Discussion RDNA4 + CDNA3 Architectures Thread

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DisEnchantment

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With the GFX940 patches in full swing since first week of March, it is looking like MI300 is not far in the distant future!
Usually AMD takes around 3Qs to get the support in LLVM and amdgpu. Lately, since RDNA2 the window they push to add support for new devices is much reduced to prevent leaks.
But looking at the flurry of code in LLVM, it is a lot of commits. Maybe because US Govt is starting to prepare the SW environment for El Capitan (Maybe to avoid slow bring up situation like Frontier for example)

See here for the GFX940 specific commits
Or Phoronix

There is a lot more if you know whom to follow in LLVM review chains (before getting merged to github), but I am not going to link AMD employees.

I am starting to think MI300 will launch around the same time like Hopper probably only a couple of months later!
Although I believe Hopper had problems not having a host CPU capable of doing PCIe 5 in the very near future therefore it might have gotten pushed back a bit until SPR and Genoa arrives later in 2022.
If PVC slips again I believe MI300 could launch before it :grimacing:

This is nuts, MI100/200/300 cadence is impressive.

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Previous thread on CDNA2 and RDNA3 here

 
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Ghostsonplanets

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The Navi 4 follows the Navi 3 by removing the older design to improve density.

Is it? I thought they aimed higher, closer to a 7700 xt than a 7600, but that seems excessive. 128 bit bus is not surprising but a bit disappointing if it's not on GDDR7 and doesn't get a 12/10Go version.

The current (botched ofc) N33 is 202mm² I believe.
So...we're looking at a possible ~50% improvement, plus a 20% general improvement from the lost perf in RDNA 3.
Seems consistent with earlier RDNA gens, no? 50% per gen? Although that's perf not area.
Navi 44 should be rough in-line with 4060 Ti/Radeon 6750XT according to rumors iirc. Maybe even the 7700XT.

130mm² size might be in part due to N4P manufacturing node, but it's still very impressive. We need to remember that this is a monolithic die with a huge amount of cache onboard, which doesn't shrink much from N6 -> N5. That AMD still was able to get such level of reduction in are is quite impressive imo.

I really wonder how AMD will price N44. 130mm² is so small that they would be able to release a very cheap part. Maybe the return of $199 budget GPUs? Would be amazing.
 

Mahboi

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AMD would much rather have the margin than get into a price competition with NV. Especially since a lot of buyers don't want to buy AMD they just want to buy NV for less (or get a higher tier at the same price).
This market is never getting healed with this situation. The NV mind control is so damn prevalent.
at least should be 8/16, If they going 16GB version for 300$ with around 7700XT perf, gonna be nice card for 1080p

anyway leakers still hiding from us RT perfomance :p
I was more thinking of a GDDR7 version with 2Go and later 3Go chips, getting us 8/12 and a cut down to 10. I don't think 16Go on a card this small is serious, it's quite a waste.
I really wonder how AMD will price N44. 130mm² is so small that they would be able to release a very cheap part. Maybe the return of $199 budget GPUs? Would be amazing.
I don't buy it at all.
Their current low end offerings are overpriced and just bad. If they have a really good part, they're certainly not doing it for cheap, at least not for DIY.
It may be very very very interesting to see it in laptops though, wonder what price they'll offer for OEMs.
 
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Jul 27, 2020
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The NV mind control is so damn prevalent.
We can't do anything in laptops but in desktop, I personally have shunned Geforce 4000 series until I find something used at a throwaway price. If I don't, I won't care coz I already got a cheap 3090 for $600 right after the mining market crashed. Maybe this is what people should do to knock some sense into Jensen. Keep buying their older stuff used until they panic due to lack of sales and drop their current gen prices.
 
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130mm² size might be in part due to N4P manufacturing node, but it's still very impressive. We need to remember that this is a monolithic die with a huge amount of cache onboard, which doesn't shrink much from N6 -> N5. That AMD still was able to get such level of reduction in are is quite impressive imo.
Small size, higher logic density and lots of cache? Sounds like a recipe for extreme heat output. How are they gonna cool this scorching hot piece of silicon beauty?
 

Ghostsonplanets

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Small size, higher logic density and lots of cache? Sounds like a recipe for extreme heat output. How are they gonna cool this scorching hot piece of silicon beauty?
Navi 24 is ~107mm² and clocks at 2.8GHz. Ryzen 7545U iGPU has 2 WGPs clocking at 2.8GHz too. I'm not worried.

Navi 44 will probably clock at 3GHz+. And I don't doubt, by the time Navi 5 comes, we'll be seeing GPUs being clocked at ~4GHz.

AMD cross-pollination between CPU and GPU divisions will flourish in a beautiful way.
 
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Hans Gruber

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Is there any truth to RDNA3 being broken from the outset? Will RDNA4 work correctly upon release? Remember when they were talking about 3ghz GPU's.
 

SolidQ

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s there any truth to RDNA3 being broken from the outset? Will RDNA4 work correctly upon release?
That what we know for now
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Mahboi

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Is there any truth to RDNA3 being broken from the outset? Will RDNA4 work correctly upon release? Remember when they were talking about 3ghz GPU's.
You're STILL asking????
Projected clocks were missed by 20%, perf is way below announced, power draw at idle and load are awful. What doubts are there to have still?
RDNA 3.5 will show what RDNA 3 was meant to be in a few months anyway.
 

Mahboi

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I'm not sure what people mean by Ampere/Ada "levels".

IIRC RDNA2/3 suffers with the number of light bounces, I.E, AMD RT is not very good, but acceptable for most games. Some (Nvidia supported ones) like Portal RTX, Cyberpunk and I think Control (possibly Alan Wake?), that use more bounces than necessary, dumpster the AMD RT performance. I think it takes an XTX from being roughly a 3080 Ti competitor in RT down to a 3070.
If they fix that, already we're getting "Ampere levels" even just with RDNA 3 performance. An XTX is somewhere in the relatively higher end of Ampere. Sure, it should compete with Lovelace in the first place, but I don't see how "is it Ampere, or is it Lovelace" is the question when Blackwell will be the competitor.

If it's about "RT with Ampere makes you lose 38% framerate, with Ada it's 31%, RT with RDNA 3 makes you lose 45%", then I'd worry more about how much extra silicon has been pushed into a matmul engine. Which is going to be a cost tradeoff. And we know how much AMD is obsessed with saving every penny.
 

Mahboi

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adding BVH walker.
that's it
So fixing the light bounce inefficiency. That's make everything faster, but I don't see how that'll suddenly give a "performance tier".
I don't think AMD cares to beat NV in RT performance with RDNA 4 anyway, they'll use it as a weaning gen, if they wanted to go for the throat, we'd see Navi 41.
Enjoy the smol & good GPUs and wait for RDNA 5 all over again to see a real attempt. If it is one, that is.
 

Mahboi

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At least they should care, about 4070ti/super level with N48
Why that level specifically?
4070 Ti/Super is the "touch 4K by the fingertips" tier.
If you're already touching 4K but barely, and you get a heavy workload like RT, I don't see you being good enough for it.
 

SolidQ

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Doesn't matter in phones/APUs even zilch so not really.
i'm talking about N44/N48 parts, not APU
Why that level specifically?
4070 Ti/Super is the "touch 4K by the fingertips" tier.
1080p/1440p, don't need 4k.
Because it's going to mainstream level. Look how AW2 RT kill RDNA2/3 cards, and alot people buying NV because DLSS/RT.
Persoanlly i don't care about RT and won't care until 2035

Looks how 4060 kill 7600. That why 4060 selling much more, than 7600
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branch_suggestion

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i'm talking about N44/N48 parts, not APU

1080p/1440p, don't need 4k.
Because it's going to mainstream level. Look how AW2 RT kill RDNA2/3 cards, and alot people buying NV because DLSS/RT.
Persoanlly i don't care about RT and won't care until 2035

Looks how 4060 kill 7600. That why 4060 selling much more, than 7600
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Every PT implementation so far is signed and delivered under the watch of NV's engineers.
And they have all sorts of very specific hardware blocks and other gimmicky nonsense to make performance somewhat acceptable.
Just ignore the horrible denoising artifacts and light ghosting.
 
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