Reactions to the AnandTech DDR comparison update?!

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AthlonAlien

Senior member
Nov 10, 2004
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Hey guys,

I just finished reading AT's update on the VX vs TCCD comparison for the DFI nf4. I was wanting some feedback on what others thought about it. I have no real loyalties to VX or TCCD. I don't get real crazy about "one is better than the other!" debates. However, the review left me wondering about a few things... First off, why was GSkill not 'really' tested?! At one point, it does mention GSkill, but nothing major. I personally do currently run a set of GSkill PC4400 LE 2x512MB (440) on my machine and think they run great. After reading numerous threads on AT, OCZ, DFI, and XS forums... it seems that the typical overclock for VX is 260-270MHz (2-2-2-6) and for GSkill is 290-300 (2.5-3-3-6/7). Most of ATs comparisons were running VX at 267 (2-2-2-6) vs. TCCD at 280 (2.5-3-3-6). It looks like the VX is a little faster at those speeds. HOWEVER, I think that a more fair comparison would be VX at 260 (2-2-2-6) vs. TCCD at 290 (2.5-3-3-6) or VX at 270 (2-2-2-6) vs. TCCD at 300 (2.5-3-3-6/7). That seems like a better "average" according to most O/C results I have read. It seems like maybe AT got a hold of great O/C VX, but maybe only fair O/C TCCD?! Just some of my thoughts...

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

-Thanks
 
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Sentential

Senior member
Feb 28, 2005
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Alot of people I know have done comparisions between UTT and TCCD. What you have said falls in line with what has been reported. Roughly 260 with the VX is as fast in benches etc as 290 on TCCD with 2.5-3-3.

However I would like to warn you of something. UTT comes in 2 flavors. There is CH type UTT and BH type UTT. The older BH type is what was used in many Value sticks of TwinMOS. They typically maxed out at 240-250.

However there is a newer CH type UTT that was released quite recentally. On average this tends to clock better than the older style process. I belive OCZ is using the newer CH type chips on their PC4000VX. Also I have seen very little VX go past 260. There have been a few but its typically quite rare unless you are using ALOT of voltage (damn near 4)

Even if I am wrong and I have the 2 reversed (CH being better or worse than BH) the fact remains the same. Some work well...some dont. However if you get a set of the OCZ you will get the best type available. If you take a chance on a set of Mushkin Blue or TwinMOS or OCZ value VX you will get the worse clocking stuff.

Also on a side note you really need atleast 3.4v for these to take off. They do fairly poor under that.
 
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Shimmishim

Elite Member
Feb 19, 2001
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yeah... there is some point where the tccd catches up to the VX....

there was a thread about it over at xtreme a while ago but i don't remember what the conclusion was...

VX is nice but so are TCCD at 300+ HTT or mhz 1:1 with 2.5-4-3-X timings
 
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Sentential

Senior member
Feb 28, 2005
677
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Originally posted by: Shimmishim
yeah... there is some point where the tccd catches up to the VX....

there was a thread about it over at xtreme a while ago but i don't remember what the conclusion was...

VX is nice but so are TCCD at 300+ HTT or mhz 1:1 with 2.5-4-3-X timings
Click to expand...

You would be suprised but even with 300 2.5-3-4 still loses to VX @ ~260. OnePageBook had to get his TCCD up past 340 before it started to break even with those aprox timings
 
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imported_Kensai

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
10,855
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Originally posted by: Sentential
Originally posted by: Shimmishim
yeah... there is some point where the tccd catches up to the VX....

there was a thread about it over at xtreme a while ago but i don't remember what the conclusion was...

VX is nice but so are TCCD at 300+ HTT or mhz 1:1 with 2.5-4-3-X timings
Click to expand...

You would be suprised but even with 300 2.5-3-4 still loses to VX @ ~260. OnePageBook had to get his TCCD up past 340 before it started to break even with those aprox timings
Click to expand...


Damn!
 
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Sentential

Senior member
Feb 28, 2005
677
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Originally posted by: Shimmishim
really? how come the AT tests kinda show other wise? or did i miss read them?
Click to expand...

Im not sure, but I will link his thread if I can find it.
 
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Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
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71
I am sorry but that is a lame link to try to prove anything you are saying...

Look at how in the first example as mentioned he is running the cpu 60+ mhz faster...then in the second test though still running much tighter timings and a whopping 240mhz he is only 1400pts or 3.7% faster....I would say I am a bit disappointed and not quite sure how this proves anything. As listed in a link in the other thread you have been visiting ram speed doens't mean as much as cpu speed...I think this based on that notion is flawed for that argument...

take that same 3550 mhz and run that TCCD at 1:1 with the 273HTT and tighter cas 2.5,2.2 and see how high the 3dmark2k1SE score is...
 
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Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
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71
When I responded you only had the OCforum link and that is terribly deceiving due to the much higher clock speeds of both the VX scores

If that is all you had that would have been exactly what I said...i will read the others then comment some more....Still the first link was a lame comparison. I see the 6 responses it was a barn burner topic....

Before anyone says anything I have TCCD, and I am not truly impressed with it, gskill, or this board for ocing ram options....I would love some VX to play with!!! That being said....to be continued...
 
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Sentential

Senior member
Feb 28, 2005
677
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Originally posted by: Duvie
When I responded you only had the OCforum link and that is terribly deceiving due to the much higher clock speeds of both the VX scores

If that is all you had that would have been exactly what I said...i will read the others then comment some more....Still the first link was a lame comparison. I see the 6 responses it was a barn burner topic....

Before anyone says anything I have TCCD, and I am not truly impressed with it, gskill, or this board for ocing ram options....I would love some VX to play with!!! That being said....to be continued...
Click to expand...

I agree wholly. The 1st is lame which is why I went looking for others as evidence of my edit (Edited: 03/30/2005 at 05:54 PM by Sentential) When you saw the thread the database probly hadnt updated yet thus showing only one link.

I knew that OPB had done some comparisions so I did a quick search and found that. Upon posting it and reading it further I realized the same thing you did... (that it sucked)

The latter links are alot better as you can see... :)

_____

I like TCCD alot myself. For its time is has been a great RAM. Now that winbond is back in semi-production perhaps we will *finally* see the ill-fated BH4 if things keep improving the way they have.

As good as TCCD has been the latency of 222 is very noticable on A64s. The sooner we see a high speed RAM with those timings the better. The new UTT is looking very good tho.
 
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Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
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71
The second link was much better but even though there is 60mhz slower ddr with the VX I dont think the less then 1% faster time may justify the cost and voltage the VX may need to run those timings and speed.....I could not pull off those numbers with my board likely though I can pull off 600+ ddr with the TCCD at lower cpu speeds. Can't touch cas 2-2-2 timings at any cpu speed beyond about 430ddr.....I think at 264 cas 2-2-2 takes some serious juice. However many cool GSkill TCCD at 600ddr with 2.75-2.85v with air alone (no heatspreaders on the models)....

I wonder if he could pull off cas 2.5,2,2 timings if you ran a similar HTT as the VX...It would still likely lose but I would like to see the margin.

Sum it up...from that reveiw I wouldn't be overly impressed....

 
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Sentential

Senior member
Feb 28, 2005
677
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Originally posted by: Duvie
The second link was much better but even though there is 60mhz slower ddr with the VX I dont think the less then 1% faster time may justify the cost and voltage the VX may need to run those timings and speed.....I could not pull off those numbers with my board likely though I can pull off 600+ ddr with the TCCD at lower cpu speeds. Can't touch cas 2-2-2 timings at any cpu speed beyond about 430ddr.....I think at 264 cas 2-2-2 takes some serious juice. However many cool GSkill TCCD at 600ddr with 2.75-2.85v with air alone (no heatspreaders on the models)....

I wonder if he could pull off cas 2.5,2,2 timings if you ran a similar HTT as the VX...It would still likely lose but I would like to see the margin.

Sum it up...from that reveiw I wouldn't be overly impressed....
Click to expand...
Its nice but Im with you on this one. Ive never been a fan of BH/UTT. In my mind its just too much effort for very very little gains. TCCD works very well on just about anything and in addition you dont need to worry about your RAM overheating.

The most important point is that TCCD can batch BH5. Eventho the speed required to do so is higher it can still match it. Its a means to an end :) Whatever works.

As for his RAM I'd imagine he was using atleast 3.6v which is indeed alot of power...

 
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Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
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71
"I like TCCD alot myself. For its time is has been a great RAM. Now that winbond is back in semi-production perhaps we will *finally* see the ill-fated BH4 if things keep improving the way they have.

As good as TCCD has been the latency of 222 is very noticable on A64s. The sooner we see a high speed RAM with those timings the better. The new UTT is looking very good tho. "


I agree with this!!!

If I was able to hold Cas 2-2-2 timings I woud stil be running 8x330 with a 133divider. I still need to play with A64 tweaker and maybe a 150 divider at 296HTT and some other tweaks I can get rid of the cas 2.5...

My TCCD actually likes 2.75-2.8v range and not much higher....seems flaky at higher voltage...How about yours???
 
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Sentential

Senior member
Feb 28, 2005
677
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Mine is the same way. Did about 215-210 max @ 2.85 and about 270+ with 2.7v @ 2.5-3-3. The largest jump in DRAM speed occurs between 2.70 and 2.85v. However I will say this. Alot of guys have reported that TCCD actually starts to work with low latency when given 3v and higher (be warned it gets HOT HOT HOT!)
 
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AthlonAlien

Senior member
Nov 10, 2004
428
0
0
Originally posted by: Sentential
Originally posted by: Shimmishim
yeah... there is some point where the tccd catches up to the VX....

there was a thread about it over at xtreme a while ago but i don't remember what the conclusion was...

VX is nice but so are TCCD at 300+ HTT or mhz 1:1 with 2.5-4-3-X timings
Click to expand...

You would be suprised but even with 300 2.5-3-4 still loses to VX @ ~260. OnePageBook had to get his TCCD up past 340 before it started to break even with those aprox timings
Click to expand...


That may be correct for 2.5-4-3-(7), but I was talking about 2.5-3-3-6. It seems that GSkill gets a bigger boost from 6, rather than 7, when using the 3/10P BIOS.

-LaTeR
 
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CheesePoofs

Diamond Member
Dec 5, 2004
3,163
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0
I'd like to see them stick some value ram in there as a benchmark score. Then they'd be able to show how much improvement you get over the stuff thats half the price of the expensive ram.
 
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