RE: the 'Missing' WMD

[CaptnKirk]

Accountability ?

We gassed our own people.

 

[conjur]

Oh yeah...that's been a big source of contention for years.

BTW, somewhat related are some very interesting investigations. These are long reads but well worth it:

http://www.gwvi.ncr.gov/0416gulf.html

http://www.gulfweb.org/doc_show.cfm?ID=532

 

[Gaard]

The government has so far refused to acknowledge that Gulf War syndrome exists.

?

 

[chess9]

A soldier I met at the Orlando VA Center claims his nerve damage and mental problems were caused by exposure to an unknown chemical in Iraq in 1991!

When he told me his story he was so whacked out (he didn't make a lot of sense at first) I figured he was a nut case. Well, I was right on that score because he has definite "deficits". Whether exposure to toxic gases or agents was the proximate cause of his injury is the subject of an ongoing medical investigation. They haven't turned down his disability claim yet and they are treating him, so kudos so far to the VA. I wonder if his lawyer has this information? Sheez, and I don't even know the poor guy's name. Ugh.... Now, if Conjur had been there he would have given him 500 links in triplicate.

War is hell.

-Robert

 

[conjur]

LOL!

I've been in online debates on a local forum w/a former Marine who claims he was victim to a chemical agent attack from Iraq during the 1991 war. He was supposedly monitoring detectors and they were going off. I did research to try and validate his claim as I never heard of any chemical attack coming from Iraq. The only chemical weapon-induced injuries were from inadvertent contact with mustard gas or that huge explosion at Nasariyah (sp?)

Anyway, that's where I came across that first link I posted above. Apparently, when a Scud was intercepted by a Patriot, the propellant exploded and emitted some chemical vapor that mimicked a chemical weapon attack and set off the detectors. Some people reported side effects then but investigation showed they were inconsistent with expected side effects of a chemical weapon attack.

15 MR. TURNER: So there was a SCUD launch on

the

16 20th of January that coincides with this incident?

17 LTC MARTIN: Approximately the same time,

yes.

18 MR. TURNER: A SCUD carries nitric acid, it

has

19 red-fuming nitric acid as one of its propellants. Would

you

20 tell the panel a bit about what the possible effects of

21 destroying a missile with that kind of propellant on it

22 would be?

23 LTC MARTIN: Well, if a SCUD does not fly its

24 extended path, it would not burn up all of its propellant

or

25 its oxidizer which is the red-fuming nitric acid, so if it

148

1 was intercepted and it had not completed its path, chances

2 are if it was intercepted some of this propellant and

3 oxidizer may have been released, and the effects of red-

4 fuming nitric acid is similar to any acid exposure. It

5 would cause some burning sensations.

6 MR. TURNER: Could it cause respiratory

problems,

7 Colonel Martin?

8 LTC KOENIGSBERG: Yes, it would.

9 MR. TURNER: And I'm sorry, actually you're

better

10 to answer that one, Colonel Koenigsberg.

11 MS. TAYLOR: Would that be -- that's short-term

12 effect. Would there be any long-term effects?

13 COL KOENIGSBERG: That is a short-term as

opposed

14 to, say, a mustard agent which as you heard in this

15 morning's testimony, there is a delay of four to eight

hours

16 before you start getting symptoms from a mustard agent.

You

17 don't feel the burning on your skin, nor on a neurotoxic

18 agent do you feel it immediately.

19 MS. KIDD TAYLOR: As a follow-up, would there be

20 any possibility that after that exposure there could be

21 recurring complications, skin rashes?

22 COL KOENIGSBERG: We don't know of any. There's

23 not that much literature on the exposure to red-fuming

24 nitric acid. The stuff that's out there says that it acts

25 like any other acid. Would you get a reaction, an

immediate

149

1 burn? Yes. Once it's off the skin, theoretically you

2 shouldn't keep getting recurring rashes and things of this

3 nature from the red-fuming nitric acid.

4 MR. TURNER: Is it fair to summarize your

5 testimony as we don't know what happened at Al Jubail, but

6 something happened and we need to find out what it was?

7 LTC MARTIN: Yes. But the symptoms exhibited by

8 the personnel there are not in sync with a normal blister

or

9 nerve agent exposure.

10 MR. TURNER: So the symptoms are not consistent

11 with an acute clinical exposure to either nerve agent or

12 mustard agent; is that correct?

13 LTC MARTIN: That's correct.

14 COL KOENIGSBERG: And I think I'd like to point

15 out that we have talked to quite a few people in that

unit.

16 We've talked to the physician assistant who was treating

the

17 patients, who saw the people on those days following these

18 two incidents. We've talked to the commander of the unit.

19 I don't know really how much further we're going to be

able

20 to go in this particular incident to get at what caused

it.

21 I think we can say some things about what might

22 probably didn't cause it, but whatever did happen, we

don't

23 know what it was that they were exposed to, and I don't

know

24 where else can go.

 

[chess9]

Yes, I'm sure proving these cases is a nightmare for the lawyers. In most cases the proof isn't available, I'm certain.

I was exposed to chemicals in the Marines intentionally as part of my training to be the ABC Warfare NCO at my base. They put shaving cream on my left forearm, then put mustard agent in it. It gave me a nasty burn and left a scar which is still visible over 40 years later. That stuff is pretty bad!

-Robert

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: chess9
Yes, I'm sure proving these cases is a nightmare for the lawyers. In most cases the proof isn't available, I'm certain.

I was exposed to chemicals in the Marines intentionally as part of my training to be the ABC Warfare NCO at my base. They put shaving cream on my left forearm, then put mustard agent in it. It gave me a nasty burn and left a scar which is still visible over 40 years later. That stuff is pretty bad!

-Robert

Finland 15 years ago we went into a small cabin where gas was released, those who didn't remove their hair from their mask threw up in it and ran around trying to get out. We tried the mustard thing too, on our backs, without the shaving cream.

Chemical excersises are no fun.