Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

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Hulk

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Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.
 
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eek2121

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eek2121

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Especially in the cases where the new SKU is just a rebranded old one.

Raptor Lake itself is a minor refresh.

I am interested to see a core to core latency chart. It seems like adding more ring stops will make things worse. Has intel had this many in a desktop chip before?
 

eek2121

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As per AT the 7600X loses in most of the important multithreaded benchmarks against the 12700K.

You are making the argument that the 7700x doesn't compete. Looking at those benchmarks for the 7600X, one can comfortably say you are wrong. The 7600X wins nearly all the gaming benchmarks and many of the others.

This is a bad spot for Intel to be in because of the specs of the 13700k.

EDIT: Just a small reminder that Raptor Lake is on the same node, and clock per clock, Gracemont has no IPC improvement, Raptor Cove has low single digit IPC improvements. Intel is bumping up the clocks and adding additional cores. There is very little in terms of power management improvements, instead Intel is going to try to sell 'unlimited' mode and other nonsense. Reviewers were giving AMD a hard time about the higher power limits but wait until Raptor Lake hits. Intel wants you to run your CPU at 350W. It is sad to me as a technology enthusiast that Intel cannot seem to correct the ship. Somehow, they ended up right back in "Pentium 4 mode" or "Pentium 3 1ghz" mode. They focus on pushing the silicon until it runs hot, consumes a ton of power, and runs fast rather than focusing on improving perf/watt every generation. A lot of folks think the 8 extra e-Cores will somehow make the chip magically more efficient, but it won't. The chip will likely be marginally more efficient than the 12900k, but it won't come close to the efficiency of the 5950x or even Zen 4.

Maybe next year Meteor Lake will turn things around.
 
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tamz_msc

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But it's pretty good at gaming, right up there with the best of em...! even with DDR5 6400 RAM the little 7600X beats the 12700K
AT gaming benchmarks are a joke. Everybody here knows it. But that was not your original point. Your original point was that the 12700K is beaten by the 7600X as per AT. You know it to be false.
 

tamz_msc

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You are making the argument that the 7700x doesn't compete. Looking at those benchmarks for the 7600X, one can comfortably say you are wrong. The 7600X wins nearly all the gaming benchmarks and many of the others.

This is a bad spot for Intel to be in because of the specs of the 13700k.
Yes it - the 7700X - competes with the 12700K at $399. I would not give much credence to AT's gaming benchmarks. And no, the 7600X does not beat the 12700K in productivity.
 

coercitiv

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I am interested to see a core to core latency chart. It seems like adding more ring stops will make things worse. Has intel had this many in a desktop chip before?
I'm interested too, but AFAIK Raptor Lake can now sustain higher ring bus speeds when E-cores are enabled, which should help alleviate part of the problem. Further fine-tuning is also on the table. So far we only have this leak from Raichu regarding improved inter-core latency. Looks like good news.

One thing to note about the ring bus: it is no longer the old design from the Skylake era. Intel updated the ring bus with Tiger Lake, and used it in ADL as well. Following quotes are from Anandtech reviews:
It is worth noting that the Tiger Lake SoC has doubled up to support a dual-ring bi-directional interconnect which allows for 2x32 B/cycle in either direction. This helps the memory controllers to feed the cores as well as the graphics, so we should see some uplift in performance on memory-limited scenarios. One question to ask Intel is why have they gone for a dual ring design, rather than simply making a single ring double-wide – the answer is likely related to sleep state power, if one ring can be put to sleep as required. The trade off to that would be related to control and die area, however.
The Alder Lake processor retains the dual-bandwidth ring we saw implemented in Tiger Lake, enabling 1000 GB/s of bandwidth. We learned from asking Intel in our Q&A that this ring is fully enabled regardless of whether the P-cores or E-cores are being used – Intel can disable one of the two rings when less bandwidth is needed, which would save power, however based on previous testing this single ring could end up drawing substantial power compared to the E-cores in low power operation. (This may be true in the mobile processors as well, which would have knock on effects for mobile battery life.)
 

tamz_msc

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Photoshop lawyers will invite you to their office. Prepare your credit card, and just be brave. :grinning:

View attachment 68225
Good. Now look at Premiere Pro. We can play the cherry-picking game all day.
7700X vs 12700K (average perf,)

ST : 7700X is 8% faster
MT: 7700X is about equal (1% faster than intel part)
Gaming: 7700X is 9% faster

It's clear that CPU wise, 7700X is the superior part. The problem is the platform cost and this should be improved with mid tier boards launching next month
With default memory speeds. Watch the 12700K close that gap with any decent XMP kit.
 
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Asterox

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Good. Now look at Premiere Pro. We can play the cherry-picking game all day.

It is not red, if you look at details and why there is such a difference at Premiere Pro.

Photoshop is CPU only test, or Singlethread test and it just shows you the stronger side of Zen 4 progress.

"Premiere Pro is unfortunately one of the worst applications we tested for AMD, as they struggle to keep up with the Intel Core 12th Gen processors. This doesn't mean that AMD Ryzen 7000 processors are always a bad choice for Premiere Pro, but rather that you have to be aware of the strengths and weaknesses of Ryzen and plan accordingly.

The main issue is that many Intel Core processors (specifically those that have an iGPU) include a technology called Quick Sync that can be used for hardware decoding and encoding of H.264 and HEVC codecs. In the case of Premiere Pro, Quick Sync tends to give higher performance than using the GPU for decoding, but it also allows for a wider range of codecs to be used. In fact, the performance is so much higher that it tends to skew the Overall Score in our benchmark, and we are likely going to have to adjust how we calculate the scoring in future versions to weight the results more evenly across various codec types".


 
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Carfax83

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7700X vs 12700K (average perf,)

ST : 7700X is 8% faster
MT: 7700X is about equal (1% faster than intel part)
Gaming: 7700X is 9% faster

It's clear that CPU wise, 7700X is the superior part. The problem is the platform cost and this should be improved with mid tier boards launching next month

The 7700x has significantly higher boost clocks than the 12700K remember. Alder Lake has an IPC advantage, which Raptor Lake will inherit and improve upon with more cache in addition to higher clock speeds and double the efficiency cores.

Raptor Lake 13600K and 13700K is going to trounce their equivalent Zen 4 parts in gaming and productivity.
 

inf64

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The 7700x has significantly higher boost clocks than the 12700K remember. Alder Lake has an IPC advantage, which Raptor Lake will inherit and improve upon with more cache in addition to higher clock speeds and double the efficiency cores.

Raptor Lake 13600K and 13700K is going to trounce their equivalent Zen 4 parts in gaming and productivity.

What are the gaming and productivity equivalent Zen 4 parts to 13600K and 13700K?

13600K will be about equal to 7700X in productivity, and lose the ST and gaming (easily).

13700K should win against 7700X in productivity but lose in ST and tie it in gaming. Also, 13700K will lose in about everything against 7900X (which beats 12900K in about everything).