Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

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Hulk

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.
 
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Kocicak

Golden Member
Jan 17, 2019
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.... but eventually I think Intel will have to increase the P cores instead of just spamming E cores.

If you look at this picture, if they enlarged the die a little bit, they could fit 6 more P cores on it instead of 16 E cores. Are you sure these extra P cores could perform so well as all those lost E cores?

Intel Raptor Lake Die P cor.jpg
 
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Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
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well which ever side amd or intel comes out with a 18-24core HEDT that gives me at least 64 pci-e 5.0 lanes, and wont end up costing me enterprise parts prices, will probably take my money this gen.

Im not looking hopeful at ThreadRipper Pro, as it seems they want to inflate the prices on them to keep them competitive with EYPC.
And im not hopeful in Intel giving us anything but expensive W CPU's which i believe started at 3000 dollars, hence keeping on line with Enterprise prices.

But man.. i realy want a new HEDT platform that can hold me off at least a good 4-5 yrs, with ample PCI-E, and one that wont trip my breaker each time it loads up to 100%, or require me to install a dedicated 240V outlet so i can install a 2200W PSU.
Why don't you buy used EPYC ? I have a 24 core 7401 + motherboard for $550, or upgrade to 32 core 7601 for $200 more.
 

yuri69

Senior member
Jul 16, 2013
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Below is an AMD PowerPoint clearly shows Zen 4 5nm being released prior to 2022.
You are using server roadmap. Server "releases" have become utterly stupid in recent server gens. The big ones got the chips way ahead of the official launch.

However, you are right Zen 4 is kinda late and still reuses the same smarty Zen approach which can't catch the Goden Cove's raw power (albeit in edge cases).
 

Det0x

Golden Member
Sep 11, 2014
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Beat this Raptor Lake..

View attachment 69646

:tonguewink: I'll See Myself Out...!
They take it easy with AVX2 with around 1500ST.
CPU-Z is not a good benchmark for a comparison eversince they updated it "for fairneess" which nerfed Zen performance-numbers with a modifier..

If you want a good AVX512 benchmark look no further then y-cruncher.. Think i took 16 core 2.5B WR by 2 seconds yesterday, just haven't released it yet :p
 

nicalandia

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2019
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They take it easy with AVX2 with around 1500ST.
CPU-Z is not a good benchmark for a comparison eversince they updated it "for fairneess" which nerfed Zen performance-numbers with a modifier..
I was just being Silly. Raptor Lake can't touch or hope to compete against AMD's AVX-512 Performance because Intel went to the trouble to manually disable it to segment their market..!
 

AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
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HWUB tests the 13600K, and it includes DDR4 3600 for the gaming tests. In short AMD 7600x leads gaming by a tiny bit compared to the 13600K with DDR5 (He considers it essentially identical performance), but the gap increases when the 13600K uses DDR4.
In productivity workloads the 13600K is in a different class, it's often neck and neck with the 5950X. But he sticks with DDR5 here.


Is it just me or am I the only one to prefer the 8x P-core + 4x e-core 12700 over the 6x P-core +8x e-core 13600.

For example I would highly recommend the Core i7 12700KF vs Core i5 13600KF.
 

nicalandia

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2019
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It's not exactly segmentation when it can't be supported with E-cores...
Atom cores used to support AVX-512 and SMT.. I think Intel just could not get Thread Director to perform well enough or within accepted performance to allow AVX-512 and SMT on those e cores.


On a different note. Have any of you owners of the new Raptor Lake CPUs beeing able to test what is the IPC boost on the Raptormont CPUs? AnandTech used to measure those details, but I have not found any Reviewers testing the IPC uplift from OG Gracemont Cove to Raptormont
 

Heartbreaker

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Apr 3, 2006
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Is it just me or am I the only one to prefer the 8x P-core + 4x e-core 12700 over the 6x P-core +8x e-core 13600.

For example I would highly recommend the Core i7 12700KF vs Core i5 13600KF.

Depends on price, Out of the box, the the 13600K looks faster overall, so unless the 12700K was cheaper, why go that way?
 

Exist50

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2016
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Atom cores used to support AVX-512 and SMT.. I think Intel just could not get Thread Director to perform well enough or within accepted performance to allow AVX-512 and SMT on those e cores.
I think Xeon Phi is simply too different to draw meaningful about general purpose CPUs. And I doubt thread director, of all things, is the limiting factor. Why would it even care about AVX-512? As for SMT, they're willing to add even more complexity with a 3rd tier for MTL, so clearly they don't seem overly concerned about it.

I think the real tell is the Forest line. Probably far more important than Atom in client, so if there was actual value to justify adding those features, you'd think they'd do it.
 

nicalandia

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2019
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So no Reviewers have tested the IPC of the Raptormont Cores? They have faster ring and Twice Cache$ per cluster.

Edit.
Never Mind The Hentai Loving OneRaichu Did test that long ago.. Average is 6% IPC(at ISO Speed) over OG Gracemont Cores, which is rather impressive performance boost if you add the 10% speed boost the combined performance boost is 16% at stock.

1666471778443.png
 
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AtenRa

Lifer
Feb 2, 2009
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Depends on price, Out of the box, the the 13600K looks faster overall, so unless the 12700K was cheaper, why go that way?

The performance difference is negligible, you can slightly increase the clocks on the 12700k to match the performance and power consumption of 13600K but have 8 P-cores instead of 6.
Also the price is very close, at newegg the 13600k is $330 and 12700K at $365

Personally I prefer to have the extra 2 P-cores
 

nicalandia

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Jan 10, 2019
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The performance difference is negligible, you can slightly increase the clocks on the 12700k to match the performance and power consumption of 13600K but have 8 P-cores instead of 6.
Also the price is very close, at newegg the 13600k is $330 and 12700K at $365

Personally I prefer to have the extra 2 P-cores
Games will prefer faster and higher cache 13600K, 6 core is enough for gaming.
 

nicalandia

Diamond Member
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Damn they wiped the floor with them (performance/price wise). AM5 needs a price cut to be competitive...
Wait until MTL-S Comes to market(If they even do) It will be their time to get Wiped Out...!! In the meantime The Chads rocking the 7800X3D Would still be within 5% of gaming top tier CPUs in 2024..
 

ondma

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Mar 18, 2018
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If you look at this picture, if they enlarged the die a little bit, they could fit 6 more P cores on it instead of 16 E cores. Are you sure these extra P cores could perform so well as all those lost E cores?

View attachment 69644
Would depend on the workload I assume. For embarrassingly multithreaded workloads, the E cores would probably be better. However, the E cores dont seem to benefit gaming much. With new generations of gpus coming out, dont you think 8P cores will eventually be insufficient for high end gaming? What they really need is a smaller and more power efficient P core.
 

ondma

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Mar 18, 2018
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Is it just me or am I the only one to prefer the 8x P-core + 4x e-core 12700 over the 6x P-core +8x e-core 13600.

For example I would highly recommend the Core i7 12700KF vs Core i5 13600KF.
Intuitively, I would agree with you. However, the data in the video doesn't back that up. The 13600k is faster in gaming than the 12700k. Sure, you could overclock the 12700k, but there is some overclocking headroom for the 13600k as well.
 
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Markfw

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May 16, 2002
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Would depend on the workload I assume. For embarrassingly multithreaded workloads, the E cores would probably be better. However, the E cores dont seem to benefit gaming much. With new generations of gpus coming out, dont you think 8P cores will eventually be insufficient for high end gaming? What they really need is a smaller and more power efficient P core.

I agree with the bolded part. Dump the e-core spam, and add a lot more P-cores. Well, and make it efficient enough to stay under 200 watts.
 

pakotlar

Senior member
Aug 22, 2003
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Do you really believe Intel has anything to make a Threadripper with 96C/192C look silly? REALLY?

You are aware that they haven't even released a Sapphire Based HEDT right?

Threadripper is discontinued. Zen 3 Threadripper Pro is $4k for 32 cores, is not HEDT, but workstation, a different segment. There are no rumors of a 96 core Threadripper Pro either. Intel certainly had nothing to offer for 1 socket that competes with 96 core Genoa, but I’m talking about CPUs for mere mortals, not $10K+ server parts.

If AMD offered a Zen 4 32 core for $1500 or 64 core for $3000, I would be very happy. Unfortunately AMD appears to be focused on price gouging customers, and Intel is going for value, how times change.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
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Why don't you buy used EPYC ? I have a 24 core 7401 + motherboard for $550, or upgrade to 32 core 7601 for $200 more.

i want something with a boost clock of at least 5ghz if not more.
I also want PCI-E 5.0.

If AMD offered a Zen 4 32 core for $1500 or 64 core for $3000, I would be very happy. Unfortunately AMD appears to be focused on price gouging customers, and Intel is going for value, how times change.

This is exactly my situation.
Except there is Zen 4 Thread Ripper Pro 32 core costs more then 3000.

WRX80 boards are also no joke. Thats if you can even find a authorized retailer that will sell them:

And it does not have the boost clock id like nor the pci-e 5.0.
 

pakotlar

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Aug 22, 2003
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i want something with a boost clock of at least 5ghz if not more.
I also want PCI-E 5.0.



This is exactly my situation.
Except there is Zen 4 Thread Ripper Pro 32 core costs more then 3000.

WRX80 boards are also no joke. Thats if you can even find a authorized retailer that will sell them:

And it does not have the boost clock id like nor the pci-e 5.0.

Agreed, except thats a Zen 3 Threadripper Pro, not Zen 4. In any case that’s what I want, but I’m not willing to pay above Threadripper prices. Those were already high enough. If Intel can give me 32 Raptor Cove cores at a reasonable price with near 13900K single core performance, I’ll buy my first Intel part since the 920 Nehalem. 13900K is impressive at 253W and below, except I want AVX512/fast matrix multiply, so current e-cores are out.
 
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