Question Raptor Lake - Official Thread

[Hulk]

Since we already have the first Raptor Lake leak I'm thinking it should have it's own thread.
What do we know so far?
From Anandtech's Intel Process Roadmap articles from July:

Built on Intel 7 with upgraded FinFET
10-15% PPW (performance-per-watt)
Last non-tiled consumer CPU as Meteor Lake will be tiled

I'm guessing this will be a minor update to ADL with just a few microarchitecture changes to the cores. The larger change will be the new process refinement allowing 8+16 at the top of the stack.

Will it work with current z690 motherboards? If yes then that could be a major selling point for people to move to ADL rather than wait.

 

[Markfw]

As soon as I get 13900KF, I switch off seven big. P-cores and I will use the hybrid big.LITTLE processor only with 1C/1T Raptor Cove up to 5.8GHz and 16c/16T "Raptormont" up to 4.3GHz. I haven't needed a big cores for over twenty years. After twenty years, I'll only treat myself one big. P-core for "blink blink" single-thread performance.

P.S. please do not judgeme, it is my decision, my requirements and my money. Peace.

"Raptormont" is of course Gracemont

Sure... I just don't see the sense of using one pcore- and all the rest e-core, instead of a much cheaper4 p-core and some e-cores/. Its your money though

 

[Hulk]

Even though Raptor Lake is clearly a massive improvement over 12th gen due to more threads and somewhat higher clocks (kudos to intel), it's just not as efficient or fast as Ryzen 7000. With Ryzen there is no thread director and no worry what is scheduled where and when, all cores are "P" cores and boost super high, guaranteeing more even performance scaling in MT workloads. IPC being neck even, and Ryzen supporting AVX512, while consuming much less power, makes it a superior platform (plus AM5 being at the beginning of its life cycle, unlike intel which is at its end). Still, in the mid range intel will sell a ton of 13600K and 13700K parts which will be a great success.

No doubt the 7950X is a masterpiece of CPU engineering. I really can't wait for some in-depth head-to-head reviews of the 7950X and the 13900K in real world applications like Photoshop, video editing, DAW's, and others. Also how both perform when say working in Photoshop while transcoding video in the background. Right now based on what we know it looks like the 13900K is going to have an uphill battle as I don't see any chinks in the 7950X's armor. If I didn't already have a 12700K system my next upgrade would probably be Zen 4. But the drop-in upgrade to the 13900K is going to be hard to resist if the price is good at my local Microcenter. Just for the playing around with all of those E cores if not anything else!

Damn, AMD has done it again. I mean honestly they've knocked it out of the park with this one. If you had told me last year that Zen 4 would hit 5.7GHz I would not have believed it. And a significant IPC increase on top of that, all while keeping power in check. Seriously impressive work. I actually don't think AMD hyped it enough for how good it turned out to be. Raptor will keep Intel in the game price-wise across the stack but should AMD decide to go price war on them it could be a long winter for Intel.

Absolutely no discounts on Zen 4 at Microcenter, which makes sense because Zen 3 can compete with Alder Lake just fine.

 

[poke01]

No doubt the 7950X is a masterpiece of CPU engineering. I really can't wait for some in-depth head-to-head reviews of the 7950X and the 13900K in real world applications like Photoshop, video editing, DAW's, and others. Also how both perform when say working in Photoshop while transcoding video in the background. Right now based on what we know it looks like the 13900K is going to have an uphill battle as I don't see any chinks in the 7950X's armor. If I didn't already have a 12700K system my next upgrade would probably be Zen 4. But the drop-in upgrade to the 13900K is going to be hard to resist if the price is good at my local Microcenter. Just for the playing around with all of those E cores if not anything else!

Damn, AMD has done it again. I mean honestly they've knocked it out of the park with this one. If you had told me last year that Zen 4 would hit 5.7GHz I would not have believed it. And I significant IPC increase on top of that, all while keeping power in check. Seriously impressive work. I actually don't think AMD hyped it enough for how good it turned out to be. Raptor will keep Intel in the game price-wise across the stack but should AMD decide to go price war on them it could be a long winter for Intel.

Absolutely no discounts on Zen 4 at Microcenter, which makes sense because Zen 3 can compete with Alder Lake just fine.

I don't think Intel is going to match AMD in efficiency until they reach node parity. So not until Arrow Lake.

 

[Markfw]

No doubt the 7950X is a masterpiece of CPU engineering. I really can't wait for some in-depth head-to-head reviews of the 7950X and the 13900K in real world applications like Photoshop, video editing, DAW's, and others. Also how both perform when say working in Photoshop while transcoding video in the background. Right now based on what we know it looks like the 13900K is going to have an uphill battle as I don't see any chinks in the 7950X's armor. If I didn't already have a 12700K system my next upgrade would probably be Zen 4. But the drop-in upgrade to the 13900K is going to be hard to resist if the price is good at my local Microcenter. Just for the playing around with all of those E cores if not anything else!

Damn, AMD has done it again. I mean honestly they've knocked it out of the park with this one. If you had told me last year that Zen 4 would hit 5.7GHz I would not have believed it. And I significant IPC increase on top of that, all while keeping power in check. Seriously impressive work. I actually don't think AMD hyped it enough for how good it turned out to be. Raptor will keep Intel in the game price-wise across the stack but should AMD decide to go price war on them it could be a long winter for Intel.

Absolutely no discounts on Zen 4 at Microcenter, which makes sense because Zen 3 can compete with Alder Lake just fine.

I know this is a raptor lake thread, but I have to agree. From my testing on 2 different apps, 8 P-cores can not touch 8 Zen 4 cores. And 16 Zen 4 cores seems untouchable in anything.

 

[Hulk]

I don't think Intel is going to match AMD in efficiency until they reach node parity. So not until Arrow Lake.

They could do it on the current node at least for massively parallel apps with tiles as they could put a ton of cores on a die, but they would take a huge economic hit. But yes you are correct, they can't do it in an economically feasible way until they can up the transistor density.

Looks like they won't be pulling any Core2Duo magic out of their hat this round.

 

[dark zero]

As soon as I get 13900KF, I switch off seven big. P-cores and I will use the hybrid big.LITTLE processor only with 1C/1T Raptor Cove up to 5.8GHz and 16c/16T "Raptormont" up to 4.3GHz. I haven't needed a big cores for over twenty years. After twenty years, I'll only treat myself one big. P-core for "blink blink" single-thread performance.

P.S. please do not judgeme, it is my decision, my requirements and my money. Peace.

"Raptormont" is of course Gracemont

Isn't better to wait for a Raptor Lake -N or something like that?

 

[IntelUser2000]

Looks like they won't be pulling any Core2Duo magic out of their had this round.

Well you could argue "Core 2 Duo magic" is Alderlake.

Unfortunately because of how bad the predecessor was, Core 2 was overblown.

What needs to be fixed is the entire company, not just product lines. Because the "politics" during Netburst/Core 2 era was likely due to the problem that's been brewing for a while.

Either this management does it or their chance on taking absolute leadership is going to disappear forever.

 

[sze5003]

Is the 13th gen the last cpu on the lga 1700 socket? I'm considering doing the upgrade from a i9 9900k to 13900k since performance will be a decent improvement but if 14th and 15th gen might use the same socket then perhaps I can force myself to wait. I used the same z370 board for two cpu swaps and I liked that.

 

[nicalandia]

Is the 13th gen the last cpu on the lga 1700 socket? I'm considering doing the upgrade from a i9 9900k to 13900k since performance will be a decent improvement but if 14th and 15th gen might use the same socket then perhaps I can force myself to wait. I used the same z370 board for two cpu swaps and I liked that.

Its the last CPU On that Socket

 

[Hulk]

Well you could argue "Core 2 Duo magic" is Alderlake.

Unfortunately because of how bad the predecessor was, Core 2 was overblown.

What needs to be fixed is the entire company, not just product lines. Because the "politics" during Netburst/Core 2 era was likely due to the problem that's been brewing for a while.

Either this management does it or their chance on taking absolute leadership is going to disappear forever.

I wasn't referring to specifically how good or bad Core2Duo was but only that is was so far ahead of the competition at the time. Intel as you remember was struggling with the P4 against the Athlon, Core2Duo cleared the field for quite a few years.

 

[majord]

Sorry. Calling Alderlake a Core 2 moment would be an insult to Core 2.

C2D brought the hurt in all directions. IPC, clockspeed, power efficiency , area efficiency, with very very little caveats , bar the use of FSB .

 

[IntelUser2000]

Sorry Calling Alderlake a Core 2 moment would be an insult to Core 2.

C2D brought the hurt in all directions. IPC, clockspeed, power efficiency , area efficiency, with very very little caveats , bar the use of FSB .

Technically you are 100% correct.

But Core 2 and Alderlake represents two very similar things. Massive jumps brought on by very different approaches. Both were big gains because the successors were particularly bad. Clockspeed scaling ending was the problem with Netburst, and process scaling problem was the issue with the predecessor of Alderlake.

Another thing is the viewpoint towards Core 2 for most of us here is from a desktop perspective. But on the laptop space, Netburst was quickly abandoned.

Then on 2007 the first iPhone. 2008 brought the Atom.

Specifically about the iPhone they were years ahead of the competition. The people in the presentation, especially the competition couldn't believe they pulled such a feat off! Me and my friends at the time thought it was amazing too!

2006 should have brought the Atom as well. Silvermont should have been 2011, or even earlier. Considering how Silvermont brought huge gains without die or power increases, 2009 version on the 45nm process would have worked really well.

So I would say the internal politics at Intel would have hurt what could have been. A cynical point of view is this is just another of countless examples of corporations failing when they get too big, and sometimes you just need a completely fresh start, which Smartphones brought. Contrary to the belief "too big to fail", actually they should be left to fail.

 

[poke01]

Technically you are 100% correct.

But Core 2 and Alderlake represents two very similar things. Massive jumps brought on by very different approaches. Both were big gains because the successors were particularly bad. Clockspeed scaling ending was the problem with Netburst, and process scaling problem was the issue with the predecessor of Alderlake.

Another thing is the viewpoint towards Core 2 for most of us here is from a desktop perspective. But on the laptop space, Netburst was quickly abandoned.

Then on 2007 the first iPhone. 2008 brought the Atom.

Specifically about the iPhone they were years ahead of the competition. The people in the presentation, especially the competition couldn't believe they pulled such a feat off! Me and my friends at the time thought it was amazing too!

2006 should have brought the Atom as well. Silvermont should have been 2011, or even earlier. Considering how Silvermont brought huge gains without die or power increases, 2009 version on the 45nm process would have worked really well.

So I would say the internal politics at Intel would have hurt what could have been. A cynical point of view is this is just another of countless examples of corporations failing when they get too big, and sometimes you just need a completely fresh start, which Smartphones brought. Contrary to the belief "too big to fail", actually they should be left to fail.

I always wondered if Intel took the iPhone orders, x86 would have likely have dominant for a long long time.
M1 would not have existed or some form of it this early. Intel would have made atom better and put more resources into it.

 

[IntelUser2000]

I always wondered if Intel took the iPhone orders, x86 would have likely have dominant for a long long time.
M1 would not have existed or some form of it this early. Intel would have made atom better and put more resources into it.

Pentium M was very likely developed in response to the Transmeta Crusoe.

So we have a company that does the same thing for years until they get a credible threat and then they do something about it.

Maybe my alternate reality is just that and nothing else. Because we never would have had a version of Intel developing adjacent markets organically.

They never do. Cause ideally they should have got CPU power lower and lower until the point where Smartphone would have been a natural fit.

Actually I guess that's true with all of us. When we push ourselves we do something we wouldn't have thought possible otherwise. "What's needed to have a computer in a pocket?" is very different from making a chip to fit in a laptop.

 

[moinmoin]

I'm considering doing the upgrade from a i9 9900k to 13900k

If you are considering doing that on your existing board, you can't. Intel boards are only compatible for two gens of chips each, even if they use the same socket the pin configuration is made incompatible.

 

[sze5003]

If you are considering doing that on your existing board, you can't. Intel boards are only compatible for two gens of chips each, even if they use the same socket the pin configuration is made incompatible.

Oh that's not what I meant. I know I would need a new board. My point was since the 13th gen is the last chip on the lga 1700 it may be worth waiting for 14th gen since that new socket would support two gens.

But then I'd be at a bottleneck if I get a 4090 GPU at some point and stick with my 9900k.

 

[igor_kavinski]

But then I'd be at a bottleneck if I get a 4090 GPU at some point and stick with my 9900k.

You can circumvent that somewhat by sticking to playing at 4K or using DSR. That would ensure that your GPU is sufficiently taxed. Never go below Ultra settings. That way, you can be sure that you are getting your money's worth. As someone still on a i7-5775C desktop, I think the 9900K should give you two more years easily, provided your graphical settings are not CPU limited.

 

[sze5003]

You can circumvent that somewhat by sticking to playing at 4K or using DSR. That would ensure that your GPU is sufficiently taxed. Never go below Ultra settings. That way, you can be sure that you are getting your money's worth. As someone still on a i7-5775C desktop, I think the 9900K should give you two more years easily, provided your graphical settings are not CPU limited.

Good point, I play mainly at 3440x1440 and usually use ultra settings. My motivation for going 13900k would be for the Vram bandwidth with a military flight sim in VR. But that's the most taxing thing I usually run.

I'm too fond of my ultrawide to go actual 4k and the closest thing next would be either a 42 inch LG C2 or the Asus pg42u but both of these seem big for my desk.

 

[Carfax83]

This guy has the hardware, and is using an RTX 4090 so there is no GPU bottlenecking like there was with the RTX 3000 series, even at 1440p max settings. As I predicted, Raptor Lake is the faster gaming CPU, and will be even faster when DDR5 7000+ kits become widely available later this month. These benchmarks were done with DDR5 6200, which is more advantageous to Zen 4 than it is to Raptor Lake.

Couldn't do embedded links because he blocked that feature from being used for his videos as he wants the clicks. If you do watch the videos please leave a like:

7700x vs 13700K

7950x vs 13900K

5800x 3D vs 13600K

 

[sze5003]

This guy has the hardware, and is using an RTX 4090 so there is no GPU bottlenecking like there was with the RTX 3000 series, even at 1440p max settings. As I predicted, Raptor Lake is the faster gaming CPU, and will be even faster when DDR5 7000+ kits become widely available later this month. These benchmarks were done with DDR5 6200, which is more advantageous to Zen 4 than it is to Raptor Lake.

Couldn't do embedded links because he blocked that feature from being used for his videos as he wants the clicks. If you do watch the videos please leave a like:

7700x vs 13700K

7950x vs 13900K

5800x 3D vs 13600K

Oh I meant the i9 9900k would be a bottleneck for the 4090. I did see one person bench a 4090 with my processor and it seemed to do fine, I didn't see any issues with performance. If anything maybe a couple fps less.

 

[Det0x]

This guy has the hardware, and is using an RTX 4090 so there is no GPU bottlenecking like there was with the RTX 3000 series, even at 1440p max settings. As I predicted, Raptor Lake is the faster gaming CPU, and will be even faster when DDR5 7000+ kits become widely available later this month. These benchmarks were done with DDR5 6200, which is more advantageous to Zen 4 than it is to Raptor Lake.

Couldn't do embedded links because he blocked that feature from being used for his videos as he wants the clicks. If you do watch the videos please leave a like:

7700x vs 13700K

7950x vs 13900K

5800x 3D vs 13600K

Video description reads like a PR statement to me.. Not something a normal "guy" would write..
Is this one of Intel's seeded "influencers" ?

The Intel Core i9-13900K is a desktop processor with 24 cores, launched in September 2022. It is part of the Core i9 lineup, using the Raptor Lake architecture with Socket 1700. Thanks to Intel Hyper-Threading the core-count is effectively doubled, to 32 threads. Core i9-13900K has 36MB of L3 cache and operates at 3 GHz by default, but can boost up to 5.8 GHz, depending on the workload. Intel is building the Core i9-13900K on a 10 nm production process, the transistor count is unknown. You may freely adjust the unlocked multiplier on Core i9-13900K, which simplifies overclocking greatly, as you can easily dial in any overclocking frequency. With a TDP of 125 W, the Core i9-13900K consumes a lot of power, so good cooling is definitely needed. Intel's processor supports DDR4 and DDR5 memory with a dual-channel interface. ECC memory is supported, too, which is an important capability for mission-critical systems, to avoid data corruption. For communication with other components in the computer, Core i9-13900K uses a PCI-Express Gen 5 connection. This processor features the UHD Graphics 770 integrated graphics solution.

And if you dont mind me asking, why are you asking us specially to leave him a like ?
Are you affiliated in any way with this video/channel ?

 

[Carfax83]

Oh I meant the i9 9900k would be a bottleneck for the 4090. I did see one person bench a 4090 with my processor and it seemed to do fine, I didn't see any issues with performance. If anything maybe a couple fps less.

I think you meant to reply to @igor_kavinski.

 

[nicalandia]

Can we Please Get back at Talking about Raptor Lake?

 

[Harry_Wild]

Intel Core i9-13900K Raptor Lake CPU Offers Same Performance As Core i9-12900K With "Unlimited Power" at Just 80W

Intel Core i9-13900K Raptor Lake CPU shows the same performance as Core i9-12900K Alder Lake while consuming just 80W of power.

wccftech.com

Tempting but the holiday price will determine my purchase between the 7050X and 13900K at low wattage. Intel still runs hotter by 15 degrees Celsius, so a deeper discount is called for before I jump to buy the 13900K.

 

[Carfax83]

Video description reads like a PR statement to me.. Not something a normal "guy" would write..
Is this one of Intel's seeded "influencers" ?

I have no idea. Perhaps it's because the CPUs have not been officially released yet and he wants to be informative. Does it matter? It's not like he's an official source or something. He can put whatever he wants in his video description.

And if you dont mind me asking, why are you asking us specially to leave him a like ?
Are you affiliated in any way with this video/channel ?

Because he's giving an early glimpse of the 13th gen gaming performance and his benchmark method was actually decent. There are other Raptor Lake vs Zen 4 comparisons on YouTube already with the RTX 4090 but they were testing at 4K......which for a CPU performance preview is nonsensical; even with an RTX 4090.

I think we can all appreciate proper benchmarking. These videos are far superior to that trash from that idiot framechaser you posted a few pages back at least.