JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,584
- 985
- 126
They are trying to make it more attractive to ditch your car and use public transportation...duh.
Driving is heavily subsidized in NYC. So you're complaining about paying for what you've had cheap for too long?
Liet
Golden Member
- Jun 9, 2001
- 1,529
- 0
- 0
Yep. Completely misdirected, too.
OP, I can't believe you're blaming transit-riders, as though we took a vote on it. Did you know the MTA is planning to raise the fare on us AND reduce service? Two weeks afterwards I guarantee they'll find a budget surplus but refuse to reduce the fare; because that's exactly what happened last time.
You should be blaming the MTA and the city, not the people who live here.
If they tax or increase rates on public transportion then a lot of people will go back to cars. So while you don't have to stand next to some jackass on a crowded ass train, you'll instead have to idle next to one in your car in a crowded ass street.
There are few areas where public transportation has a net positive effect. In NYC with its geographically limited ability to expand its road infrastructure it does. However look around the country and see the studies. Public Transportation is a bust on a massive scale. Never achieves its goals and costs a lot of money. Mass tranist consumes a far larger % of the budget than it delivers. And to achieve any kind of real congestion relief. The costs would be astronomical and unable to keep up with demand. All you are doing is moving people off a road and onto a bus or train. What do you think moves more people in a given hour? A train or that highway?
Mass transit works in specific corridors where you want to relieve congestion. The problem is the systems are applied system wide and fail.
Mass transit works in specific corridors where you want to relieve congestion. The problem is the systems are applied system wide and fail.
- May 19, 2003
- 23,332
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Did I mention that even with the increased tolls, they are eliminating service? Two whole lines are being cut, and transit police are being reduced.
So in the end, if I use public transportation -- I'll be on a more crowded train, have to find alternative routes, and be in an [already] unsafe enviornment?
What is so attractive about that?
I agree with OP. Screw public transit, government should subsidize car ownership so everyone and their mother has to take a motor vehicle to work. No car pooling either, that's for losers.
ebaycj
Diamond Member
- Mar 9, 2002
- 5,418
- 0
- 0
They are trying to get people to STOP using their cars so damn much, and START using public transportation more.
It's just like taxes on cigarettes. They keep raising them hoping that the financial motivation to quit will make some people stop smoking.
How hard is this for you to figure out?
I happen to live in NYC myself so I know what the OP is talking about but things are not as simple as they seem. It's just a balancing act, people need to get places. You charge more for cars then more people will ride public, you charge more on the rides then more people will drive cars. But that's not the issue we're discussing, what you're complaining about is being charged more for being a driver.
But I think you got it all wrong, I don't work for the MTA so I don't have the numbers but I imagine it should cost a lot more to maintain roads, tunnel, bridges and the personnel to manage them than it does to maintain a fixed transportation system for which more revenue is generated from than the tolls you pay to drive your car.
And you can't pin all the fees and cost associated with driving on the commuters too. When I take the subway I don't need insurance because I have little chance of causing an accident.
It's funny how you think you have an easy solution for all this but you don't.
But I think you got it all wrong, I don't work for the MTA so I don't have the numbers but I imagine it should cost a lot more to maintain roads, tunnel, bridges and the personnel to manage them than it does to maintain a fixed transportation system for which more revenue is generated from than the tolls you pay to drive your car.
And you can't pin all the fees and cost associated with driving on the commuters too. When I take the subway I don't need insurance because I have little chance of causing an accident.
It's funny how you think you have an easy solution for all this but you don't.
techs
Lifer
- Sep 26, 2000
- 28,559
- 4
- 0
Absolutely true. I can't believe the STUPIDITY of the posters in this thread. NYC spent tens of billions of dollars buiding and maintaining roads and bridges for motorists. Bridges like the Brooklyn Bridge, Manhattan Bridge, 59 st. bridge are FREE to cross. Why? Because NY City taxpayers are subsidizing drivers.
So basically, most people in this thread are morons.
Here is the short version:
Stop bitching. NYC is a massive zoo of people and that zoo needs a lot in order for it to function and a big part of that is transportation which is expensive. Sure, they could make it so you don't have to pay as much out of your pocket to keep up with the zoo but I guarantee you that you would be more miserable. If you do not like it then that is fine, but understand that you are choosing to live there. Most other places in the country would be cheaper for you to live in. By living in NYC, you are basically choosing to pay more money for the luxury of being there. If you do not believe that what you are paying for is worth it then leave. You can hate my reasoning as much as you want, but let's face it. Is there really any other way to go about the situation that will actually happen and change your life for the better? I think not.
Maybe not to you, but if you look at it being $5 each way to and from work then that is $10 per day. If you work M-F then your average month is 20 days of necessary commuting. That comes out to $200 a month just to get to and from work using public transportation which is a lot for many people who are barely making ends meet. As it stands, I pay less than that between both my gas and insurance costs for my car. Not much less but still less. The idea here is to get people to use public transportation more so it doesn't make sense to charge about the same if not more to use it.
Stop bitching. NYC is a massive zoo of people and that zoo needs a lot in order for it to function and a big part of that is transportation which is expensive. Sure, they could make it so you don't have to pay as much out of your pocket to keep up with the zoo but I guarantee you that you would be more miserable. If you do not like it then that is fine, but understand that you are choosing to live there. Most other places in the country would be cheaper for you to live in. By living in NYC, you are basically choosing to pay more money for the luxury of being there. If you do not believe that what you are paying for is worth it then leave. You can hate my reasoning as much as you want, but let's face it. Is there really any other way to go about the situation that will actually happen and change your life for the better? I think not.
Maybe not to you, but if you look at it being $5 each way to and from work then that is $10 per day. If you work M-F then your average month is 20 days of necessary commuting. That comes out to $200 a month just to get to and from work using public transportation which is a lot for many people who are barely making ends meet. As it stands, I pay less than that between both my gas and insurance costs for my car. Not much less but still less. The idea here is to get people to use public transportation more so it doesn't make sense to charge about the same if not more to use it.
Aharami
Lifer
- Aug 31, 2001
- 21,205
- 165
- 106
OP, wth are you thinking driving into nyc?! no wonder you're so stressed out. take the public buses or trains. get in, sit down, take a nap, get out!
and my friend works for the city planning commission in nyc. He was telling me that by 2050, they expect close to 30 million people living in nyc. They expect all of nyc metro area to be as congested as manhattan. It will be one giant city encompassing NYC, Jersey City, Hoboken, etc. They have a lot of tough hurdles to cross. He was also telling me traffic in nyc is getting a bigger and bigger headache because as traffic grows, so does road repair frequency and costs. Basically revenues coming in from tolls, taxes, etc wont be enough to keep up with maintenance costs. They have to figure out ways to lower traffic and congestion, and so far, the easiest way to do that is to discourage driving into the city (manhattan) by hiking up all tolls.
it will only get worse. You should really consider public transportation
and my friend works for the city planning commission in nyc. He was telling me that by 2050, they expect close to 30 million people living in nyc. They expect all of nyc metro area to be as congested as manhattan. It will be one giant city encompassing NYC, Jersey City, Hoboken, etc. They have a lot of tough hurdles to cross. He was also telling me traffic in nyc is getting a bigger and bigger headache because as traffic grows, so does road repair frequency and costs. Basically revenues coming in from tolls, taxes, etc wont be enough to keep up with maintenance costs. They have to figure out ways to lower traffic and congestion, and so far, the easiest way to do that is to discourage driving into the city (manhattan) by hiking up all tolls.
it will only get worse. You should really consider public transportation
Yup.
You live and/or work on an overcrowded island where having a car is somewhat of a luxury. You should be used to it by now.
it IS a luxury.
Hell, Boston has wayyyy less people, and a far less complex public transit system, and I still think cars should be more of a luxury.
On a side note, I do have to say that the NYC subway is a joke. The system is outdated and could really use a much needed overhaul. There will be times when a train is late and the platform would get real crowded. When the train arrives everyone starts cramming in as if is going to be an agonizing 10 hour wait for the next one and that holds up the line even further. When the next train arrives, it's practically empty because everyone and their mothers squeezed into that first train like a clown car.
I've been to other transit systems and they are nothing like this. Like in Hong Kong, each station would have a timer telling you an estimated arrival of the next train which is usually just 5 minutes apart at most. People don't get all crazy when they miss a train, they know another one is not far behind. Plus the fare is more fair
You pay for the distance you travel and at most it comes out to like $4USD to travel the full distance from one end to the other. It works wonders since people are more inclined to take the transit system for short distances.
I've been to other transit systems and they are nothing like this. Like in Hong Kong, each station would have a timer telling you an estimated arrival of the next train which is usually just 5 minutes apart at most. People don't get all crazy when they miss a train, they know another one is not far behind. Plus the fare is more fair
You pay for the distance you travel and at most it comes out to like $4USD to travel the full distance from one end to the other. It works wonders since people are more inclined to take the transit system for short distances.Originally posted by: darkxshade
On a side note, I do have to say that the NYC subway is a joke. The system is outdated and could really use a much needed overhaul. There will be times when a train is late and the platform would get real crowded. When the train arrives everyone starts cramming in as if is going to be an agonizing 10 hour wait for the next one and that holds up the line even further. When the next train arrives, it's practically empty because everyone and their mothers squeezed into that first train like a clown car.
I've been to other transit systems and they are nothing like this. Like in Hong Kong, each station would have a timer telling you an estimated arrival of the next train which is usually just 5 minutes apart at most. People don't get all crazy when they miss a train, they know another one is not far behind. Plus the fare is more fair
You clearly haven't been to Toronto's
. There are 3 lines there, 4 if you count the "U" shaped onethat runs 3/4 blocks away from the other separately.
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 52,787
- 46,600
- 136
Originally posted by: darkxshade
On a side note, I do have to say that the NYC subway is a joke. The system is outdated and could really use a much needed overhaul. There will be times when a train is late and the platform would get real crowded. When the train arrives everyone starts cramming in as if is going to be an agonizing 10 hour wait for the next one and that holds up the line even further. When the next train arrives, it's practically empty because everyone and their mothers squeezed into that first train like a clown car.
I've been to other transit systems and they are nothing like this. Like in Hong Kong, each station would have a timer telling you an estimated arrival of the next train which is usually just 5 minutes apart at most. People don't get all crazy when they miss a train, they know another one is not far behind. Plus the fare is more fair
A lot of issues stem from almost all of the system being anywhere form 50 to 100 years old and the sheer size (largest in the world by track miles) of it. An extensive modernization of the entire system would probably run in the high tens of billions.
Zone based fares are probably the eventual future of most transit systems but the logistics are more complicated and the increased fares on what was a flat fare system are very unpopular.
I wouldn't be so quick to make that assumption. What a lot of people forget is the electrical costs to run that system are alarmingly steep. Also remember that the MTA has to have their own insurance and maintain a police force.
sdifox
No Lifer
- Sep 30, 2005
- 100,483
- 17,953
- 126
Or just show them the video footages of big black out of Aug 13, 2003. That should scare them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Blackout_of_2003
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