Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

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Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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Nobody was ever limited by firmware with a K CPU and a Z board, that's the whole reason of this conversation.

Yet you just claimed that overclocking guides encouraged people to update their BIOS/UEFI to remove power limits . . . ?

PL2 isn't a firmware limit, it's a warranty limit.

One that Intel's own CPUs and platforms refuses to enforce. I'm sure Intel users would be thrilled to hear that their brand new Raptor Lake is out of warranty the instant they boot it without modifying anything in the UEFI or using XTU.
 
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Pneumothorax

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2002
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I was merely passing along the bit of info that I stumbled upon. Ah, dug a bit more and found your exact issue, it appears you need to update the Intel ME firmware & driver.

Here's a thread on the issue - https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthre...103-from-with-13900k-no-nvme-drivers-detected
Here's the resource page you need for firmware/driver - https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?131027-RaptorLake-Resources

Take it slow, read the threads. Good luck!
You da man! Works great now. Didn't know there was another bios within the motherboard with this Intel ME crap. Now I need to return the Z790 and DDR5 combo I just bought from Newegg.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
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Equal pricing is the one that matters to consumers though. Equalized threads is more of an abstract comparison of questionable utility.

In a general sense you're correct, but if you have some software that doesn't scale beyond 16 threads or your license fees are based on core count (more typical in the server space than the consumer market) then suddenly those other comparisons become a lot more important.

Even if the comparison is academic for most people here, the comparison itself should still make some kind of logical sense.
 

ondma

Diamond Member
Mar 18, 2018
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Because it makes sense to buy am4 over am5 and 13th gen. DDr5 is expensive no matter what. You can use a ddr4 board but you are leaving performance on the table. It's why i said that rpl may suffer from the same faith that alder had. Poor sales even if it is the better product by a mile.
Yea, but with either AL or RL with DDR4 you are still getting better performance that am4, especially in gaming.
 

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
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Yea, but with either AL or RL with DDR4 you are still getting better performance that am4, especially in gaming.
This only makes sense if you're not already on am4. To buy into al/rl now is a cost too great. If amd cadence picks up to how it used to be we might see z5 in before q3 24. The latest intel news is making me thing they'll do a late q3 launch of their next product. Am5 is fine if you've got money to burn and need that power. Dare i be contrarian and say it hinges on z5 being good and blowing past intel's next chip, otherwise they may be slower or the same. Processor and board prices must come down. z890 will be about 85% expensive as am5 given the complexities on a 2 year life cycle vs 3-4.
 
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A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
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That is AMD-s plan, and by logic it is only problem from Intel point of view.AMD sells Zen 3 processors, unless something has changed in the meantime.

AM5 has been active for a little over a month, or he didn't even get his shoes dirty yet.

Raptor Lake lounch, or that business week Mindfactory sold 1020 red ones.


This week sales, but the business week is not over yet. :mask:

Yes that was what I was saying. Do you write for notebookcheck? I read their site religiously and saw an article about this in the early am. If this keeps up through the next 8 weeks of the holiday period then I don't see either zen 4 or raptor lake making great sales strides. The 13900K is will be getting a ks model but it is to be seen what zen 4 will get. Only the one model or all models getting a x3d version taking over the current msrps while the current parts drop down in msrp. Can amd afford such a move and if they can will it spell sales doom for intel. x3d won't help in all games and doesn't do much in non game work loads but it would make it more tantalizing to go with amd especially if the partner board prices drop. my 2c

AMD has a big fight against it when it comes to arrow lake and even @Geddagod would agree with me on that. Arrow gets lion cove big cores with crestmont small cores. Lunar uses the same core designs with added cores.Arrow allegedly uses TSMC3 with an 8+32 structure and will share node parity with AMD at the same foundry.

Arrow will come at a time when the recession is winding down and inflation will be back to normal. Prime period for consumer driven purchasing of new computers and hardware. Zen 5 may come 1-2 quarters earlier but will suffer from the tail end of the recession, but will have a lead over Intel. Great times to be a consumer.
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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@A/// Arrowlake is rumored to be TSMC N3 and Intel 20A. Also it has a Lion Cove + Skymont core config. Crestmont is in Meteorlake.

Lunar Lake is said to be a low power-only product.
 

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
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@A/// Arrowlake is rumored to be TSMC N3 and Intel 20A. Also it has a Lion Cove + Skymont core config. Crestmont is in Meteorlake.

Lunar Lake is said to be a low power-only product.
Woops you're right. I misread my notes. Arrowlake desktop is @ tsmc. That's more important when discussing zen 5. Wasn't meteor a lower volume or lower power product too? There's a 1+ year gap between arrow and nova. Pcie6 will be available by then and ddr6 rolls around in 2029.
 
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Thunder 57

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Aug 19, 2007
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Yes that was what I was saying. Do you write for notebookcheck? I read their site religiously and saw an article about this in the early am. If this keeps up through the next 8 weeks of the holiday period then I don't see either zen 4 or raptor lake making great sales strides. The 13900K is will be getting a ks model but it is to be seen what zen 4 will get. Only the one model or all models getting a x3d version taking over the current msrps while the current parts drop down in msrp. Can amd afford such a move and if they can will it spell sales doom for intel. x3d won't help in all games and doesn't do much in non game work loads but it would make it more tantalizing to go with amd especially if the partner board prices drop. my 2c

AMD has a big fight against it when it comes to arrow lake and even @Geddagod would agree with me on that. Arrow gets lion cove big cores with crestmont small cores. Lunar uses the same core designs with added cores.Arrow allegedly uses TSMC3 with an 8+32 structure and will share node parity with AMD at the same foundry.

Arrow will come at a time when the recession is winding down and inflation will be back to normal. Prime period for consumer driven purchasing of new computers and hardware. Zen 5 may come 1-2 quarters earlier but will suffer from the tail end of the recession, but will have a lead over Intel. Great times to be a consumer.

If you already know when the recession and inflation are going to back to normal, than why can't you tell us about Arrow lake performance as well?
 

A///

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2017
4,351
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If you already know when the recession and inflation are going to back to normal, than why can't you tell us about Arrow lake performance as well?
You should read economic outlooks and realize we'd entered a recession before countries announced it. They don't last more than a few years. Unless you've been asleep the last few years we've been in economical free fall since march '20.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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@Hulk is this using the default AC/DC Loadline setting on the mobo, or have you used the minimum setting in the UEFI to get "baseline" readings for the CPU VID?

Either of them is great, but it helps to know if this is the stock for your board or more of an attempt to get the baseline values.
 
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Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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@Hulk is this using the default AC/DC Loadline setting on the mobo, or have you used the minimum setting in the UEFI to get "baseline" readings for the CPU VID?

Either of them is great, but it helps to know if this is the stock for your board or more of an attempt to get the baseline values.

This data is taken from HWinfo during a CB R23 MT run with only the P cores enabled in the BIOS. This is the average reading during the run.

So no, this is not the CPU VID. Getting the VID from the BIOS as programmed into the CPU requires a reboot for every VID check AFAIK unless there is an easier method.

I used Windows Power Plan "max CPU setting" (enabled setting to appear through registry edit) to set the CPU frequency for each run. BTW, that feature only works with E cores disabled at least on my mobo.
 

Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,525
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Here is some data on my 13900K. I have some ideas but I'm not sure about the following?
1. Why is the CoreVID from the BIOS lower for 8P as compared to 2P? I'm thinking as the core count increases core which require more voltage is the cause.
2. Why is the actual Core voltage as reported by HWinfo lower than the BIOS data? Here I'm thinking the BIOS voltage is the target and the result is some sort of Vdroop?

1667311296204.png
 
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lobz

Platinum Member
Feb 10, 2017
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People buy and do all sorts of stupid and dangerous things.

Companies should be more responsible and not sell the product at a ridiculous and dangerous setting just to be able to top the charts.

View attachment 69942

I quickly cut the irrelevant low power part of the table off. Even at 250W it performs as high as 7950X. I will run my CPU capped at 180W, that is what my air cooler can handle. I am now playing with 13600K and 13700K, not sure which one I will keep.
Straight up lie 😉