(rant) Skype, Windows 8, Microsoft account integration

[mikeymikec]

Microsoft really, really deserves a slap.

I was trying to do a bit of computer tuition this morning for a customer. She's a complete computer newbie, and she bought the laptop running Windows 8 herself. She wanted to know how to use Skype, so she needs the software installed and the account setting up first. Easy, right?

From experience I normally go to skype.com and download the installer, then use its account creation wizard. Today, I get "Download Skype for Windows 8!". Ok, click on the link. full-screen Windows Store appears (from clicking on a link in an IE *window*).

You need to create a Microsoft account before you use the Windows Store. Fine, I'll use the customer's gmail address that I had previously set up and a new password. As this information is stored in a file, I alt-tabbed and found the file. Copy and paste the e-mail address, fine, then copy the password and alt-tab back. The login prompt has got rid of the e-mail address, thanks a bunch.

After faffing around trying to get the account verified (first e-mail seems to have disappeared down a black hole, so after waiting a while, resend, appears straight away, then the first request appears five minutes later), during which time I *must not be able to download Skype through the Windows Store*, so I spend my time more productively going to the Skype website again and I found a different link to download Skype.

When the account is finally verified, I return to Skype's login prompt and think "hmm, Skype IDs aren't normally e-mail addresses, considering I haven't been prompted for one, I wonder what mine is, considering that Microsoft have integrated Skype and MS login details). I try the customer's e-mail address. Nope. I try it without @gmail.com. Nope. I then tried to log in on Windows Live for this account which presented me with an Inbox (an inbox, for a non-MS e-mail address that I haven't given the password for?). I tried the same thing again but via the Skype website. The username is listed as 'live:customersfirstpartofe-mailaddress' (though in one place MS have helpfully faded out half the username so you can't read it completely), so I try that in Skype. Still nothing.

In the end I gave up and created a new Skype account via the website and it all worked as I would have expected it to in the first place (on a pre win8 system).

I showed the customer how to use Skype. Then, oddly, Skype informed me that an update was available. I installed it, then the UI had changed so I had to go through parts of it again with the customer.

 

[Nothinman]

That's sounds about right given what MS considers "easy" software installation.

 

[Berryracer]

you can have your Gmail or any email used as a Microsoft account by registering it here:

www.passport.net

I use my Gmail to login to my Microsoft Store

 

[ShawnD1]

That's sounds about right given what MS considers "easy" software installation.

That company is run by drug addicts. I'll be on a page to download MSN or some distributable patch, and I can't find where I'm supposed to click. I'm expecting something like a colored box or a big button or an icon or some other thing that stands out. Nope, the download button is just simple text in the top right corner with all of the other text links. wtf?

Reminds me of the video where Chris Pirillo's dad tries using Windows 8 for the first time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU

Here's him using Mac OS X for the first time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeeOkHjV7nM

I posted my own extremely negative review of Windows 7 a few years ago. It was all UI problems. Other Microsoft products like MSN seemed incompatible with Windows 7 because they no longer closed the window and sat in the system tray; the window would continue to sit in the taskbar and take up space. To this day, I still need to run MSN Messenger and the popular file sharing program eMule in Windows Vista compatibility mode just so they go to the system tray properly.

 

[Nothinman]

That company is run by drug addicts. I'll be on a page to download MSN or some distributable patch, and I can't find where I'm supposed to click. I'm expecting something like a colored box or a big button or an icon or some other thing that stands out. Nope, the download button is just simple text in the top right corner with all of the other text links. wtf?

Reminds me of the video where Chris Pirillo's dad tries using Windows 8 for the first time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4boTbv9_nU

Here's him using Mac OS X for the first time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeeOkHjV7nM

I posted my own extremely negative review of Windows 7 a few years ago. It was all UI problems. Other Microsoft products like MSN seemed incompatible with Windows 7 because they no longer closed the window and sat in the system tray; the window would continue to sit in the taskbar and take up space. To this day, I still need to run MSN Messenger and the popular file sharing program eMule in Windows Vista compatibility mode just so they go to the taskbar properly.

The sad part is that all of the pieces are there but MS is using them so poorly. MSI files are analogous to Linux packages with dependency information and everything so they could easily add the ability to download dependencies, instead MS' own installers just quit and say "You need to download and install MSXML 6.0 first". And WU could be extended to allow 3rd party repositories so that Adobe, Oracle, etc could setup a repo and have their updates pushed through a standard mechanism instead of installing their own services. The fact that I can't go into an update control panel and have it update every single piece of software (excluding stuff just extracted from a zip or similar) on a Windows PC is just disgraceful these days.

 

[mikeymikec]

you can have your Gmail or any email used as a Microsoft account by registering it here:

www.passport.net

I use my Gmail to login to my Microsoft Store

I know (see OP).

And WU could be extended to allow 3rd party repositories so that Adobe, Oracle, etc.

Lovely idea, but I would bet that some idiot third party would want to circulate updates that break things, and MS gets the heat for it.

Also, it wouldn't allow Oracle to peddle the crap they usually do with Java updates, such as the Ask Toolbar, so they wouldn't be in favour of it.

@ ShawnD1

Admittedly I've seen crazier things from supposedly respectable companies - I was looking for a driver update for an older Intel wifi adapter, so I specified the adapter using their usual system. It said "here's the latest driver", so I downloaded that, which thought about it for a while then did nothing. I then read the small print, which said that all this update does is update Intel ProSet, not the driver, for this particular adapter.

However, I've seen WLM on Win7 sit on the system tray plenty of times without any problems.

 

[biostud]

Win8 is a strange mix of metro (or whatever it's called now) and the desktop, very schizophrenic, specially for the new-beginners.

 

[Nothinman]

ILovely idea, but I would bet that some idiot third party would want to circulate updates that break things, and MS gets the heat for it.

Also, it wouldn't allow Oracle to peddle the crap they usually do with Java updates, such as the Ask Toolbar, so they wouldn't be in favour of it.

MS still gets the blame virtually every time there's a problem with Windows so what would change? And they already do it for drivers so why not userland software too? Hell, driver updates are much more problematic in Windows.

MS shouldn't enable Oracle's stupidity, they just need to provide proper tools. If Oracle wants to include the Ask Toolbar in their full installer on the website they still can while they only push out security updates via WU. Just like happens with drivers now.

 

[mikeymikec]

Win8 is a strange mix of metro (or whatever it's called now) and the desktop, very schizophrenic, specially for the new-beginners.

For the purposes of teaching this newbie, I've been ignoring Metro completely. When it boots, she clicks on 'Desktop' IE, Thunderbird, Picasa and LibreOffice are all there for her needs so far.

I guess I should count myself fortunate that there is a non-Metro Skype version for Win8.

 

[thewhat]

I can sympathize with OP. Although I use Windows, I'm relatively fine with it and I'll probably continue to use it for some time, I can see how people get frustrated with it and with the whole MS environment.

It's nothing new, mind you. Here's a 10 year old rant, from no other than Bill Gates himself:
http://www.edibleapple.com/2010/09/09/when-bill-gates-called-microsoftcom-a-terrible-website-and-lambasted-windows-usability/

Microsoft websites in particular are an inconsistent mess (with floating feedback windows!). I usually need to use Google to find something there.
I hope some day someone at MS will say "that's enough" and nuke everything, from the websites to the UIs and just start from scratch.

 

[ShawnD1]

I can sympathize with OP. Although I use Windows, I'm relatively fine with it and I'll probably continue to use it for some time, I can see how people get frustrated with it and with the whole MS environment.

It's nothing new, mind you. Here's a 10 year old rant, from no other than Bill Gates himself:
http://www.edibleapple.com/2010/09/09/when-bill-gates-called-microsoftcom-a-terrible-website-and-lambasted-windows-usability/

Gates is totally right about the weird issue of fast downloads then extremely slow installs. That's still a problem. Installing things like MSN take several minutes. During that time, my E6600 processor (top of the line at the time) is pinned at 50%, meaning one of the cores is maxed out while doing whatever it's doing. wtf is this? Every time I do a fresh install on any computer, putting Microsoft stuff on the machine takes the most time.

 

[lxskllr]

Gates is totally right about the weird issue of fast downloads then extremely slow installs. That's still a problem. Installing things like MSN take several minutes. During that time, my E6600 processor (top of the line at the time) is pinned at 50%, meaning one of the cores is maxed out while doing whatever it's doing. wtf is this? Every time I do a fresh install on any computer, putting Microsoft stuff on the machine takes the most time.

That was a factor in me switching my mother from Vista to Ubuntu. There were a few more serious concerns, but updating her box was an exercise in frustration. The simplest updates would take forever to install, and then take even more time during the mandated reboot. I've literally installed full operating systems in less time than it took that machine to install some of the larger updates.

 

[Gintaras]

Win8 is a strange mix of metro (or whatever it's called now) and the desktop, very schizophrenic, specially for the new-beginners.

You don't need to have Metro if you don't want to

My computer starts with this, well, before taking pic, I clicked on My Computer on desktop:

 

[Gintaras]

you can have your Gmail or any email used as a Microsoft account by registering it here:

www.passport.net

I use my Gmail to login to my Microsoft Store

Can I ask? why do you need to login to that store?
What you buy there? Microsoft Beer? Bill Gates socks?

 

[Nothinman]

Can I ask? why do you need to login to that store?
What you buy there? Microsoft Beer? Bill Gates socks?

Why are you even here if you're not going to try to participate?

 

[sze5003]

Can I ask? why do you need to login to that store?
What you buy there? Microsoft Beer? Bill Gates socks?

When I tried to get Skype it auto opened ms store. Most apps in windows 8 can be brought in from this store. I myself didn't set up win 8 with a live account. Haven't used my live account since 8th grade I don't need it.

I also don't use win 8 on many other PCs so I don't need apps synced. I certainly will not buy a laptop with win 8. On my desktop its fine though.

 

[wirednuts]

microsoft deserves a bigger slap for their android app. anything ics or above, it is absolute crap. worse then that really. on any device i try. its so sad, because i really WANT it.

skype's call quality and pricing hasnt changed with the ms takeover, yet, but for now their software is just garbage. you would think it would be the opposite after a SOFTWARE company took them over.

 

[RampantAndroid]

For the purposes of teaching this newbie, I've been ignoring Metro completely. When it boots, she clicks on 'Desktop' IE, Thunderbird, Picasa and LibreOffice are all there for her needs so far.

I guess I should count myself fortunate that there is a non-Metro Skype version for Win8.

Then why did you even click the Skype for win8 link? it's in the Windows store, it's modern...

As for a link in IE opening the store, have you never used a mobile phone? Links in chrome open android store. Same for iOS and OSX.

For this customer, you should *probably* introduce her to start8.

 

[mikeymikec]

Then why did you even click the Skype for win8 link? it's in the Windows store, it's modern...

I started off on the Skype website, like I said. Which in turn opened the Windows Store.

As for a link in IE opening the store, have you never used a mobile phone? Links in chrome open android store. Same for iOS and OSX.

I have, what's your point? If the download button had downloaded the Skype installer, in the best case scenario the route to downloading Skype is somewhat shorter (not having to go through the Windows Store). Why add several steps?

For this customer, you should *probably* introduce her to start8.

Bear in mind that she became my customer just when Windows 8 was released. At that point (and I'm still on the fence), I was inclined to see how things went with Windows 8's new UI (I had encountered it once before then, but not for long enough to generate an opinion), and also a third party piece of software altering the UI might have generated its own complications. If at some point she says "do I need this Start screen, it's getting in my way", I'll suggest it.

The last thing I want to do is force my UI preferences on my customers, especially when I don't know for a fact that given the choice they might prefer the default UI.

 

[Gintaras]

When I tried to get Skype it auto opened ms store. Most apps in windows 8 can be brought in from this store. I myself didn't set up win 8 with a live account. Haven't used my live account since 8th grade I don't need it.

I also don't use win 8 on many other PCs so I don't need apps synced. I certainly will not buy a laptop with win 8. On my desktop its fine though.

I use Win8 because I was FORCED to use when I bought new laptop...
I'm not familiar with linux and other stuff...
But I completely turned off "Metro" screens and all these scam stores...
Will see, what happens when I'll try to install skype on that laptop, on my another - Acer, I got skype from skype site...
I'm not skype, facebook person...just have a few people that I can communicate thru skype...sometimes...

"Live account" don't even know what it is....
Must be, I got pretty old...

 

[RampantAndroid]

I started off on the Skype website, like I said. Which in turn opened the Windows Store.

I have, what's your point? If the download button had downloaded the Skype installer, in the best case scenario the route to downloading Skype is somewhat shorter (not having to go through the Windows Store). Why add several steps?

It makes absolute sense when you realize that "for windows 8" means modern. If you look just further down the page, you see "for desktop" - the language is very clear to me. As for why use the store - because going through there is how you get licenses, and how it gets added to your apps so should you ever need to restore apps, you can.

 

[mikeymikec]

It makes absolute sense when you realize that "for windows 8" means modern. If you look just further down the page, you see "for desktop" - the language is very clear to me. As for why use the store - because going through there is how you get licenses, and how it gets added to your apps so should you ever need to restore apps, you can.

If that makes sense to you in the context of Skype, I'm happy for you

 

[MadScientist]

Setting up a Windows 8 laptop for my sister-in-law. Using Start8 to bring back the Start menu. Boots right to the desktop. I downloaded and installed Skype for desktop, not the Windows 8 version. Works fine.
http://www.skype.com/en/download-skype/skype-for-computer/