as you call them.

I don't consider social programs a problem. The majority of social programs benefit middle class working Americans. You do realize welfare as we knew it is dead, right? IMO the only people who don't like social programs are people too wealthy to need them. Because almost everyone else needs them sooner or later in this life in one form or another.

Give me some examples. I do think of welfare. Free something or other for people. What kind of programs could I as a middle class citizen benefit from?
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: Alistar7
it's not like it's the 10 commandments, we can change anything he fvcks up.......


Oh, the same attitude the Republicans expressed with President Clinton?

And we're still here aren't we? ;)

The world isn't going to end just because you don't like the guy in office.

I don't think Democrats can win the presidency with a single issue. You win the presidency by connecting with the American people's gut insecurities and aspirations. You win with a concept.
Well I think he got 2.5 out of 3 right;) 1 & 3. #2 had worked in the past but America's seniors are finally seeing through the scare tactics.
Too bad none of the Democrat candidates have the 2.5 at the moment - they seem to be content pushing the .5 that no longer "works". Well, maybe I could give a couple of them #3 but concepts without plans don't get you very far either. Anyone have a clue how we'd pay for the national healthcare schemes atleast 3 of them are proposing? (80+ billion per year).

CkG

I have a clue on how to pay the $80+billion per year for national healthcare. Pull out of Iraq and use the money we "found" for the invasion.

If money can be found for fake emergencies like WMD threat that doesn't exist, why not use it for a real emergency - national healthcare?

If we leave Iraq, the left would only scream that we are abandoning the country. Dean(or was it kerry) wants to repeal the tax cut use it pay for social healthcare. The same group that complains about our current defecit has no problems spending the money we dont have on more social programs. The hypocracy is amazing.

If we never invaded Iraq on false pretences in the first place we wouldn't be able to abandon the country. :)

Strange although that we could find all that money for a "war" concocted by Bush and Co. but there is none for social programs as you call them.

I don't consider social programs a problem. The majority of social programs benefit middle class working Americans. You do realize welfare as we knew it is dead, right? IMO the only people who don't like social programs are people too wealthy to need them. Because almost everyone else needs them sooner or later in this life in one form or another.


I dont mind giving people a hand up, I have real problems with handouts. If a person is getting money from the goverment, there should be strings attached and their should be strict limits. There are folks that use this safety net as a hammock. I know too many people that have been riding unemployment because they cant find they job they want. I would much rather these people be underemployed than sucking cash from others because they are too good for a low paying job. People like this are a drain on the entire population.

I have no problem helping those that want to help themselves. If you think the war was expensive and poorly executed, just wait till you see goverment healthcare.

 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Tal
Originally posted by: BOBDN

If we never invaded Iraq on false pretences in the first place we wouldn't be able to abandon the country. :)

Strange although that we could find all that money for a "war" concocted by Bush and Co. but there is none for social programs as you call them.

I don't consider social programs a problem. The majority of social programs benefit middle class working Americans. You do realize welfare as we knew it is dead, right? IMO the only people who don't like social programs are people too wealthy to need them. Because almost everyone else needs them sooner or later in this life in one form or another.

Give me some examples. I do think of welfare. Free something or other for people. What kind of programs could I as a middle class citizen benefit from?

He is not going to be able to do it, the upper 50% of income earners are too busy paying 96% of the federal tax bill to have time to stop the goverment office and pick up a check.....
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: Tal
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: charrison
Let the service and tax cuts continue. It is time for the federal goverment to determine what is important and what is not. Give the goverment an unlimited budget and they will spend it, restrict it and they are forced to make choices.

So far their choices have been confined to a tax cut for the rich and a war and another tax cut for the rich.

haha. Do you even know any rich people BOBDN? Ever seen one? :) Damn evil richers. We don't like you rich people. Stupid Richy-rich.

This makes you sound like a whiner. How jealous are you that you aren't rich? I'm sorry you haven't had any good ideas on how to make money, but let's not revert to the socialism and wealth redistribution that has worked so well in the USSR.

HAHA YEAH. I never seen no rich folks before. I wonder what they look like? I never knowed any neither. I liked that Richie Rich boy you mentioned though. He was a right nice cartoon character.

My post stated, "So far their choices have been confined to a tax cut for the rich and a war and another tax cut for the rich." If you'ver read any newspapers or seen the evening news or even just listened to radio news you must have heard Bush's tax cuts referred to as such.

Everyone opposed to the latest cut, those people who forced the irresponsible measure to be cut in half, those who oppose tax cuts that are targeted at the rich - people who really don't need the money other than as a contribution to their political benefactor - while the federal deficit skyrockets to record breaking proportions, people who opposed anther tax cut targeted to the rich while our nation is at "war,"referred to it as such. A tax cut targeted to the wealthiest 10% of Americans. Rich people.

I've even seen rich folks on the TV set saying as how they don't need this here tax cut!

Currently the Democrats insisted on including the poorest families with children - those the Republicans left out of the measure - in the tax cut. And for a few hundred dollars some people are complaining about it like they're getting root canal! Now the Republicans insist on including another $22 billion in the measure (I wonder who that's earmarked for) if the poor are included. Hmmm.....not to blatant. \

Maybe you're right. They aren't emptying the treasury and filling their pockets! They're helping reach the goal of smaller government. As they increase the size of the Department of Homeland Security and invade our private lives.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: Tal
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: charrison
Let the service and tax cuts continue. It is time for the federal goverment to determine what is important and what is not. Give the goverment an unlimited budget and they will spend it, restrict it and they are forced to make choices.

So far their choices have been confined to a tax cut for the rich and a war and another tax cut for the rich.

haha. Do you even know any rich people BOBDN? Ever seen one? :) Damn evil richers. We don't like you rich people. Stupid Richy-rich.

This makes you sound like a whiner. How jealous are you that you aren't rich? I'm sorry you haven't had any good ideas on how to make money, but let's not revert to the socialism and wealth redistribution that has worked so well in the USSR.

HAHA YEAH. I never seen no rich folks before. I wonder what they look like? I never knowed any neither. I liked that Richie Rich boy you mentioned though. He was a right nice cartoon character.

My post stated, "So far their choices have been confined to a tax cut for the rich and a war and another tax cut for the rich." If you'ver read any newspapers or seen the evening news or even just listened to radio news you must have heard Bush's tax cuts referred to as such.

Everyone opposed to the latest cut, those people who forced the irresponsible measure to be cut in half, those who oppose tax cuts that are targeted at the rich - people who really don't need the money other than as a contribution to their political benefactor - while the federal deficit skyrockets to record breaking proportions, people who opposed anther tax cut targeted to the rich while our nation is at "war,"referred to it as such. A tax cut targeted to the wealthiest 10% of Americans. Rich people.

I've even seen rich folks on the TV set saying as how they don't need this here tax cut!

Currently the Democrats insisted on including the poorest families with children - those the Republicans left out of the measure - in the tax cut. And for a few hundred dollars some people are complaining about it like they're getting root canal! Now the Republicans insist on including another $22 billion in the measure (I wonder who that's earmarked for) if the poor are included. Hmmm.....not to blatant. \

Maybe you're right. They aren't emptying the treasury and filling their pockets! They're helping reach the goal of smaller government. As they increase the size of the Department of Homeland Security and invade our private lives.


So how do you give taxbreaks to those that do not pay taxes? The rich pay most of the taxes in this country, so tax cuts are going to return more to those that pay more. Do you really have a problem with this? Thanks to the taxcuts some 20million more citizens in this country are no longer tax payers.


And dont you relaize a less well funded is going to bess able to get into our lives.
 

BOBDN

Banned
May 21, 2002
2,579
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: Tal
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: charrison
Let the service and tax cuts continue. It is time for the federal goverment to determine what is important and what is not. Give the goverment an unlimited budget and they will spend it, restrict it and they are forced to make choices.

So far their choices have been confined to a tax cut for the rich and a war and another tax cut for the rich.

haha. Do you even know any rich people BOBDN? Ever seen one? :) Damn evil richers. We don't like you rich people. Stupid Richy-rich.

This makes you sound like a whiner. How jealous are you that you aren't rich? I'm sorry you haven't had any good ideas on how to make money, but let's not revert to the socialism and wealth redistribution that has worked so well in the USSR.

HAHA YEAH. I never seen no rich folks before. I wonder what they look like? I never knowed any neither. I liked that Richie Rich boy you mentioned though. He was a right nice cartoon character.

My post stated, "So far their choices have been confined to a tax cut for the rich and a war and another tax cut for the rich." If you'ver read any newspapers or seen the evening news or even just listened to radio news you must have heard Bush's tax cuts referred to as such.

Everyone opposed to the latest cut, those people who forced the irresponsible measure to be cut in half, those who oppose tax cuts that are targeted at the rich - people who really don't need the money other than as a contribution to their political benefactor - while the federal deficit skyrockets to record breaking proportions, people who opposed anther tax cut targeted to the rich while our nation is at "war,"referred to it as such. A tax cut targeted to the wealthiest 10% of Americans. Rich people.

I've even seen rich folks on the TV set saying as how they don't need this here tax cut!

Currently the Democrats insisted on including the poorest families with children - those the Republicans left out of the measure - in the tax cut. And for a few hundred dollars some people are complaining about it like they're getting root canal! Now the Republicans insist on including another $22 billion in the measure (I wonder who that's earmarked for) if the poor are included. Hmmm.....not to blatant. \

Maybe you're right. They aren't emptying the treasury and filling their pockets! They're helping reach the goal of smaller government. As they increase the size of the Department of Homeland Security and invade our private lives.


So how do you give taxbreaks to those that do not pay taxes? The rich pay most of the taxes in this country, so tax cuts are going to return more to those that pay more. Do you really have a problem with this? Thanks to the taxcuts some 20million more citizens in this country are no longer tax payers.


And dont you relaize a less well funded is going to bess able to get into our lives.

I realize a government less well funded is going to spend less on programs that benefit most Americans and use whatever is left to get into our personal lives. That's the pattern of this administration.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: Tal
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: charrison
Let the service and tax cuts continue. It is time for the federal goverment to determine what is important and what is not. Give the goverment an unlimited budget and they will spend it, restrict it and they are forced to make choices.

So far their choices have been confined to a tax cut for the rich and a war and another tax cut for the rich.

haha. Do you even know any rich people BOBDN? Ever seen one? :) Damn evil richers. We don't like you rich people. Stupid Richy-rich.

This makes you sound like a whiner. How jealous are you that you aren't rich? I'm sorry you haven't had any good ideas on how to make money, but let's not revert to the socialism and wealth redistribution that has worked so well in the USSR.

HAHA YEAH. I never seen no rich folks before. I wonder what they look like? I never knowed any neither. I liked that Richie Rich boy you mentioned though. He was a right nice cartoon character.

My post stated, "So far their choices have been confined to a tax cut for the rich and a war and another tax cut for the rich." If you'ver read any newspapers or seen the evening news or even just listened to radio news you must have heard Bush's tax cuts referred to as such.

Everyone opposed to the latest cut, those people who forced the irresponsible measure to be cut in half, those who oppose tax cuts that are targeted at the rich - people who really don't need the money other than as a contribution to their political benefactor - while the federal deficit skyrockets to record breaking proportions, people who opposed anther tax cut targeted to the rich while our nation is at "war,"referred to it as such. A tax cut targeted to the wealthiest 10% of Americans. Rich people.

I've even seen rich folks on the TV set saying as how they don't need this here tax cut!

Currently the Democrats insisted on including the poorest families with children - those the Republicans left out of the measure - in the tax cut. And for a few hundred dollars some people are complaining about it like they're getting root canal! Now the Republicans insist on including another $22 billion in the measure (I wonder who that's earmarked for) if the poor are included. Hmmm.....not to blatant. \

Maybe you're right. They aren't emptying the treasury and filling their pockets! They're helping reach the goal of smaller government. As they increase the size of the Department of Homeland Security and invade our private lives.


So how do you give taxbreaks to those that do not pay taxes? The rich pay most of the taxes in this country, so tax cuts are going to return more to those that pay more. Do you really have a problem with this? Thanks to the taxcuts some 20million more citizens in this country are no longer tax payers.


And dont you relaize a less well funded is going to bess able to get into our lives.

I realize a government less well funded is going to spend less on programs that benefit most Americans and use whatever is left to get into our personal lives. That's the pattern of this administration.


I disagree. Every administration needs to be deprived of funding. Any goverment with unlimited funding is a bad thing.
 

Tal

Golden Member
Jun 29, 2001
1,832
0
0
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: Tal
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: charrison
Let the service and tax cuts continue. It is time for the federal goverment to determine what is important and what is not. Give the goverment an unlimited budget and they will spend it, restrict it and they are forced to make choices.

So far their choices have been confined to a tax cut for the rich and a war and another tax cut for the rich.

haha. Do you even know any rich people BOBDN? Ever seen one? :) Damn evil richers. We don't like you rich people. Stupid Richy-rich.

This makes you sound like a whiner. How jealous are you that you aren't rich? I'm sorry you haven't had any good ideas on how to make money, but let's not revert to the socialism and wealth redistribution that has worked so well in the USSR.

HAHA YEAH. I never seen no rich folks before. I wonder what they look like? I never knowed any neither. I liked that Richie Rich boy you mentioned though. He was a right nice cartoon character.

My post stated, "So far their choices have been confined to a tax cut for the rich and a war and another tax cut for the rich." If you'ver read any newspapers or seen the evening news or even just listened to radio news you must have heard Bush's tax cuts referred to as such.

Everyone opposed to the latest cut, those people who forced the irresponsible measure to be cut in half, those who oppose tax cuts that are targeted at the rich - people who really don't need the money other than as a contribution to their political benefactor - while the federal deficit skyrockets to record breaking proportions, people who opposed anther tax cut targeted to the rich while our nation is at "war,"referred to it as such. A tax cut targeted to the wealthiest 10% of Americans. Rich people.

I've even seen rich folks on the TV set saying as how they don't need this here tax cut!

Currently the Democrats insisted on including the poorest families with children - those the Republicans left out of the measure - in the tax cut. And for a few hundred dollars some people are complaining about it like they're getting root canal! Now the Republicans insist on including another $22 billion in the measure (I wonder who that's earmarked for) if the poor are included. Hmmm.....not to blatant. \

Maybe you're right. They aren't emptying the treasury and filling their pockets! They're helping reach the goal of smaller government. As they increase the size of the Department of Homeland Security and invade our private lives.

Yup. I've heard all about how the real cancers of society are the rich. They are slowly eroding our society. Taking from the poor like the Sheriif of Nottingham. :p You want to increase welfare? Make it a separate increased welfare benefits bill. Don't fake generosity for the poor. Aren't a lot of the tax cuts proposed usually a fairly straight percentage? Seems like if the rich pay in more to begin with, they should get more if we cut taxes. I don't consider that a Rich tax cut. They pay a sh1t load more than we do to begin with. Who did you see that was rich on TV saying they don't need the money? Did they also say that they were gonna give it back? haha. Welfare is welfare. As someone stated earlier. I'm not opposed to programs to help people out. I'm opposed to people like one of my relatives who has 4 kids and is living in a trailer waiting to get approved for social security. That's his new scam. He is claiming Bi-polar. There isn't a damn thing wrong with him. He is a strong healthy guy who could work if he wanted to. He's lazy. Lazy. I've helped him out and tried to get him working, but alas, the alure of sitting around smoking dope is too strong. He will get this new taxbreak and I'm pretty sure it won't go towards improving his situation or towards ensuring that his kids have decent clothes to wear. When I was there last week, his daughter was running around in a big shirt and talking about how her parents didn't buy her any pajamas. Say what you will, but this is why we don't need to give Taxbreaks to people that don't pay taxes. The republicans were wrong to capitulate to the dems demands for this type of cut, and it shows a lack of integrity and a concern for polls that shouldn't be the deciding factor in a vote. -Tal
 

sMiLeYz

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2003
2,696
0
76
Originally posted by: Tal
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: Tal
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: charrison
Let the service and tax cuts continue. It is time for the federal goverment to determine what is important and what is not. Give the goverment an unlimited budget and they will spend it, restrict it and they are forced to make choices.

So far their choices have been confined to a tax cut for the rich and a war and another tax cut for the rich.

haha. Do you even know any rich people BOBDN? Ever seen one? :) Damn evil richers. We don't like you rich people. Stupid Richy-rich.

This makes you sound like a whiner. How jealous are you that you aren't rich? I'm sorry you haven't had any good ideas on how to make money, but let's not revert to the socialism and wealth redistribution that has worked so well in the USSR.

HAHA YEAH. I never seen no rich folks before. I wonder what they look like? I never knowed any neither. I liked that Richie Rich boy you mentioned though. He was a right nice cartoon character.

My post stated, "So far their choices have been confined to a tax cut for the rich and a war and another tax cut for the rich." If you'ver read any newspapers or seen the evening news or even just listened to radio news you must have heard Bush's tax cuts referred to as such.

Everyone opposed to the latest cut, those people who forced the irresponsible measure to be cut in half, those who oppose tax cuts that are targeted at the rich - people who really don't need the money other than as a contribution to their political benefactor - while the federal deficit skyrockets to record breaking proportions, people who opposed anther tax cut targeted to the rich while our nation is at "war,"referred to it as such. A tax cut targeted to the wealthiest 10% of Americans. Rich people.

I've even seen rich folks on the TV set saying as how they don't need this here tax cut!

Currently the Democrats insisted on including the poorest families with children - those the Republicans left out of the measure - in the tax cut. And for a few hundred dollars some people are complaining about it like they're getting root canal! Now the Republicans insist on including another $22 billion in the measure (I wonder who that's earmarked for) if the poor are included. Hmmm.....not to blatant. \

Maybe you're right. They aren't emptying the treasury and filling their pockets! They're helping reach the goal of smaller government. As they increase the size of the Department of Homeland Security and invade our private lives.

Yup. I've heard all about how the real cancers of society are the rich. They are slowly eroding our society. Taking from the poor like the Sheriif of Nottingham. :p You want to increase welfare? Make it a separate increased welfare benefits bill. Don't fake generosity for the poor. Aren't a lot of the tax cuts proposed usually a fairly straight percentage? Seems like if the rich pay in more to begin with, they should get more if we cut taxes. I don't consider that a Rich tax cut. They pay a sh1t load more than we do to begin with.Who did you see that was rich on TV saying they don't need the money? Did they also say that they were gonna give it back? haha. Welfare is welfare. As someone stated earlier. I'm not opposed to programs to help people out. I'm opposed to people like one of my relatives who has 4 kids and is living in a trailer waiting to get approved for social security. That's his new scam. He is claiming Bi-polar. There isn't a damn thing wrong with him. He is a strong healthy guy who could work if he wanted to. He's lazy. Lazy. I've helped him out and tried to get him working, but alas, the alure of sitting around smoking dope is too strong. He will get this new taxbreak and I'm pretty sure it won't go towards improving his situation or towards ensuring that his kids have decent clothes to wear. When I was there last week, his daughter was running around in a big shirt and talking about how her parents didn't buy her any pajamas. Say what you will, but this is why we don't need to give Taxbreaks to people that don't pay taxes. The republicans were wrong to capitulate to the dems demands for this type of cut, and it shows a lack of integrity and a concern for polls that shouldn't be the deciding factor in a vote. -Tal

For one, one of the Richest man in America called the tax cut, has called the taxcut "voodoo economics". Not on TV, but on a opinion. Anyone who knows something about economics and investment knows that Warren Buffet's word is right on the money.

Warren Buffet

You dont need to be a investment whiz like Buffet, just need to have a little common sense to understand the tax cut doesnt help the economy at all; which was the intended purpose of the tax cut.

Poor people arent lazy, they're poor for a reason. Not because they dont work hard enough, but because they work too hard and dont get enough money for food, rent, insurance, clothing, car payments and other necessities . Have you tried working at Walmart, raising a kid and being a single parent? Because my "aunt" has. She works two jobs that barely makes enough to pay rent. Our family does the best we can to help her situation, but the welfare check she collects every month helps her the most. She doesnt have time between jobs to pick up her kid from school, not to even mention "smoking dope" or what you conservatives think poor people do.

Welfare is for people like my aunt, the hardworking 70+ hours a week. She needs any breaks she can get. There are of course few abusers of the system, but should we leave the people who really really need the system out to starve?

As for polls... I completely agree. Politicians shouldnt listen to polls, after all polls are the voice of common people... they dont know what they want. Only politicians knows what's good for the people.
rolleye.gif
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
Originally posted by: Tal
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: Tal
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: charrison
Let the service and tax cuts continue. It is time for the federal goverment to determine what is important and what is not. Give the goverment an unlimited budget and they will spend it, restrict it and they are forced to make choices.

So far their choices have been confined to a tax cut for the rich and a war and another tax cut for the rich.

haha. Do you even know any rich people BOBDN? Ever seen one? :) Damn evil richers. We don't like you rich people. Stupid Richy-rich.

This makes you sound like a whiner. How jealous are you that you aren't rich? I'm sorry you haven't had any good ideas on how to make money, but let's not revert to the socialism and wealth redistribution that has worked so well in the USSR.

HAHA YEAH. I never seen no rich folks before. I wonder what they look like? I never knowed any neither. I liked that Richie Rich boy you mentioned though. He was a right nice cartoon character.

My post stated, "So far their choices have been confined to a tax cut for the rich and a war and another tax cut for the rich." If you'ver read any newspapers or seen the evening news or even just listened to radio news you must have heard Bush's tax cuts referred to as such.

Everyone opposed to the latest cut, those people who forced the irresponsible measure to be cut in half, those who oppose tax cuts that are targeted at the rich - people who really don't need the money other than as a contribution to their political benefactor - while the federal deficit skyrockets to record breaking proportions, people who opposed anther tax cut targeted to the rich while our nation is at "war,"referred to it as such. A tax cut targeted to the wealthiest 10% of Americans. Rich people.

I've even seen rich folks on the TV set saying as how they don't need this here tax cut!

Currently the Democrats insisted on including the poorest families with children - those the Republicans left out of the measure - in the tax cut. And for a few hundred dollars some people are complaining about it like they're getting root canal! Now the Republicans insist on including another $22 billion in the measure (I wonder who that's earmarked for) if the poor are included. Hmmm.....not to blatant. \

Maybe you're right. They aren't emptying the treasury and filling their pockets! They're helping reach the goal of smaller government. As they increase the size of the Department of Homeland Security and invade our private lives.

Yup. I've heard all about how the real cancers of society are the rich. They are slowly eroding our society. Taking from the poor like the Sheriif of Nottingham. :p You want to increase welfare? Make it a separate increased welfare benefits bill. Don't fake generosity for the poor. Aren't a lot of the tax cuts proposed usually a fairly straight percentage? Seems like if the rich pay in more to begin with, they should get more if we cut taxes. I don't consider that a Rich tax cut. They pay a sh1t load more than we do to begin with.Who did you see that was rich on TV saying they don't need the money? Did they also say that they were gonna give it back? haha. Welfare is welfare. As someone stated earlier. I'm not opposed to programs to help people out. I'm opposed to people like one of my relatives who has 4 kids and is living in a trailer waiting to get approved for social security. That's his new scam. He is claiming Bi-polar. There isn't a damn thing wrong with him. He is a strong healthy guy who could work if he wanted to. He's lazy. Lazy. I've helped him out and tried to get him working, but alas, the alure of sitting around smoking dope is too strong. He will get this new taxbreak and I'm pretty sure it won't go towards improving his situation or towards ensuring that his kids have decent clothes to wear. When I was there last week, his daughter was running around in a big shirt and talking about how her parents didn't buy her any pajamas. Say what you will, but this is why we don't need to give Taxbreaks to people that don't pay taxes. The republicans were wrong to capitulate to the dems demands for this type of cut, and it shows a lack of integrity and a concern for polls that shouldn't be the deciding factor in a vote. -Tal

For one, one of the Richest man in America called the tax cut, has called the taxcut "voodoo economics". Not on TV, but on a opinion. Anyone who knows something about economics and investment knows that Warren Buffet's word is right on the money.

Warren Buffet

You dont need to be a investment whiz like Buffet, just need to have a little common sense to understand the tax cut doesnt help the economy at all; which was the intended purpose of the tax cut.

Poor people arent lazy, they're poor for a reason. Not because they dont work hard enough, but because they work too hard and dont get enough money for food, rent, insurance, clothing, car payments and other necessities . Have you tried working at Walmart, raising a kid and being a single parent? Because my "aunt" has. She works two jobs that barely makes enough to pay rent. Our family does the best we can to help her situation, but the welfare check she collects every month helps her the most. She doesnt have time between jobs to pick up her kid from school, not to even mention "smoking dope" or what you conservatives think poor people do.

Welfare is for people like my aunt, the hardworking 70+ hours a week. She needs any breaks she can get. There are of course few abusers of the system, but should we leave the people who really really need the system out to starve?

As for polls... I completely agree. Politicians shouldnt listen to polls, after all polls are the voice of common people... they dont know what they want. Only politicians knows what's good for the people.
rolleye.gif

Dont forget Warren Buffet is the same guy that thinks stock splits are a bad idea. Stock splits keeps stocks afford to all investors.
 

Tal

Golden Member
Jun 29, 2001
1,832
0
0
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
Originally posted by: Tal
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: Tal
Originally posted by: BOBDN
Originally posted by: charrison
Let the service and tax cuts continue. It is time for the federal goverment to determine what is important and what is not. Give the goverment an unlimited budget and they will spend it, restrict it and they are forced to make choices.

So far their choices have been confined to a tax cut for the rich and a war and another tax cut for the rich.

haha. Do you even know any rich people BOBDN? Ever seen one? :) Damn evil richers. We don't like you rich people. Stupid Richy-rich.

This makes you sound like a whiner. How jealous are you that you aren't rich? I'm sorry you haven't had any good ideas on how to make money, but let's not revert to the socialism and wealth redistribution that has worked so well in the USSR.

HAHA YEAH. I never seen no rich folks before. I wonder what they look like? I never knowed any neither. I liked that Richie Rich boy you mentioned though. He was a right nice cartoon character.

My post stated, "So far their choices have been confined to a tax cut for the rich and a war and another tax cut for the rich." If you'ver read any newspapers or seen the evening news or even just listened to radio news you must have heard Bush's tax cuts referred to as such.

Everyone opposed to the latest cut, those people who forced the irresponsible measure to be cut in half, those who oppose tax cuts that are targeted at the rich - people who really don't need the money other than as a contribution to their political benefactor - while the federal deficit skyrockets to record breaking proportions, people who opposed anther tax cut targeted to the rich while our nation is at "war,"referred to it as such. A tax cut targeted to the wealthiest 10% of Americans. Rich people.

I've even seen rich folks on the TV set saying as how they don't need this here tax cut!

Currently the Democrats insisted on including the poorest families with children - those the Republicans left out of the measure - in the tax cut. And for a few hundred dollars some people are complaining about it like they're getting root canal! Now the Republicans insist on including another $22 billion in the measure (I wonder who that's earmarked for) if the poor are included. Hmmm.....not to blatant. \

Maybe you're right. They aren't emptying the treasury and filling their pockets! They're helping reach the goal of smaller government. As they increase the size of the Department of Homeland Security and invade our private lives.

Yup. I've heard all about how the real cancers of society are the rich. They are slowly eroding our society. Taking from the poor like the Sheriif of Nottingham. :p You want to increase welfare? Make it a separate increased welfare benefits bill. Don't fake generosity for the poor. Aren't a lot of the tax cuts proposed usually a fairly straight percentage? Seems like if the rich pay in more to begin with, they should get more if we cut taxes. I don't consider that a Rich tax cut. They pay a sh1t load more than we do to begin with.Who did you see that was rich on TV saying they don't need the money? Did they also say that they were gonna give it back? haha. Welfare is welfare. As someone stated earlier. I'm not opposed to programs to help people out. I'm opposed to people like one of my relatives who has 4 kids and is living in a trailer waiting to get approved for social security. That's his new scam. He is claiming Bi-polar. There isn't a damn thing wrong with him. He is a strong healthy guy who could work if he wanted to. He's lazy. Lazy. I've helped him out and tried to get him working, but alas, the alure of sitting around smoking dope is too strong. He will get this new taxbreak and I'm pretty sure it won't go towards improving his situation or towards ensuring that his kids have decent clothes to wear. When I was there last week, his daughter was running around in a big shirt and talking about how her parents didn't buy her any pajamas. Say what you will, but this is why we don't need to give Taxbreaks to people that don't pay taxes. The republicans were wrong to capitulate to the dems demands for this type of cut, and it shows a lack of integrity and a concern for polls that shouldn't be the deciding factor in a vote. -Tal

For one, one of the Richest man in America called the tax cut, has called the taxcut "voodoo economics". Not on TV, but on a opinion. Anyone who knows something about economics and investment knows that Warren Buffet's word is right on the money.

Warren Buffet

You dont need to be a investment whiz like Buffet, just need to have a little common sense to understand the tax cut doesnt help the economy at all; which was the intended purpose of the tax cut.

Poor people arent lazy, they're poor for a reason. Not because they dont work hard enough, but because they work too hard and dont get enough money for food, rent, insurance, clothing, car payments and other necessities . Have you tried working at Walmart, raising a kid and being a single parent? Because my "aunt" has. She works two jobs that barely makes enough to pay rent. Our family does the best we can to help her situation, but the welfare check she collects every month helps her the most. She doesnt have time between jobs to pick up her kid from school, not to even mention "smoking dope" or what you conservatives think poor people do.

Welfare is for people like my aunt, the hardworking 70+ hours a week. She needs any breaks she can get. There are of course few abusers of the system, but should we leave the people who really really need the system out to starve?

As for polls... I completely agree. Politicians shouldnt listen to polls, after all polls are the voice of common people... they dont know what they want. Only politicians knows what's good for the people.
rolleye.gif

lol. OK. What you conservatives think poor people do? I sat there as my cousin lit up a pipe. WTF? Quit talking out of your ass. You know a hard working poor person and I know a lazy and worthless one. Strict limits is the answer to that. People can get ahead through welfare, but shouldn't be living on it forever.

As for polls... Surely you're not suggesting that we turn this country into a democratic one? Being a Republic has served us well, and ruling my polls and allowing mob rule to be enforced doesn't sound like fun to me. Even some of your liberal thinkers would agree with me there.