Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

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Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.
 
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Hulk

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So no Reviewers have tested the IPC of the Raptormont Cores? They have faster ring and Twice Cache$ per cluster.

Edit.
Never Mind The Hentai Loving OneRaichu Did test that long ago.. Average is 6% IPC(at ISO Speed) over OG Gracemont Cores, which is rather impressive performance boost if you add the 10% speed boost the combined performance boost is 16% at stock.

View attachment 69668

These results correlate pretty well with my Raptor Cove> Golden Cove IPC of +4.7% and Raptor Gracemont>Alder Gracemont IPC of +5.3%. Nice improvement for simply increase L2 size and main memory subsytem speed.
 

Wolverine2349

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Oct 9, 2022
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Intel's P cores are a lot bigger than AMDs. That's why they stop at 8.


Yeah which means they cannot add as many as AMD does. But they could add 2 more and sell that chip in addition to the e-core variants.

One of the Intel reps stated that only 6-8 P cores are the target market and they just add e-cores for multi threading and that their workstation and HEDT lines are for those who need more P-cores.

Well where is their workstation line?? It was supposed to have been out almost a year ago like now and pushed back to 2023 to who knows when??

And even that has a mesh arch and no ring so bad latency for gaming. Yes games do not have any benefit from more than 8 cores yet, but still some do not want hybrid arch and want more than 8 P cores and also do gaming.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
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HEDT lines are for those who need more P-cores.

Intel hasn't offically said anything about HEDT.
They are dumping the entire HEDT brand i think and going full workstation, which is a total bummer.

Workstation CPU's are expensive, always have been.

I know i am sounding like a broken record playing a tiny violin, but i really hope HEDT does not die out, as i really need those PCI-E lanes which neither 13000 series or 7000 series can provide enough of for my usage.
 

poke01

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Mar 8, 2022
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Maybe but 1 for 1 they are almost equal in performance.
I always said AMD's core design was better. AMD and Apple have around the same size P cores. That is why AMD and Apple have P cores that are more than 8 ie 7950X and M1 Ultra.

Intel cannot do 16 P cores yet maybe when Arrow lake and later.
 
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TheELF

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Except it's not really 253W is it?
Particularly in the reviews that tested on Z790s, the socket load power is more like ~300W. As many outlets have mentioned, the default is basically unlocked usually. Intel managed to destroy both their own meaning of Tau boosting and PL2 values within 1 year. After a long history of both Intel and it's partners already playing a very loose defintions game of what stock is, with stuff like MCE and infinite boost periods.

Unless someone wants to tell me both 13700K/F and 13900K/F consume exactly the same amount of power at "stock" load cause of 253W PL2 with a straight face lol
Intel clearly states the maximum numbers for their CPUs.
If you watch or read reviews that get 300W and don't make it very very clear that they are voiding the CPU warranty then why are you even watching them or giving them any credit?! You are following reviewers that are full on clickbaiting by using a specific mobo so that they can photoshop flames and deserts into their youtube screenshots...


And also as I showed before 1 out of 10 is NOT THE DEFAULT.
zfIQvko.jpg
 

coercitiv

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Jan 24, 2014
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PSA: Some Intel BIOS updates are nasty, bricking the NVME slot attached to the CPU.

CAUTION: Gigabyte has released BIOS version F3a for its motherboards with Z790 chipset. I did the update for the Z790 AORUS Elite AX and now the same phenomenon as on the ROG Z690 Hero from ASUS. The NVMe SSD in the M.2 slot attached to the CPU no longer works.

You have to put it in a slot that is attached to the chipset to get it to work again. M2_1 seams to be dead. My guess is that Gigabyte is distributing the same version of the ME here as ASUS did and which is causing the problems.
 

coercitiv

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Jan 24, 2014
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And also as I showed before 1 out of 10 is NOT THE DEFAULT.
zfIQvko.jpg

You mean 3 out of 10: the MSI board has no power limit, the Asus board has a 200W limit and the cheap Asrock board is running the CPU bellow spec @ 65W because it's that weak. If anything this B660 lineup shows mobo makers don't care about Intel specs, they push the power limits as high as the VRM stage allows them to.
 

Accord99

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I always said AMD's core design was better. AMD and Apple have around the same size P cores. That is why AMD and Apple have P cores that are more than 8 ie 7950X and M1 Ultra.
AMD and Apple have more than 8 P-processors using a MCM approach, which Intel has so far not wanted or unable to do so for the consumer market. To use the old AMD term, neither has a CCX with more than 8 P-processors.
 
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poke01

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AMD and Apple have more than 8 P-processors using a MCM approach, which Intel has so far not wanted or unable to do so for the consumer market. To use the old AMD term, neither has a CCX with more than 8 P-processors.
MCM / chiplets is coming to Intel in the form of MTL/Meteor Lake next year and still the P core is limited to 8.

But Intel 'tiles' are for a different purpose.
 

nicalandia

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Wolverine2349

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Is there a workload where that works better?

Benchmarks favor the 13600k over the 12700K. You are also getting tweaked performance cores with more L2, in 13th Gen K parts.


For any games that potentially scale beyond 8 cores if there are nay, for sure with 2 extra P cores. Though I do not know of any games that do. Though for running background tasks and streaming 2 extra P cores way way way better than more e-cores. Nevermind the no need to deal with the WIN11 and hybrid arch crap and Intel Thread director gimmicks.

Spamming more e-cores only is a bit better for productivity tasks that scale to infinite threads.
 

DrMrLordX

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I think he was just speaking generically given the second sentence:

Maybe. But it's a bit confusing since the -k parts have updated ring speed, cache, etc. The non-k 13600 is an inferior product (not speaking wrt price; per Anand, there are no bad products, just bad prices). It's hard to lump both the 13600 and 13600k into the same example.
 

Heartbreaker

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For any games that potentially scale beyond 8 cores if there are nay, for sure with 2 extra P cores. Though I do not know of any games that do. Though for running background tasks and streaming 2 extra P cores way way way better than more e-cores. Nevermind the no need to deal with the WIN11 and hybrid arch crap and Intel Thread director gimmicks.

Spamming more e-cores only is a bit better for productivity tasks that scale to infinite threads.

Anything beyond empty theory crafting? Because the gaming results clearly favored the 13600K over the 12700K.

Also you still have to deal with thread allocation issues between P and E cores because both chips still have them.
 

Hulk

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Oct 9, 1999
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Intel hasn't offically said anything about HEDT.
They are dumping the entire HEDT brand i think and going full workstation, which is a total bummer.

Workstation CPU's are expensive, always have been.

I know i am sounding like a broken record playing a tiny violin, but i really hope HEDT does not die out, as i really need those PCI-E lanes which neither 13000 series or 7000 series can provide enough of for my usage.

I'm not totally sure I really understand the main things differentiating desktop, HEDT, and workstation other than more cores/compute available? Can you give me the really quick points that differentiate them? Also I'm curious as to what you are doing that saturates your PCI-E lanes. To be fully clear, I am not in any way doubting you it's just something I'd like to be brought up to speed on by someone who knows.
 

Wolverine2349

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Anything beyond empty theory crafting? Because the gaming results clearly favored the 13600K over the 12700K.

Also you still have to deal with thread allocation issues between P and E cores because both chips still have them.


Thats because very few games benefit from more than 6 cores. And the 13600K has equal L3 cache to 12700K and its 6 P cores are faster and have more L2 cache than 12700K. So of course it is better just like the 5600X is better than the 10700K and 9900K despite having 2 less cores.

Your right games do not benefit from more than 6 cores much less 8, but some rare games may benefit form 8.

The e-cores do nothing for gaming though, Not a thing and are e-waste for any gaming loads.

Best would be then for Intel to create an 8 P core only Raptor Lake with 72MB or 108MB L3 cache and sell it as 3D cache gaming chip like AMD has 5800X3D as games love L3 cache and clock speed and IPC with 6 cores or sometimes 8.

And yeah thread allocation between P and e cores. Well disable the e-cores and problem solved and you have yourself the most powerful 7 and 8 core gaming chips in existence and will be even better not being held back by the e-waste cores. Even with e-waste cores on, they still are the best gaming chips as long as no game threads do not get stuck on one of those peasant cores which in the benchmarks I imagine they do not. But still they hold back P core clocks and ring a little bit and use more power so they still should be disabled for gaming.
 
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ondma

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Basically, make it a 7950X.
Hah, hah. Will be interesting to see what the e core haters have to say if, as rumored, AMD goes to hybrid architecture with Zen 5.
For any games that potentially scale beyond 8 cores if there are nay, for sure with 2 extra P cores. Though I do not know of any games that do. Though for running background tasks and streaming 2 extra P cores way way way better than more e-cores. Nevermind the no need to deal with the WIN11 and hybrid arch crap and Intel Thread director gimmicks.

Spamming more e-cores only is a bit better for productivity tasks that scale to infinite threads.
Do you have any data for streaming results? Admittedly, one would expect big cores to be better. However, without carefully controlled tests (I haven't seen any), it is just speculation. As for productivity, e cores are not a "bit better" as 13900k (8 + 16) is essentially equal to 7950x overall in productivity tasks. So essentially 16 e cores is equal to 8 AMD big cores.

That said, I am not a fan of big.little on the desktop either, but one cant argue with the data that at least with the current software and gaming landscape it seems to work. The real problem with big.little for Intel is that it should allow higher efficiency, but due to core design and a worse process, AMD is still more efficient.