Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

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Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.
 
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pakotlar

Senior member
Aug 22, 2003
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Raptorlake improvements:
-Improved Intel 7 process with greater than 50mV reduction at the same frequency, 200MHz increase at the same voltage, and 600MHz increase in clocks at peak
-Machine learning prefetcher for the L3 allows INI caching scheme. INI = Inclusive/Non Inclusive, and it can switch between the two on the fly depending on the needs in 200us times. Was in Alderlake but didn't get used. Sounds like what Raichu was talking about regarding "secret sauce"? Though that was about Golden Cove.
-L2 cache in the E cores also use machine learning to improve prefetching. Performance improves from 2% in some circumstances to 16% in others.
-Fabric frequency increased by 900MHz to 5GHz. Apparently in leaks it said 4.6GHz with E cores active?
-The improvement with caching and prefetchers along with caches allow E cores to perform just like the original Skylake.

Quite an impressive change to uarch for 1 year. Intel may be getting its house in order.
 
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pakotlar

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Aug 22, 2003
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@nicalandia Caches are very power efficient and usually result in LOWER power at the chip level not the other way around.



The ideal is skipping Meteorlake on the high end and go straight to Arrowlake like some leakers have said to get 20A as quick as possible.

Agreed, as long as ArrowLake follows as closely as speculated. I doubt Raptor Lake will do well against Zen 5 in 2024.
 

nicalandia

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2019
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DDwWCUr.png


This is the result of a certain new I9, or maybe not and im lying.
That sounds about right with 13900K, perhaps you should post the entire picture, but we have seen that many times so it's Old News.

1664639339804.png

1664639575997.png
 
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tamz_msc

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Jan 5, 2017
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Although the 3dcenter effort is commendable and shows something similar to what techpowerup has in their performance summary, I like better the separate MT/ST indexes like this one :

View attachment 68526

7950X is around 52% faster in MT according to this index. Interestingly, Computer base has almost exactly the same difference (~50%) in their own MT benchmark suit:
View attachment 68527

So 1.5x vs 1.4-1.45x, the performance will be close but 7950X should still be faster vs 13900K stock vs stock in MT workloads (average).
ST and gaming is a bit trickier but I guess 13900K might be a percentage or so behind in ST and similarly a few percent ahead in gaming. Overall, it will be very close.

Not all applications are multithreaded and even then, the multithreaded scaling varies by application. So selectively focusing on just those applications that show good multithreaded scaling is nothing but cherrypicking.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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Quite an impressive change to uarch for 1 year. Intel may be getting its house in order.

Still too early to say. Raptorlake plans would have been set in stone years ago. It's not until Meteorlake part of the changes start to apply. I assume until then a good management just prevents things from getting worse.

Even Meteorlake should only have a partial effect from new management.

That's why I've always been confused about the resistance to the idea that this product exists. It makes complete economic sense. The only thing even remotely in question was whether Intel could build it.

They might as well go all the way.

4x 34 core MCC die Emerald Rapids-AP. Maybe 4x 24 core Emerald Rapids for regular chips?

:p
 
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Kaluan

Senior member
Jan 4, 2022
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So Far we have Geekbench and Sisoftware confirmed Intel's Claims about 65 Watt 13900K(Basically 13900 non-k) matching the 12900K in benchmarks.

View attachment 68553

View attachment 68554
13900 is not "13900K @ 65W" lol
Firstly because it has different clocks than 13900K
Secondly because it's not 65W at all (more like 202W or more, going by 12900), hell, expect most upper end to run it PL1=PL2 indefinitely, provided there is proper 200W+ cooling capable cooling on it of course. That's like saying the 12th i9K is scoring 27K in CineBench @ 125W lmao
And thirdly it's not an unlocked part. But this is more about forced SKU differentiation than "stock" behavior.

In essence, you are comparing a 8+16 202W+ Raptor Lake to a 8+8 241W Alder Lake. Which is still not too shabby as a upgrade efficiency-wise, but it's not the misleading garbage Intel is pushing in their slides/product specs. Which sadly I still see people fall for to this day.

Hell, stuff like 12700 and 12900 already did similar things vs the K versions. It's just a bit better now because of the Intel 7 tweaks and E core spam.
 

moinmoin

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Jun 1, 2017
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Anybody know if it's already confirmed that locked 13000 series chips will keep the locked IMC voltage for ADL/12000 series chips, or may we get an improvement back to the old state there?
 

Shivansps

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Sep 11, 2013
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It should be mostly unchanged. Rumors point to the same number of Execution Units, but running at a 3% to 6% higher clock speed. In other words, you won't probably notice the difference.
It looks faster to me.
Shadow of the tomb Raider dx11 at 1080p lowest gives 28 fps. 27 on ddr4. And with a oc to 2100mhz it jumps to 35fps. Thats more than a 3200g if i remember well.
 

Det0x

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Sep 11, 2014
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Posting here since currently its only Intel that can run high speed ddr5..
Wont be long until hynix a-die is dethroned as the fastest memory :)

The company then highlighted upcoming DRAM solutions such as 32Gb DDR5 DRAM, 8.5Gbps LPDDR5X DRAM and 36Gbps GDDR7 DRAM that will bring new capabilities to data center, HPC, mobile, gaming and automotive market segments.
 

trivik12

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Jan 26, 2006
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So RPL-U/p/H the major change is integrated DLVR. Hopefully that makes the chips more efficient. Performance of ADL-U/P was never an issue. I recently purchased a core i3 ADL-P laptop (for $350) and performance is very good.
 
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Geddagod

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Dec 28, 2021
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Still too early to say. Raptorlake plans would have been set in stone years ago. It's not until Meteorlake part of the changes start to apply. I assume until then a good management just prevents things from getting worse.

Even Meteorlake should only have a partial effect from new management.



They might as well go all the way.

4x 34 core MCC die Emerald Rapids-AP. Maybe 4x 24 core Emerald Rapids for regular chips?

:p
4x34 or 4x24 would be crazy, but didn't Intel themselves just call Emerald Rapids a minor upgrade, not really a major uplift.
4x24 would be 96 cores, just as much as zen 4 Genoa. IPC between raptor cove and zen 4 is pretty close as well. I still expect Intel to consume a lot more power though because of node diff
 

Kosusko

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Nov 10, 2019
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I don't speak Korean either. My understanding is that if you are rendering on screen then all 24 cores and 32 threads are involved. If you hide the rendering in the background tab, it renders only all 16c/16T "Raptormont" E-cores and 8C Raptor Cove P-cores are ready, e.g. to play the latest game.


"Raptormont" = Gracemont
 

nicalandia

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2019
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I don't speak Korean either. My understanding is that if you are rendering on screen then all 24 cores and 32 threads are involved. If you hide the rendering in the background tab, it renders only all 16c/16T "Raptormont" E-cores and 8C Raptor Cove P-cores are ready, e.g. to play the latest game.


"Raptormont" = Gracemont
Can you post pictures?

16C/16T Gracemont Cores rendering would be like having a last gen 8C/16T CPU or recent 6C/12T CPU.
 

Kosusko

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Nov 10, 2019
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Some may be drawn to the tech enthusiast by its hybrid composition of CPU cores and development that takes place at the level of OS planners (paradigm shift) - in contrast, the competitors' processors are boring backwaters.

Everyone is the master of happiness in their choice.
 
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Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
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Some may be drawn to the tech enthusiast by its hybrid composition of CPU cores and development that takes place at the level of OS planners (paradigm shift) - in contrast, the competitors' processors are boring backwaters.

Everyone is the master of happiness in their choice.
When BIG.little works the way it was intended, maybe I will be interested, but not the way it works now.
 
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