Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.

 

[Just Benching]

Why is CPU-Z ST not showing any IPC gains on Raptor Lake?(Also no IPC was found on Zen4 from Zen3)

View attachment 67116

Cause there isn't any, maybe 1-2%, margin of error stuff.

 

[nicalandia]

Cause there isn't any, maybe 1-2%, margin of error stuff.

Nah, its just CPU-Z being buggy or something. Raptor Lake will bring single digit IPC across the range of Apps(5-9%)

 

[Hulk]

So what are the chances I'll be able to swap my 12700K for a 13900K in my rig below?

 

[Rigg]

So what are the chances I'll be able to swap my 12700K for a 13900K in my rig below?

It's hard to say until we know 100% what the final power limits are. The VRM on that motherboard might struggle in heavy loads. It's going to be hard on that fan-less PSU in that scenario as well. At the very least , the PSU probably won't be running in it's sweet spot for efficiency.

 

[nicalandia]

So what are the chances I'll be able to swap my 12700K for a 13900K in my rig below?

100% Chance. Start at 120 Watts limit and see how high you can go.

 

[Hulk]

100% Chance. Start at 120 Watts limit and see how high you can go.

I've been running at 170W currently so I know I can go at least that high.

 

[Markfw]

100% Chance. Start at 120 Watts limit and see how high you can go.

I would also use a kill-a-watt to be sure you stop before the PSU implodes. Make sure you are drawing less than like 400w for a 450 watt PSU. Otherwise you find out the hard way when the PSU fails.

 

[nicalandia]

I've been running at 170W currently so I know I can go at least that high.

Yeah a 170W 13900K will be an upgrade to a stock 12700K

 

[tamz_msc]

That CS-GO game which seems to be a tie between the High End Gaming CPU(5800XD, 12900K/KS) seems to like Zen4 more than any other uArch.

CS:GO is faster on Alder Lake. It doesn't benefit from V-cache at all.

Spoiler

 

[Kosusko]

5.5 Ghz 13900K vs 4.9 Ghz 12900K. +600 Mhz

AL - Gracemont = 1c - 4c = 3.9GHz (all 8c 3.7GHz) => RL - "Raptormont" all 8c 4.3GHz + 600MHz and + 2MB L2 cache to quadcore cluster.

The name Raptormont does not exist, it is of course Gracemont, but with the +600MHz and +2MB L2 cache per quadcore cluster, I like the name better.

 

[Det0x]

Another Intel Core i9-13900K “Raptor Lake” CPU gets tested ahead of October launch

The CPU was tested on MSI Z690 GODLIKE motherboards and compared with Core i9-12900K CPU. The system was equipped with Colorful Gamer RGB DDR5-4800 and GeForce RTX 3090 GPU. EJ used Phanteks Glacier One 360 MP solution featuring Asetek AIO cooler. Their mini-review is focusing on comparison between 16-core i9-12900K Alder Lake and 24-core i9-13900K Raptor Lake CPUs.

In Prime95, Raptor Lake running all cores at 5.2 GHz saturates at 378W and 85°C. Judging from the video, this appears to be the Maximum Turbo Boost limit set to 440W.


The sample was then tested in most popular CPU test: CPU-Z and Cinebench. Intel 13th Gen CPU is a clear winner here in all tests. The performance appears to match what was already shared.









This sample is clearly not optimized for gaming, though. The performance is all over the price for some titles tested at 1080p resolution. In some cases, Raptor Lake is indeed faster, but there are instances where it is totally opposite. In fact, even with the Performance unlocked to 5.5 GHz, the CPU ends up slower than 5.2 GHz.




Numbers pretty much as expected, but it seems like even an elevated powerlimit wont be enough to save raptor lake against zen4 this time..

 

[Just Benching]

Numbers pretty much as expected, but it seems like even an elevated powerlimit wont be enough to save raptor lake against zen4 this time..

I'm fairly confident 13600k and 13700k will wipe the floor with the 7600x and the 7700x. Unless you don't count those as raptor lake.

 

[biostud]

I'm fairly confident 13600k and 13700k will wipe the floor with the 7600x and the 7700x. Unless you don't count those as raptor lake.

By "wipe the floor" can you give performance advantages in percent? (your best guess)

How about 13700k vs 7900X?

Or your predictions of a 7800X3D?

 

[Abwx]

I'm fairly confident 13600k and 13700k will wipe the floor with the 7600x and the 7700x. Unless you don't count those as raptor lake.

They ll wipe nothing, 13700K is second in Intel s list, it will have to face a 7900X that should be 35-45% faster than a 5900X...

Only one that has some chance is the 13600K because its 8 + 4 configuration has no direct equivalent within AMD s portfolio, all other SKUS are in for a rude battle.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Who cares who wipes who? Both won't be horrible. Only Zen 4 will have AVX-512 and RPL may leverage DDR5-7000+ for bandwidth intensive applications. But Zen 4 is an MT beast so it should be fun to see if there is any MT benchmark where Zen 4 concedes to RPL due to DDR5-7000+.

 

[Asterox]

Another Intel Core i9-13900K “Raptor Lake” CPU gets tested ahead of October launch
The CPU was tested on MSI Z690 GODLIKE motherboards and compared with Core i9-12900K CPU. The system was equipped with Colorful Gamer RGB DDR5-4800 and GeForce RTX 3090 GPU. EJ used Phanteks Glacier One 360 MP solution featuring Asetek AIO cooler. Their mini-review is focusing on comparison between 16-core i9-12900K Alder Lake and 24-core i9-13900K Raptor Lake CPUs.
In Prime95, Raptor Lake running all cores at 5.2 GHz saturates at 378W and 85°C. Judging from the video, this appears to be the Maximum Turbo Boost limit set to 440W.
View attachment 67128

The sample was then tested in most popular CPU test: CPU-Z and Cinebench. Intel 13th Gen CPU is a clear winner here in all tests. The performance appears to match what was already shared.
View attachment 67129
View attachment 67130

View attachment 67131

View attachment 67132

View attachment 67133

This sample is clearly not optimized for gaming, though. The performance is all over the price for some titles tested at 1080p resolution. In some cases, Raptor Lake is indeed faster, but there are instances where it is totally opposite. In fact, even with the Performance unlocked to 5.5 GHz, the CPU ends up slower than 5.2 GHz.

View attachment 67134
View attachment 67135

Numbers pretty much as expected, but it seems like even an elevated powerlimit wont be enough to save raptor lake against zen4 this time..

Brute force, there are no other options or metal to the pedal of power

 

[coercitiv]

I think Intel and AMD may end up pricing their products in a way that makes direct comparisons difficult. More exactly I'm considering the following scenario:

• 7600X $300
• 13600K $300-350
• 7700X $400
• 13700K $450-500
• 7900X $550
• 13900K $600-650
• 7950X $700

No need to linger on exact Intel pricing, rather just look at how much wiggle room they have. Unless Intel is willing to go into a price war from day 1, there's a considerable chance that each company will focus on their product strengths and try out the waters first, see if the fish takes the bait. There's plenty of time for price corrections before the holiday season, and there's clearly an adjustment coming early 2023. (locked Raptor parts & V-cache Ryzen will definitely stir up the waters).

Even on this forum I expect we'll be talking past each other a lot, those with honest discourse included

 

[Just Benching]

By "wipe the floor" can you give performance advantages in percent? (your best guess)

How about 13700k vs 7900X?

Or your predictions of a 7800X3D?

Sure, I expect the 13600k to be at least 50% faster than the 7600x in MT workloads like CBR23.

The 13700k is basically a 12900k on steroids, and that should also be around 50% faster than the 7700x.

The 3d is only good for gaming (and even there, it depends on the game).I don't think it will bring any meaningful improvements in other workloadds

 

[Just Benching]

They ll wipe nothing, 13700K is second in Intel s list, it will have to face a 7900X that should be 35-45% faster than a 5900X...

Only one that has some chance is the 13600K because its 8 + 4 configuration has no direct equivalent within AMD s portfolio, all other SKUS are in for a rude battle.

The 7900x is supposedly more expensive than the 13700k. Assuming a best case scenario of 50% improvement over the 5900x, it should match the 13700k in MT but it will be priced higher. Assuming the worst case of 35% you mentioned, it will definitely lose to the 13700k, while being more expensive. So...


Also there is the 13900t, which will without a doubt be the most efficient cpu out of the box


Btw the 13600k is not 8+4, its 6+8

 

[dark zero]

Another Intel Core i9-13900K “Raptor Lake” CPU gets tested ahead of October launch

The CPU was tested on MSI Z690 GODLIKE motherboards and compared with Core i9-12900K CPU. The system was equipped with Colorful Gamer RGB DDR5-4800 and GeForce RTX 3090 GPU. EJ used Phanteks Glacier One 360 MP solution featuring Asetek AIO cooler. Their mini-review is focusing on comparison between 16-core i9-12900K Alder Lake and 24-core i9-13900K Raptor Lake CPUs.

In Prime95, Raptor Lake running all cores at 5.2 GHz saturates at 378W and 85°C. Judging from the video, this appears to be the Maximum Turbo Boost limit set to 440W.
View attachment 67128

The sample was then tested in most popular CPU test: CPU-Z and Cinebench. Intel 13th Gen CPU is a clear winner here in all tests. The performance appears to match what was already shared.
View attachment 67129
View attachment 67130

View attachment 67131

View attachment 67132

View attachment 67133

This sample is clearly not optimized for gaming, though. The performance is all over the price for some titles tested at 1080p resolution. In some cases, Raptor Lake is indeed faster, but there are instances where it is totally opposite. In fact, even with the Performance unlocked to 5.5 GHz, the CPU ends up slower than 5.2 GHz.

View attachment 67134
View attachment 67135

Numbers pretty much as expected, but it seems like even an elevated powerlimit wont be enough to save raptor lake against zen4 this time..

Look at the temperatures. Are insanely high And despite it is not touching the limit, it might affect the performance in long term.

 

[Abwx]

The 7900x is supposedly more expensive than the 13700k. Assuming a best case scenario of 50% improvement over the 5900x, it should match the 13700k in MT but it will be priced higher. Assuming the worst case of 35% you mentioned, it will definitely lose to the 13700k, while being more expensive. So...


Also there is the 13900t, which will without a doubt be the most efficient cpu out of the box


Btw the 13600k is not 8+4, its 6+8

The 13700K will be no match for the 7900X, with 35% better perf it would score 29700 in CB R23 (12900K is around 27200 pts), so let alone if it s 45% better perf over the 5900X.

If the 13600K is 6 + 4 then it will hardly compete against a 7700X, 4 e cores wont be enough to match 2 highly clocked Zen 4 cores.

 

[Just Benching]

• 7600X $300
• 13600K $300-350
• 7700X $400
• 13700K $450-500
• 7900X $550
• 13900K $600-650
• 7950X $700

The problem is , even in the extreme scenario that the 13600k price matches the 7700x (which is highly unlikely but still), I don't see amd having a compelling product. Realistically, the user that opts for the 7700x over the 7600x cares about MT performance and longevity, so he would be better off with the 13600k that offers more of both.

Only the 7950x and maybe the 7900x are positioned properly, the rest of the lineup is highway robbery.

 

[Just Benching]

The 13700K will be no match for the 7900X, with 35% better perf it would score 29700 in CB R23 (12900K is around 27200 pts), so let alone if it s 45% better perf over the 5900X.

If the 13600K is 6 + 4 then it will hardly compete against a 7700X, 4 e cores wont be enough to match 2 highly clocked Zen 4 cores.

Yes but the 7900x isn't going to compete with the 12900k but with the 13700k, which has way higher clocks on both P and E cores. The p cores are clocked 10% higher and the ecores more than 20%. The 13700k will most likely be in the 30k ballpark on CBR23. And it is actually cheaper than the 7900x.

The 13600k is 6+8, I already told you that. It will without a doubt be faster than the 7700x (and cheaper). The ecores alone should be hitting 9-10k score, and the 6 P cores at those clocks should be around 15k.

 

[tamz_msc]

Look at the temperatures. Are insanely high And despite it is not touching the limit, it might affect the performance in long term.

What? That is cooler than what the 7950X is rumored to be running at - 85-91 degrees in p95 with a manual OC of all things is very impressive.

I'd like to see how Zen 4 does in p95 small fft with AVX-512 enabled - the 7950X saturates 230 W PPT in Cinebench R23 itself.

 

[Just Benching]

What? That is cooler than what the 7950X is rumored to be running at - 85-91 degrees in p95 with a manual OC of all things is very impressive.

I'd like to see how Zen 4 does in p95 small fft with AVX-512 enabled - the 7950X saturates 230 W PPT in Cinebench R23 itself.

Well the questionis, why would you run p95 at 230w? :O