Read an interesting book this weekend.

Ausm

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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In an attempt to understand ones of the other Party.

Here is a synopsis.


http://truth-out.org/news/item/8564-can-you-understand-the-republican-brain

041712-karlin.jpg
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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You really went out on a limb reading this one. Was it colored in crayon for you?
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
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I give you props for risking your own brain from assploding trying to comprehend the in-comprehendable.

You have some balls chiming in on a climate change thread seeing as how you think a few inch rise in sea levels destroyed the homes in NY/NJ, not the 14 foot storm surge from Sandy.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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How's math and science working for you, Mr. Democrat? Does everyone in your town still make $100K+/yr?
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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tl;dr - book faults confirmation bias as major source of Republican "rejection of science" while relying on the same principle to generate sales from Democrats who believe Republicans reject science and want to read why.
 

DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
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tl;dr - book faults confirmation bias as major source of Republican "rejection of science" while relying on the same principle to generate sales from Democrats who believe Republicans reject science and want to read why.

"Rejection of science" isn't exactly a complex claim.

1, Is what you do, "Science"? i.e., do you form hypotheses, test them, and put them up for peer review?
2. If not, are you aware of the consensus position of those who do science, and do your beliefs follow that consensus?

If you are aware of the consensus position, do not follow it, and aren't doing original research yourself, you're rejecting science.

MK: How do you scientifically show why the leading ideology of the GOP is a denial of science? After all, every GOP senator denies global warming. Won't they just deny your scientific proof of their rejection of science?
CM: This is pretty easily done. The polling data show overwhelming that conservatives, much more than liberals, deny global warming, deny evolution, think Obama wasn't born in the U.S., think Saddam was collaborating with Al Qaeda, and so on. Tea Partiers tend to be the worst on a lot of these.
 
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Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
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You have failed to incorporate the data that this is a known effect, and thus can be compensated for.
In failing to attempt to disprove your conclusion you have fallen for the very effect you accuse others of falling for.

Conservatards gonna 'tard.

Why would he attempt to disprove his conclusions?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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You have to understand that I brought up this research long enough ago for everybody on the right that was exposed to it have established deep psychological armor to prevent them from believing any of it. Part of the information science has uncovered about the defective brains of conservatives, I love to put it like that since the effect is effectively ineffective thinking, like a bug stuck on a pin may continue to try to walk, is that not only do conservatives reject science, when the science is argued to them they become even more convinced it is wrong. So the more you try to save these fools from their brain dead state, the more brain dead they become. This is about the only satisfaction you can get from them, assuming, of course, you're a sadist.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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You have failed to incorporate the data that this is a known effect, and thus can be compensated for.
In failing to attempt to disprove your conclusion you have fallen for the very effect you accuse others of falling for.

Conservatards gonna 'tard.
Wow. I'm speechless. :eek:

I guess that's par for the course for a "tard" like me.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
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Stupid OP, stupid rest of the thread. "All hacks off the stage"... but then P&N would be quite empty
 
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Hank Campbell wrote an interesting article on one of Chris Mooney's touted "scientific studies".

http://www.science20.com/science_20/can_getting_drunk_make_you_more_conservative-88373

Can Getting Drunk Make You More Conservative?

Wait, a study claims drinking alcohol makes you less likely to throw cultural caution to the wind and spend stupidly? Does. Not. Compute.

Unless it's social psychology, but even then no one is believing it unless they are one of the people writing about how screwed up Republicans are, i.e., need some new framework for the confirmation bias of their audience.

Chris Mooney, writing in Rolling Stone, is in a tough spot. He historically has wanted to talk about actual science, which should make it hard for him not to smirk at a social psychology 'study' conducted outside a bar, but he hates Republicans far more than he loves science, in a way it is difficult to describe to a more moderate, mainstream audience; maybe I can compare it to how Sarah Palin hates coyotes or whatever she shoots out of a helicopter, or how Keith Olbermann hates...okay, Republicans again. Anyway, he hates them a lot. And if he is going to sell books, he has to put 'Republican' in his titles.

He hates Republicans so much so he refuses to ask any awkward questions of any crazy study, including one in which a group of social psychologists stand outside a bar and ask questions designed to gauge the political beliefs of patrons, after which they conduct a breathalyzer test. Then they map the left-right skew to how drunk people are. Total woo, right? Without pseudoscience, there is no book on how Republicans have 'different brains' so we have to give him a break on embracing that stuff, because he isn't writing the book for a science audience, he is writing it for people who want to make fun of their political opposition. Yet he is no cynical opportunist. He believes the stuff he says, just like Ann Coulter does.
For it suggests, in line with a large body of research that I survey in my new book The Republican Brain, that political ideology isn't really what we tend to think it is. It's not just about ideas and philosophies; it’s also about psychological traits and cognitive style – about how people think as much as what they think.
If you read Science 2.0, you are chuckling at that 'body of research' claim - if this same level of research rigor were being issued about the left wing he would not be giving it a free pass but this is in Rolling Stone. To them, it probably is research, because they assume anything with the term 'science' in it is actually science. It's a tremendous disservice to the public to have that colloquial confusion and a large reason why the public increasingly distrusts science; liberal, welcoming scientists have not protected their brand and are letting economists and political scientists and social scientists and progressively ideological whatnots lay claim to having the same rigorous methodology.
(And this isn’t just another case of liberals being smug; this is serious research.)
Well, no, it isn't. Claiming conservatives are 'reactionary' while liberals are 'thoughtful' and 'nuanced'is only serious research if you are on the left, like almost all of social psychology. But 'nuanced' is also a synonym for 'postmodernist' and 'moral relativist' yet those are not self-flattery so they never get used even though left wing people could trademark those concepts.

Let's not dwell on that rampant self-deceit and the posturing of intelligentsia. Spending 200 words debunking the study was not necessary, every one of you in the audience mentally did a better job in 15 seconds than I did writing it all out - and I am not really even criticizing Chris' article. It's actually quite fun to read, if you are not on the right. He notes that
Many liberals will be tempted to cite the latest research to argue that they’re in some way superior, while conservatives may feel insulted by this new assault from academics
which is his wink, wink way of saying 'that is exactly what I intended to accomplish' but if you are only right wing on economic stuff and left on other things, like me, you can just enjoy his thought process and his gift for prose even where he is wrong and you won't be insulted at all - because the foundation of this 'research' is made-up nonsense designed to reaffirm a cultural belief. I liked reading and dissecting Harold Camping's Biblical numerology doomsday prediction the same way. Sometimes I also watch those 'documentaries' on the Shroud of Turin too and that's a good analogy; 'Republicans have a different brain' is basically the Shroud of Turin for the secular left.

I would note for him that the conservative public may feel under assault by 'academics' but the only ones who feel under assault by science academics have been confused by the intentional efforts of cultural pundits to try and conflate social goofiness with real science like biology or physics and whatnot. In just asking general questions of people when I get an idea of their political slant (and so, just as legitimate a method as asking questions outside a bar, though not showing up in any 'journal') I find very few who distrust science. They distrust the humanities - and social psychology belongs more there than it does in the same buildings as science which is why, if you visit more campuses, they are actually over with the humanities. They also distrust climate scientists, because there is a lot of politicking in that field, but I can't find anyone on the right who distrusts biologists or physicists even if I quote numbers about the political participation of those disciplines.

At the end, he even finds a way to rationalize why liberals get drunk a lot more; they are so darn smart they just have to get away from their super smart brains on occasion. In other words, they drink because they need to be more like conservatives - dumber - and stop solving all of the world's problems. It can't be wrong, since Satoshi Kanazawa is the first author. If you don't recall, he is also the evolutionary psychologist who claimed we all evolved to find black women ugly - which had about as equal a level of scientific rigor and caused his employer to dictate that he can no longer publish anything until someone who knows that they are talking about reads it first. He also contends atheists and liberals more intelligent so you can see why he gets cited in this case.

So, yes, in answer to my original question, it is apparently entirely possible that getting drunk makes you more conservative - if by that we mean you are able to stop overthinking topics and working them through a framework of social justice issues and just have an honest reaction to the world around you.

But I have never been a drinker, which is likely why I am in the middle.

Links:

Can Drinking Make You Conservative? (and Other Questions About the Political Brain) by Chris Mooney, March 26, 2012

Scott Eidelman, Christian S. Crandall, Jeffrey A. Goodman, John C. Blanchar, 'Low-Effort Thought Promotes Political Conservatism', Pers Soc Psychol Bull March 16, 2012 doi: 10.1177/0146167212439213

Kanazawa, Satoshi; Hellberg, Josephine E. E. U., 'Intelligence and substance use', Review of General Psychology, Vol 14(4), Dec 2010, 382-396. doi: 10.1037/a0021526
 
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glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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"Rejection of science" isn't exactly a complex claim.

1, Is what you do, "Science"? i.e., do you form hypotheses, test them, and put them up for peer review?
2. If not, are you aware of the consensus position of those who do science, and do your beliefs follow that consensus?

If you are aware of the consensus position, do not follow it, and aren't doing original research yourself, you're rejecting science.

Whether a conservative "rejects science" should be completely irrelevant to a liberal since it makes little practical difference if someone believes in evolution or creationism to use one example. The true underfying reason for the gripes about "rejection of science" among conservatives is due to the conservative rejection of the political positions that liberals hold when those positions are supported using science as justification. At the very least you could be honest and admit you wouldn't give a shit what conservatives believe so long as they agreed with you. For example, the left would happily embrace a conservative who rejected climate change but was onboard with a carbon tax and solar power.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
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You have failed to incorporate the data that this is a known effect, and thus can be compensated for.
In failing to attempt to disprove your conclusion you have fallen for the very effect you accuse others of falling for.

Conservatards gonna 'tard.

Everyone keep in mind, this guy is a crash test dummy.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=31779862&postcount=114

15 seconds is an eternity.
I've been on that side. A lot. When I was on Naval Security and we went through training scenarios, I was usually the practice dummy because I have this ability to make my body act as though I don't know what's coming, making take-downs realistic. (I identify the inclination to pretend, and then I just don't do it.)

I have faced down the cops with a gun. Faced them down with a knife. And I'll tell ya', the only time it takes more than a split second to disengage is when they've got you in a wrist lock so that you can't open your hand.

"Not pointing the gun in your hands in the direction of the cops" is a pretty easy thing to do. While his time in Iraq probably had him trained to face down anything with the barrel of a gun, he was no longer in Iraq. You do not face down the police with a gun -- that has a tendency to get you killed.
As seen here.
 

GreenMeters

Senior member
Nov 29, 2012
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0
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Hank Campbell wrote an interesting article on one of Chris Mooney's touted "scientific studies".

(copy and pasted article deleted)

http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/gpr/14/4/382/

So what was wrong with the study? I saw that the author declared it "woo" and provided ample ad hominem attacks, but never posted or linked anything to actually debunk the study's data, methodology, or conclusion.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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So what was wrong with the study? I saw that the author declared it "woo" and provided ample ad hominem attacks, but never posted or linked anything to actually debunk the study's data, methodology, or conclusion.
Low effort thought has nothing to do with intelligence...it's just an academic term for a type of thought we all do everyday. To conclude this study somehow reinforces a liberal stereotype that conservatives are stupid is...ironically..."low effort thought".
 

GreenMeters

Senior member
Nov 29, 2012
214
0
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Low effort thought has nothing to do with intelligence...it's just an academic term for a type of thought we all do everyday. To conclude this study somehow reinforces a liberal stereotype that conservatives are stupid is...ironically..."low effort thought".

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Why would answering "yes" to "Production and trade should be free of government interference" be classified as low-effort thought moreso than "no"?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,908
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So what was wrong with the study? I saw that the author declared it "woo" and provided ample ad hominem attacks, but never posted or linked anything to actually debunk the study's data, methodology, or conclusion.

You see the word 'touted'? That means the article reaches a false conclusion. A false conclusion is one that differs from a conclusion one has already made. But you can see immediately that the analysis of the touting is exactly what Mooney's work predicts, a self defense against unpleasant emotion. He sees in the truth Mooney presents a hatred of conservatives, his own hatred of himself. Hank Campbell feels he is an asshole and sees hate in anything that proves it. It's called projection.

The modern American conservative mind lives in a bubble that bends the light of reality into an altered state. They can't escape this fate because all information about it is bent to confirm it.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
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Conservative Extremism: Locked into an ideology that distances itself from reality not because it has moved ahead of the status quo but instead has refused to move at all.

The only saving grace the Repub Party has at all is that there are many realists within that, given the opportunity, can take back control of the party that got snatched away from them before they could sufficiently react to the kidnapping.

edit - For now, all these realist Repubs can do is apply some minor damage control, be faithful and go along for the ride.

Good luck with that.
 
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