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Reach out to the Taliban': British defence secretary

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The Green Bean

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2003
6,506
7
81
Originally posted by: Braznor
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: palehorse74
We're "fascist pigs" for wanting to end the Taliban's brutal daily rapes, murders, and other violent forms of religious oppression?

Well then I guess you're right.
Nope you're fascist pigs for starting an illegal war and wanting to kill every taliban there is - peaceful or not; Armed or not.

You have no right to decide how the people of another country should rule themselves. If you think your ideology is superior to all others and should be implemented forcefully then you prove that you are fascist pigs.
Pakistan created the Taliban so as to create a buffer zone for themselves to fall back on in case of Indian invasion. So who interfered with whom, Green bean?
LOL that's absurd. I think the Indians know better than to invade a nuclear armed country.
 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
3,854
55
91
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: Braznor
There are no ideological discrepancies between the Taliban leadership and their cadres whatsoever.
So you wish to say that's enough of a reason to kill them all? Just like the Nazis thought it was enough of a reason to kill because a person was a jew and believed in jewish beliefs?
I wasn't aware the german jews went about oppressing german women, making their men grow beards, whip them and flog them for mixing opposite sexes, oppress minorities?

Quit using a flawed analogy. Comparing Taliban to oppressed Jews is an insult to those

 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
3,854
55
91
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: Braznor
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: palehorse74
We're "fascist pigs" for wanting to end the Taliban's brutal daily rapes, murders, and other violent forms of religious oppression?

Well then I guess you're right.
Nope you're fascist pigs for starting an illegal war and wanting to kill every taliban there is - peaceful or not; Armed or not.

You have no right to decide how the people of another country should rule themselves. If you think your ideology is superior to all others and should be implemented forcefully then you prove that you are fascist pigs.
Pakistan created the Taliban so as to create a buffer zone for themselves to fall back on in case of Indian invasion. So who interfered with whom, Green bean?
LOL that's absurd. I think the Indians know better than to invade a nuclear armed country.
Of course, but tell your paranoid generals that.
 

The Green Bean

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2003
6,506
7
81
Originally posted by: palehorse74
:confused?! you claimed that I didn't know what/who the Taliban are, and I simply stated that, having met hundreds of their membership, face-to-face, I know them very well.

How does that equate to the nazis in any way, shape, or form!? Are they known for falsely claiming to have met a lot of Jews?!
Yes a Nazi could have claimed that.

They provided direct support for a man, and a group, who killed 3000+ Americans on 9/11. Then, once we went to Afghanistan to kick their fvcking asses, we realized just how evil they are as a group. The atrocities that they commit, on a daily basis, against the people of both Afghanistan and Pakistan, are beyond mercy and; and they're certainly well beyond any possibility of acceptance.
Proof!

I sincerely pray that the Taliban, and all who support them, are erased from the planet forever -- every last evil one of them.
I sincerely pray that all those that wish genocide never get their wish.


All we need are SOF and USAF airstrikes. We will erase the Taliban who currently threaten Afghanistan.

bet?
Bet! Airstrikes will only give birth to more anti-American militias which might this time be supported by the state.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: palehorse74
We're "fascist pigs" for wanting to end the Taliban's brutal daily rapes, murders, and other violent forms of religious oppression?

Well then I guess you're right.
Nope you're fascist pigs for starting an illegal war and wanting to kill every taliban there is - peaceful or not; Armed or not.
I have never met a "peaceful" rapist or murderer.

You have no right to decide how the people of another country should rule themselves. If you think your ideology is superior to all others and should be implemented forcefully then you prove that you are fascist pigs.
In the case of the Taliban, 9/11, and the subsequent refusal by the the Taliban to hand over AQ, changed that.

We're not there to force our own ideology on anyone -- we are there to destroy everyone who supports the Taliban and AQ. Period.
 

The Green Bean

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2003
6,506
7
81
Originally posted by: palehorse74
I have never met a "peaceful" rapist or murderer.
So now you are claiming all Taliban are rapists and murderers. They probably brainwash you to make you believe that at your military academies.



You have no right to decide how the people of another country should rule themselves. If you think your ideology is superior to all others and should be implemented forcefully then you prove that you are fascist pigs.
In the case of the Taliban, 9/11, and the subsequent refusal by the the Taliban to hand over AQ, changed that.

We're not there to force our own ideology on anyone -- we are there to destroy everyone who supports the Taliban and AQ. Period.
I've had enough replying to your insane nonsense posts. Your supremacist fascist ideas will fail sooner or later and I just hope for their sake that the saner Americans realize it before fascists like you hold anything important for them. Now get the f*** out of my thread.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Proof!
Do you honestly need more proof that the Taliban commits atrocities and violently opporesses the areas they control? for real!?

you're in serious denial son.

I sincerely pray that all those that wish genocide never get their wish.
It's not "genocide" to destroy a violent cult.

Bet! Airstrikes will only give birth to more anti-American militias which might this time be supported by the state.
We'll chase them out of NW Pakistan the same way we forced them to retreat there in the first place. Clearing the Taliban and AQ out of the entire country of Afghanistan took less six months.

That's why I said you better get the Pakistani military ready to sweep up any cockroaches who get away.

We can even give your weak-ass military all the credit!! i couldn't care less.. as long as we put a stop to the Taliban's cross-border attacks into Afghanistan, the rest is all gravy...
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: palehorse74
I have never met a "peaceful" rapist or murderer.
So now you are claiming all Taliban are rapists and murderers.
Yes -- every single one of them that I have ever met (100+), leaders and members alike, were murderers and rapists.

Thanks for keeping up.

They probably brainwash you to make you believe that at your military academies.
I've seen their handiwork first-hand; and I've never attended a "military academy." I have more than likely killed a few Taliban myself, and I will do so again if/when I am given the opportunity.

I've had enough replying to your insane nonsense posts. Your supremacist fascist ideas will fail sooner or later and I just hope for their sake that the saner Americans realize it before fascists like you hold anything important for them. Now get the f*** out of my thread.
no.

We'll see you soon.
 

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
3,854
55
91
Originally posted by: palehorse74

We'll chase them out of NW Pakistan the same way we forced them to retreat there in the first place. Clearing the Taliban and AQ out of the entire country of Afghanistan took less six months.

That's why I said you better get the Pakistani military ready to sweep up any cockroaches who get away.

We can even give your weak-ass military all the credit!! i couldn't care less.. as long as we put a stop to the Taliban's cross-border attacks into Afghanistan, the rest is all gravy...
You are making a grave mistake here. The Pakistani military will simply wink and let these elements melt away into their countryside. Look at the instance of their forces arranging fake surrenders to the Taliban and their allies. It will be a simple case of a strategic retreat for them, one they already succeeded in doing once.

Remember you will be there today, gone tomorrow. But they have to live with these vermin forever.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: Braznor
Originally posted by: palehorse74

We'll chase them out of NW Pakistan the same way we forced them to retreat there in the first place. Clearing the Taliban and AQ out of the entire country of Afghanistan took less six months.

That's why I said you better get the Pakistani military ready to sweep up any cockroaches who get away.

We can even give your weak-ass military all the credit!! i couldn't care less.. as long as we put a stop to the Taliban's cross-border attacks into Afghanistan, the rest is all gravy...
You are making a grave mistake here. The Pakistani military will simply wink and let these elements melt away into their countryside. Look at the instance of their forces arranging fake surrenders to the Taliban and their allies. It will be a simple case of a strategic retreat for them, one they already succeeded in doing once.

Remember you will be there today, gone tomorrow. But they have to live with these vermin forever.
Well, that will be there own problem to solve. Like I said, all I care about is stopping the Taliban influence and attacks on Afghan and NATO forces in Afghanistan.

If they retreat to the streets of Islamabad, and stay there, then I couldnt care less.

I foresee the creation of a DMZ between the two countries, one in which we'll kill anything that moves.

If it comes down to that, then so be it.
 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
4,814
0
71
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
'Reach out to the Taliban': British defence secretary LONDON, March 29 (AFP) - Britain should reach out to elements of the Taliban militia in Afghanistan who can be won over to the side of democracy, Defence Secretary Des Browne said in an interview published in Daily Telegraph Saturday. Browne said conflict resolution was about persuading people who believe that violence is the way to achieve their aims to try to fulfil their ambitions through politics instead. And that meant engaging with individuals or groups, even if their views were disagreeable. He applied the argument to Taliban insurgents as well as Lebanon's Hezbollah. His comments come after Jonathan Powell, who was former prime minister Tony Blair's top adviser, said in a March 15 interview with The Guardian that Western nations should talk to the likes of the Taliban, Hamas and Al-Qaeda. (Posted @ 09:50 PST)
I think this should have been done a long time before. Before the Afghan war itself. I think the British now realize that they can not defeat the Taliban as easily as the initially thought. Even the new Pakistani PM thinks the same.

PM Gilani asks militants to abandon path of violence; vows restoration of deposed judges ISLAMABAD, March 29 (AFP): Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani Saturday urged militants to renounce violence and offered to hold talks with those who give up arms and join the new democratic era. Addressing the parliament after wining a unanimous vote of confidence, Gilani said terrorism was the biggest threat undermining Pakistan's stability. ?Our first priority will be restoration of law and order and elimination of terrorism from the country,? said Gilani. ?The fight against terrorism is our own fight because it has claimed innocent lives of children and young men of Pakistan?unfortunately some people have made violence a means to express their views. I appeal to all those people to abandon the path of violence and join us in the journey of democracy.? Gilani promised a special package of political and economic reforms in tribal areas as part of government strategy to fight terrorism and extremism. Gilani also said his government would continue efforts to reinstate judges ousted by President Musharraf in November last year under emergency rule and said the government would ensure the independence of the judiciary. (First Posted @ 13:25 PST, Updated @ 14:40 PST)
I guess it is up to the American people now to make their war-criminal leaders stop this needless war and bloodshed. It is time for them to do something instead of ducking their faces in to the ground like ostriches. The American Empire's fall has started. When will people learn not to over stretch their resources?



de·moc·ra·cy /d?'m?kr?si/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-mok-ruh-see] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
?noun, plural -cies. 1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.
2. a state having such a form of government: The United States and Canada are democracies.
3. a state of society characterized by formal equality of rights and privileges.
4. political or social equality; democratic spirit.

does the word Democracy have an equivilant word in your language?
Is Democracy supported in Islam teaching? If so please quote the verses.
thanks
 

event8horizon

Senior member
Nov 15, 2007
674
0
0
green bean, palehorse isnt much more than a propagandist. just ask him about this. the link between gen mahmud ahmad and the terrorist mastermind mohamed atta. so where is the taliban is this connection?? the taliban offered bin laden to the u.s. is they had evidence. if AQ's headman is OBL and he is a billionaire, then why would the leader of the isi send Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh (mi6) to wire atta 100,000. where is the OBL or AQ link.

new delhi: while the pakistani inter services public relations claimed that former isi director-general lt-gen mahmud ahmad sought retirement after being superseded on monday, the truth is more shocking. top sources confirmed here on tuesday, that the general lost his job because of the "evidence" india produced to show his links to one of the suicide bombers that wrecked the world trade centre. the us authorities sought his removal after confirming the fact that $100,000 were wired to wtc hijacker mohammed atta from pakistan by ahmad umar sheikh at the instance of gen mahumd. senior government sources have confirmed that india contributed significantly to establishing the link between the money transfer and the role played by the dismissed isi chief. while they did not provide details, they said that indian inputs, including sheikh?s mobile phone number, helped the fbi in tracing and establishing the link. a direct link between the isi and the wtc attack could have enormous repercussions. the us cannot but suspect whether or not there were other senior pakistani army commanders who were in the know of things. evidence of a larger conspiracy could shake us confidence in pakistan?s ability to participate in the anti-terrorism coalition. indian officials say they are vitally interested in the unravelling of the case since it could link the isi directly to the hijacking of the indian airlines kathmandu-delhi flight to kandahar last december. ahmad umar sayeed sheikh is a british national and a london school of economics graduate who was arrested by the police in delhi following a bungled 1994 kidnapping of four westerners, including an american citizen.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes...cleshow/1454238160.cms
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: event8horizon
green bean, palehorse isnt much more than a propagandist. just ask him about this. the link between gen mahmud ahmad and the terrorist mastermind mohamed atta. so where is the taliban is this connection?? the taliban offered bin laden to the u.s. is they had evidence. if AQ's headman is OBL and he is a billionaire, then why would the leader of the isi send Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh (mi6) to wire atta 100,000. where is the OBL or AQ link.

new delhi: while the pakistani inter services public relations claimed that former isi director-general lt-gen mahmud ahmad sought retirement after being superseded on monday, the truth is more shocking. top sources confirmed here on tuesday, that the general lost his job because of the "evidence" india produced to show his links to one of the suicide bombers that wrecked the world trade centre. the us authorities sought his removal after confirming the fact that $100,000 were wired to wtc hijacker mohammed atta from pakistan by ahmad umar sheikh at the instance of gen mahumd. senior government sources have confirmed that india contributed significantly to establishing the link between the money transfer and the role played by the dismissed isi chief. while they did not provide details, they said that indian inputs, including sheikh?s mobile phone number, helped the fbi in tracing and establishing the link. a direct link between the isi and the wtc attack could have enormous repercussions. the us cannot but suspect whether or not there were other senior pakistani army commanders who were in the know of things. evidence of a larger conspiracy could shake us confidence in pakistan?s ability to participate in the anti-terrorism coalition. indian officials say they are vitally interested in the unravelling of the case since it could link the isi directly to the hijacking of the indian airlines kathmandu-delhi flight to kandahar last december. ahmad umar sayeed sheikh is a british national and a london school of economics graduate who was arrested by the police in delhi following a bungled 1994 kidnapping of four westerners, including an american citizen.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes...cleshow/1454238160.cms
Jesus H christ... :roll:
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
You should always reach out to your enemy diplomatically if possible. You are more likely to reach an understanding and settle things amicably.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
The stupidity of of teh following palehorse74 contention has to be a classic---We're not there to force our own ideology on anyone -- we are there to destroy everyone who supports the Taliban and AQ. Period.

Which is the quid essential definition of palehorse74 forcing his ideology on everyone.

And somewhat misses the point. Al-Quida does not equal the taliban. They are different organizations with different goals. And to pretend that arrogant prigs in our own leadership who espouse palehorse74 type positions do not have the net effect of increasing taliban and Al-Quida support is naive in the extreme.

And is made even more glaring by palehorse74 open threat to TGB that he is coming to deal death to every Pakistani moderate in all of Pakistan. As if that is the answer, kill the Green Bean, kill kill kill. Then on to China, only over a billion people to kill there, have gun will travel.

I can only say to The Green Bean, America is not a basically fascist country even though our current leadership acts like it. Our current delusions are only temporary, soon we will replace our current leadership with smarter types, and Pakistan, Afghanistan, India and the USA can jointly help build a better and more rational world, even if your region does not exist in a vacuum.. Or thus is my hope. I am very confident that the taliban and Al-Quida will be handicapped in competing in the free marketplace of ideas. But even if palehorse74 does not know it yet, he will also be the big loser in the free marketplace of ideas. He already is, see palehorse74 fail, see palehorse74 make excuses, see palehorse74 boast, and given all the tools we have given him, he can't see that force is not the answer and that his ideas fail. A guaranteed way to fail in the free marketplace of ideas.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: Lemon law
And is made even more glaring by palehorse74 open threat to TGB that he is coming to deal death to every Pakistani moderate in all of Pakistan.
I never said any such thing. As usual, in lieu of any understanding of the material being discussed, you cast generalizations and other nonsensical tidbits in a deranged effort to make yourself look educated on the subject; while, in fact, there are kids in grade-school who understand more about the current war in Afghanistan than you ever will.

I would sincerely appreciate it if you NEVER put words in my mouth again.

We will be coming for the Taliban and AQ, wherever they can be found -- so, unless TGB is one of theirs, or supports them directly, he and the rest of the moderate Pakistanis have nothing to fear.. at all.

Like I said, we have one goal, and one goal only -- that is, we will eradicate the Taliban, AQ, and anyone who supports them. Period.

As if that is the answer, kill the Green Bean, kill kill kill. Then on to China, only over a billion people to kill there, have gun will travel.
Those who are not Taliban, AQ, or any other version of anti-American violent extremist, have nothing whatsoever to fear from the United States and our allies.

But, if the shoe fits...

I can only say to The Green Bean, America is not a basically fascist country even though our current leadership acts like it. Our current delusions are only temporary, soon we will replace our current leadership with smarter types, and Pakistan, Afghanistan, India and the USA can jointly help build a better and more rational world, even if your region does not exist in a vacuum.. Or thus is my hope. I am very confident that the taliban and Al-Quida will be handicapped in competing in the free marketplace of ideas. But even if palehorse74 does not know it yet, he will also be the big loser in the free marketplace of ideas. He already is, see palehorse74 fail, see palehorse74 make excuses, see palehorse74 boast, and given all the tools we have given him, he can't see that force is not the answer and that his ideas fail. A guaranteed way to fail in the free marketplace of ideas.
LOL.. when was the last time you had an original thought? you've certainly never presented any ideas here.. at least none that were "marketable."

You're a misguided fucking joke.
 

crisscross

Golden Member
Apr 29, 2001
1,598
0
71
So.. the Taliban destroyed buddhist statues, pretty much thinks women are inferior to men in every possible way and denies them medical care, education and jobs. Allows a plane hijacking (IC-814) by terrorists. But yes we should definitely talk to them they are definitely extremely sane and rational people.
 

The Green Bean

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2003
6,506
7
81
Originally posted by: crisscross
Allows a plane hijacking (IC-814) by terrorists.
Proof? All planes that were hijacked were domestic flights. Using your logic it was the Americans that allowed the planes to be hijacked not the taliban. Go kill all security officials at all the airports responsible for their support for the hijackers. People who believe stupid arguments that your media and government brainwash you with make me sick! :disgust:
 

crisscross

Golden Member
Apr 29, 2001
1,598
0
71
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: crisscross
Allows a plane hijacking (IC-814) by terrorists.
Proof? All planes that were hijacked were domestic flights. Using your logic it was the Americans that allowed the planes to be hijacked not the taliban. Go kill all security officials at all the airports responsible for their support for the hijackers. People who believe stupid arguments that your media and government brainwash you with make me sick! :disgust:
err I am talking about the Indian Airlines Flight IC-814 which was hijacked IC-814

The Taliban authorities initially refused to cooperate with Indian authorities to secure a release of the hostages. They also emphatically refused to allow Indian commandos to storm the plane. They refused the request to let Afghan commandos storm the plane, as well. Their plea was that they wouldn't allow a foreign military outfit to operate in Afghanistan and they themselves are not capable to undertake such an operation. (It has since been confirmed that this hijacking was carried out with the official support/complicity of the Taliban and the Al Qaeda). The Taliban encircled the plane with tanks and heavily armed militia in a bid to stop any forceful storming by Indian Special Forces. Negotiations opened up between the Indian embassy officials and the hijackers.
So I should blame the Americans for this?
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
The delusion present in this thread is that there is some concrete definition of good and evil and that concrete definition can be defined as a single variable. But the palehorse delusion is that he is that GOD appointed arbiter, who can go into another society, and unerringly distinguish the people who are 100% evil and leave unscathed the people who are 100% good. Perhaps because the taliban wear black hats that say T and Al-Quida wears black hats saying AQ.

And that somehow both Al-Quida and the Taliban are simply people who were born conceived in sin. Predestined to be tainted by bad ideas and incapable of ever learning better. And they started out by picking the wings of flies, and went on to band together with a goal of tearing down society because they just hate everyone. And in a sense, one can always find a few such examples. And if we listed to the British in 1776, our George Washington was one such person along with Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, and the rest of those rabble rousers. And since they could not be persuaded, they had to be hunted down and killed.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, AQ and the taliban think they are the good guys and they are saving their world from the bad guys in GWB, Palehorse, and the rest of the evil Western imperialists. And at least in the case of the taliban, they are also saving their world from their own home grown thugs who set up their own private fiefdoms. And to do so, they must embrace their romantic old way of life that never really was before the Western imperialists came. With the rather draconian measure of disenfranchising 50% of their population, namely all females, in the process. Normally such religious states have limited shelf lives, the people rebel when these leaders themselves become decadent. But in the grand scheme of things, at least the taliban did break the power of the war lords that were holding Afghanistan in state of near perpetual anarchy that the petty squabble of the US and the Soviet Union helped create. And on the good side of the ledger, Afghanistan was finally moving towards a state of nationhood where trade and commerce was becoming possible because goods could be transported because thievery was now stopped. And left alone, Afghanistan would have started resembling much of Pakistan which was embracing modernity and the benefits it brings.

As we all know, AL-Quida and not the taliban attacked us, and now we are in this big snit. And we can't see that things are multi dimensional, and are reduced to the same romantic failings the taliban has about preserving a way of life that never was. We see nothing but evil in them and they see nothing but evil in us.

I can't per say disagree with palehorse that the taliban represents the wrong road for both Afghanistan and Pakistan, I am simply saying we have to show them rather than force them. And because we have built nothing in Iraq and Afghanistan, we have nothing to show.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
67,487
4,159
126
Originally posted by: Lemon law
The delusion present in this thread is that there is some concrete definition of good and evil and that concrete definition can be defined as a single variable. But the palehorse delusion is that he is that GOD appointed arbiter, who can go into another society, and unerringly distinguish the people who are 100% evil and leave unscathed the people who are 100% good. Perhaps because the taliban wear black hats that say T and Al-Quida wears black hats saying AQ.

And that somehow both Al-Quida and the Taliban are simply people who were born conceived in sin. Predestined to be tainted by bad ideas and incapable of ever learning better. And they started out by picking the wings of flies, and went on to band together with a goal of tearing down society because they just hate everyone. And in a sense, one can always find a few such examples. And if we listed to the British in 1776, our George Washington was one such person along with Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, and the rest of those rabble rousers. And since they could not be persuaded, they had to be hunted down and killed.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, AQ and the taliban think they are the good guys and they are saving their world from the bad guys in GWB, Palehorse, and the rest of the evil Western imperialists. And at least in the case of the taliban, they are also saving their world from their own home grown thugs who set up their own private fiefdoms. And to do so, they must embrace their romantic old way of life that never really was before the Western imperialists came. With the rather draconian measure of disenfranchising 50% of their population, namely all females, in the process. Normally such religious states have limited shelf lives, the people rebel when these leaders themselves become decadent. But in the grand scheme of things, at least the taliban did break the power of the war lords that were holding Afghanistan in state of near perpetual anarchy that the petty squabble of the US and the Soviet Union helped create. And on the good side of the ledger, Afghanistan was finally moving towards a state of nationhood where trade and commerce was becoming possible because goods could be transported because thievery was now stopped. And left alone, Afghanistan would have started resembling much of Pakistan which was embracing modernity and the benefits it brings.

As we all know, AL-Quida and not the taliban attacked us, and now we are in this big snit. And we can't see that things are multi dimensional, and are reduced to the same romantic failings the taliban has about preserving a way of life that never was. We see nothing but evil in them and they see nothing but evil in us.

I can't per say disagree with palehorse that the taliban represents the wrong road for both Afghanistan and Pakistan, I am simply saying we have to show them rather than force them. And because we have built nothing in Iraq and Afghanistan, we have nothing to show.
Did I mention, we are all the same?
 

The Green Bean

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2003
6,506
7
81
Originally posted by: palehorse74
TGB, do you know any Taliban members personally?

Just curious...
No. I'm against the taliban myself but your method of dealing with them is unacceptable.
 

BMW540I6speed

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2005
1,055
0
0
Palehorse74 said:
We're not there to force our own ideology on anyone -- we are there to destroy everyone who supports the Taliban and AQ. Period.
Heh.., the deep ignorance of our government is inexcusable. It's no secret that the ISI is, at best, ambivalent about "fighting" against the Taliban and the Pashtuns going back and forth across the border. And how can we do anything if what should be our most highly trained intelligence and special forces personnel are rotated out before they even know which end is up much less have any fluency in Pashto?

We have a government that believes it can coopt "allies" into performing American policy as opposed to their own. What led them to expect honest cooperation from the ISI? Did anyone really believe that it would be in Pakistan's interest to actually support an American takeover of Afghanistan?"



 

tvarad

Golden Member
Jun 25, 2001
1,130
0
0
Lemon Law,

"I can't per say disagree with palehorse that the taliban represents the wrong road for both Afghanistan and Pakistan, I am simply saying we have to show them rather than force them. And because we have built nothing in Iraq and Afghanistan, we have nothing to show."

I don't think these folks are the kind that think "If the West leaves us alone, we could do the normal things in life like educate our children, build hospitals and electricity plants, supply water, build bridges etc.". Remember that the Taliban, along with Al-Qaeda had Afghanistan pretty much to themselves in the '90s and they were more interested in maintaining beard length, women in shuttlecock clothing, waging war, cutting off hands and feet etc..

Islamism, like any other "ism" is a threat that is real and has to be faced up to. The first footsteps that were taken in that direction like invading Iraq were obviously the wrong ones but hopefully the lessons will be learned.
 

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