Raptor vs Raid 0 vs SATA II

[sgrinavi]

Whenever I build machine I have always just purchased a decent drive, never the best, but something reliable. Last build I did a Raid 0 with a pair of SATA II drives -- it's been working well, but I added a raid 1 for my data just in case..... I never really had to wait on a drive, not that I know of anyhow.... yet..

I see so many people spending a ton of cash on Raptors and super fast/large drives. how much faster to you need to be than a seagate 7200.10? or a pair of them in RAID 0?

Where would you notice the speed increase? what am I missing?

 

[Ruptga]

Raptors are the posterchild of fast HDDs, but they are not necessarily the fastest. Some of the new high capacity drives beat them, in spite of their slower spindle speed (7200 vs 10k rpms) because of their data density, the head passes over more data because the data is really close together on the disk.

Anyway, more on topic, you're missing nothing by having raid 1 instead of 0. Raid 0's increases are in bandwidth, something HDDs already have plenty of for consumer use, at the expense of latency, HDDs perennial weakpoint. The extra bandwidth is really only useful in servers and for synthetic benchmarking.

SATA II is an interface spec, and reflects almost nothing about how well the drive will perform. Interfaces are always transitioned out of before they're nearly obsolete, and SATA is no different. Today, I think we're beginning to see HDDs that can take advantage of SATA's increase over PATA, but still, its main advantage is that SATA's cables are a lot easier to work with and don't ruin your case airflow.

 

[sgrinavi]

Thanks!

I suspected as much as I really do not see any difference in performance nor have I ever waited on drive to load a file, boot or even run a back-up.

SO, I guess there's no way to take down a raid0 that has my OS installed without reinstalling everything, is there? (I'm using the Intel Matrix Raid manager)

 

[Blain]

"Seeing" a difference using RAID 0 depends on how your storage is used.

Example: People feel cocky and buy 200MPH rated tires for their Geo Metro.
Then they say... "I don't see any difference".

 

[xitshsif]

Originally posted by: sgrinavi
SO, I guess there's no way to take down a raid0 that has my OS installed without reinstalling everything, is there? (I'm using the Intel Matrix Raid manager)

Reformat

 

[sgrinavi]

Originally posted by: Blain
"Seeing" a difference using RAID 0 depends on how your storage is used.

Example: People feel cocky and buy 200MPH rated tires for their Geo Metro.
Then they say... "I don't see any difference".

What is it that you are doing with your computer that makes the 10k drive noticeable?

 

[betasub]

Originally posted by: sgrinavi
What is it that you are doing with your computer that makes the 10k drive noticeable?

Booting?

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Raptor still wins hands down. In synthetic benchmarks it loses in like 1 or 2 fields but in all application tests it consistently wins by a good margin. This is interesting as the old GD raptors beat the 7200.8s in all fields but started losing in real world tests...

 

[bob4432]

remember the difference between quick and fast.....

 

[sgrinavi]

Originally posted by: betasub

Originally posted by: sgrinavi
What is it that you are doing with your computer that makes the 10k drive noticeable?

Booting?

That's about what I figured... I think for the cash I can wait an extra 10 seconds to boot..

a 150 GB Raptor is $190.. $1.25 per gig... A 160 segate sata II drive is about $50.. that's ~1/4 the price.. It scales from there, the 320 gb seagte can be had for .22 a gig.. I just purchased a new 250 from ebay for $46....

I don't dispute that the raptor is very fast and "wins" all the bench mark tests.. BUT.. What desktop app will utilize the increased performance that makes it worthwhile? Does it stream video faster? I don't think the disk is the limiting factor there.. Write DVDs faster.. again.. the disk is not the bottleneck. I don't run any big data base apps at home and the ones at work run on an app server which bottlenecks at the processors...

I have only hit a point where the virtual disk is holding me a few times; and that's my own stupidity for leaving too many apps open..

 

[LOUISSSSS]

I don't dispute that the raptor is very fast and "wins" all the bench mark tests.. BUT.. What desktop app will utilize the increased performance that makes it worthwhile? Does it stream video faster? I don't think the disk is the limiting factor there.. Write DVDs faster.. again.. the disk is not the bottleneck. I don't run any big data base apps at home and the ones at work run on an app server which bottlenecks at the processors...

as with any 'top of the line' product we're paying the premium for the best. the raptor will not only boot up your system significantly faster; it will shut down faster, search faster, cut/copy/paste files faster, open programs/files faster, change maps/servers faster and run spyware/virus scans faster.

now, take a few seconds to think how many of those operations do you do daily? if its none, then i guess the normal 160gb 8mb cache hdd will be good for you. if you want your overall system to be snappier invest in a single 74/150gb raptor.

it is a fact that the biggest bottleneck in any PC is the hard drive, the difference between a single raptor and a single 7200rpm hdd is significant for any user to feel and see a difference in the speed. enough for most of us to say to ourselves "i'm glad i have this ___gb Raptor, damn its fast" everytime we open up a program or boot up

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: sgrinavi

Originally posted by: Blain
"Seeing" a difference using RAID 0 depends on how your storage is used.

Example: People feel cocky and buy 200MPH rated tires for their Geo Metro.
Then they say... "I don't see any difference".

What is it that you are doing with your computer that makes the 10k drive noticeable?

You don't get what I'm trying to say about RAID 0.
Even though I have two Raptors, I said nothing at all about 10k RPM Raptors.

From your replies to others, it seems your mind is skewed in a certain direction.
What I say to that is...
"I suspected as much" and "That's about what I figured" :roll:

People start threads here all the time under the guise of "Which is better".
But in reality, they have a mindset that they want others to validate.

 

[sgrinavi]

Originally posted by: Blain

Originally posted by: sgrinavi

Originally posted by: Blain
"Seeing" a difference using RAID 0 depends on how your storage is used.

Example: People feel cocky and buy 200MPH rated tires for their Geo Metro.
Then they say... "I don't see any difference".

What is it that you are doing with your computer that makes the 10k drive noticeable?

You don't get what I'm trying to say about RAID 0.
Even though I have two Raptors, I said nothing at all about 10k RPM Raptors.

From your replies to others, it seems your mind is skewed in a certain direction.
What I say to that is...
"I suspected as much" and "That's about what I figured" :roll:

People start threads here all the time under the guise of "Which is better".
But in reality, they have a mindset that they want others to validate.

Where did that come from?

You did not respond to my question so I asked it a different way... which is why I keep asking it over again. So it's ok for some one to give a flip answer or a poor analogy? If I base an opinion on that inadequate answer the opinion is not valid?

I started this thread to see if there's a valid reason, besides bragging rights and saving 10% of my time for 10% of my tasks, to warrant 4x the cost for storage, is that OK with you?

 

[bob4432]

imho, quicker os/boot/app drive and then a larger 7.2k storage drive, keep pagefile on the storage drive and you will be good to go.

a computer is just all around snappier w/ a quicker hdd, so everything you do, you will feel the difference, the more hdd intensive tasks, the more benefit, but regardless there will be a difference.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: betasub

Originally posted by: sgrinavi
What is it that you are doing with your computer that makes the 10k drive noticeable?

Booting?

When masturbating while clicking between downloaded free 45 second internet porn clips I find the faster load speed helpful for continuity

 

[sgrinavi]

Originally posted by: Frackal

Originally posted by: betasub

Originally posted by: sgrinavi
What is it that you are doing with your computer that makes the 10k drive noticeable?

Booting?

When masturbating while clicking between downloaded free 45 second internet porn clips I find the faster load speed helpful for continuity

Finally.. a good reason

 

[LOUISSSSS]

Originally posted by: sgrinavi

What is it that you are doing with your computer that makes the 10k drive noticeable?

Spyware/Virus Scans?

 

[LOUISSSSS]

Originally posted by: sgrinavi

What is it that you are doing with your computer that makes the 10k drive noticeable?

Spyware/Virus Scans?



OP. what is the point of you making this thead if u seem to be so "Anti-Raptor". if u can wait the extra 30-45 seconds everytime u boot up then stay with those deathstars. if u can afford to wait the extra 5 minutes everytime for the virus scan then stay with those deathstars. if u want to be the last one to join the server everytime after a map change get another one :sun:

 

[CurseTheSky]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS

Originally posted by: sgrinavi

What is it that you are doing with your computer that makes the 10k drive noticeable?

Spyware/Virus Scans?



OP. what is the point of you making this thead if u seem to be so "Anti-Raptor". if u can wait the extra 30-45 seconds everytime u boot up then stay with those deathstars. if u can afford to wait the extra 5 minutes everytime for the virus scan then stay with those deathstars. if u want to be the last one to join the server everytime after a map change get another one :sun:

The map change one finally got me to realize what a Raptor is really all about. The first thing I did after booting, installing, and updating my latest system as join a game of Battlefield 2. On my older system (which wasn't old or outdated by any means), I was usually in the last half or third of total players to join the map. On the new system, I was either first, or very close. Now, due to motherboard failure, I'm back on my old motherboard / processor / memory. Even with the older hardware, I still see a huge benefit from the faster hard drive. It does make a noticeable difference.

 

[sgrinavi]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS

Originally posted by: sgrinavi

What is it that you are doing with your computer that makes the 10k drive noticeable?

Spyware/Virus Scans?

OP. what is the point of you making this thead if u seem to be so "Anti-Raptor". if u can wait the extra 30-45 seconds everytime u boot up then stay with those deathstars. if u can afford to wait the extra 5 minutes everytime for the virus scan then stay with those deathstars. if u want to be the last one to join the server everytime after a map change get
another one :sun:

I am not Anti-Raptor, I question the need to spend 4x on storage type A over storage type B because it appears to be 1.x faster on some synthetic bench marking software . This is not a personal attack on those that choose to buy fast disk drives because they like nice stuff. I do too, but It comes down to net-sum gain and where the best place to spend money might be.

I asked what I missing out on.. Looking for real-world, objective, information. If it's faster boots by a few seconds or a few minutes longer virus scan, when I'm not even using the system then I don't give a rats-butt. OTOH, if I can make more money because It speeds up my tasks then SURE.. it makes sense.. 10% faster on 10% of my tasks gives me a 1% gain in performance; on a $1000 project that's $10.. it will take a substantial amount of time to recoup the delta.

I don't really care for my Hitachi drives, but, 18 months ago the price was right and they STILL work well. As for boot... my HDD activity light is on for 25 seconds before I get a log-in screen and about 20 seconds after I put in my password.

 

[Blain]

If you are satisfied with medium performance, then don't get a Raptor or RAID any drives together.

I think your mathematical analysis on performance/price may hinder your growth as a "PC enthusiast".
But if you simply look at a PC as a tool to get a job done, stick with box builders like Dell and HP. They are far more cost effective than a "build your own" rig could be.

Nobody can decide how to spend your money for you. Only you can prioritize that.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: sgrinavi
OTOH, if I can make more money because It speeds up my tasks then SURE.. it makes sense.. 10% faster on 10% of my tasks gives me a 1% gain in performance; on a $1000 project that's $10.. it will take a substantial amount of time to recoup the delta.

what do you use your machine for? maybe if we knew that we could give you a more focused answer.

 

[sgrinavi]

Originally posted by: bob4432

Originally posted by: sgrinavi
OTOH, if I can make more money because It speeds up my tasks then SURE.. it makes sense.. 10% faster on 10% of my tasks gives me a 1% gain in performance; on a $1000 project that's $10.. it will take a substantial amount of time to recoup the delta.

what do you use your machine for? maybe if we knew that we could give you a more focused answer.

Hi and Thanks....

I use it for 3dsMAX modeling & Rendering, AutoCAD, Premier and Photoshop. I play games once in a while, but it is not even close to my top priority -- I use my systems as a tool, I like to tinker and can build a MUCH nicer system than I could ever hope to get from the DELLS of the world.... I do not buy computer parts just for the sake of having them, If I have free time I ride my four wheelers or dust off the harleys...

I have had and been building PCs for many years and understand the cost/benefit ratio of the primary components of the systems. I had a fast scsi drive array (which cost 3x what my entire system cost today) when I was running a 24 system SGI rendering farm and/or streaming video to and from the systems... but, now, I find the 7200 RPM drive do a pretty good job keeping up with my current demands. But rather than sit back and be satisfied with that I just wanted to be certain that I was not missing some aspect of having a new gen super fast drive in my primary system....

Apparantly that is not a good enough reason to ask a question around here....

 

[sgrinavi]

Originally posted by: Blain
If you are satisfied with medium performance, then don't get a Raptor or RAID any drives together.

I think your mathematical analysis on performance/price may hinder your growth as a "PC enthusiast".
But if you simply look at a PC as a tool to get a job done, stick with box builders like Dell and HP. They are far more cost effective than a "build your own" rig could be.

Nobody can decide how to spend your money for you. Only you can prioritize that.

I am not a PC enthusiast. I could care less about having the best, fastest, prettiest or newest system on the block . If my old XT got the job done I would still be using it....

Medium performance is a relative and subjective term. I am interested in objective, real-world, information to help me decide if I should be upgrading my storage.

Dell box cheaper? I wish... I just bought a Dell 390 WS for one of my CAD Ops, it has a q6600 6 GB of 667 ECC ram and a 320 GB SATA II drive. With an upgraded video card and our discount I spent over $2500 of the bosses cash (monitors not included) The system in my sig was FAR less than that and performs 20-25% better.... An equal system to mine from Dell is about $4000....

 

[bryanW1995]

raptors are great but man are they loud. I thought my 36gb unit was loud until I sat next to my buddy's 74 gb raptor the other day. Holy Crap! It almost drowned out his x1900 xfire fan!!! Ok, maybe that's an exaggeration, but it is definitely LOUD. Raptor's seem to be dropping very quickly in price, I'm interested to see a next gen 10k drive from WD or one of their competitors.