Rant -Saving your progress in console games

[tk149]

/rant on

Ok, I can understand that back in the "old" days, memory was expensive, and it made sense to limit the number of "save points" in games because then you could have very small file sizes for the save files.

Today, hard drives are standard on the PS3 (the smallest hard drive was 20 GB). The 360's (except for the Core and Arcade abominations) have hard drives, and even the Arcade has 256 MB Flash on board.

Even the Wii has 512 MB on board, with an SD card slot for expansion.

So why oh why are there still save points in games? Sometimes I don't really want to backtrack 10 minutes to find the last save point in a game.

Curse you Final Fantasy XIII, Resistance FoM, Eternal Sonata, and Zelda (to name just a few)!

/rant off

/sideways rant

Why the heck does Resident Evil Zero (for Gamecube) limit the number of saves you can do with a "typewriter ribbon" system (you have to find a typewriter ribbon, and then find a typewriter (save point) and use up a ribbon)? Whoever came up with that needs to be shot. And turned into a zombie. And then shot again.

/rant off

 

[dpodblood]

Actually I prefer the checkpoint system. Game's are way too easy if you can just quick save constantly.

 

[American Gunner]

I agree with both of you at times. I know that for games like Fallout, I would save it before entering a new area to save myself all the time of traveling over there, but when you can save wherever you want it does make games easier. Certain genres should allow for easy saves, while others, like shooters should use check points.

 

[dpodblood]

The only reason Fallout need's quick saves is due to the abundance of game breaking glitches.

 

[purbeast0]

tk149, resident evil was first created on PSX back in 96 and it used the ribbon system to save. it added to the survival horror aspect of that game. you had very limited everything in that game, and that is what made it difficult to survive. you had to play smart and save smart or else you could end up screwed.

man that game owned so hard when it came out ... still remember getting scared shitless when the dogs broke through the window early on.

 

[American Gunner]

If I took 20 minutes walking to a place and get killed right when I walk in then I would be upset. Just using that as an example of a certain type of game where easy saves don't ruin the game in my opinion.

 

[purbeast0]

i think one thing that is even worse is having checkpoints in extremely poor locations in a game.

one that I can remember off hand that was extremely annoying was a level in Gears of War on like hte 4th level or so I think (think it was part 1 as well) where you first get hte cross bow. it literally has a check point right before an in-game-non-skippable-cutscene that took probably 1 minute or so to get through. then after that part you were faced with these new types of enemies who had crossbows and had great accuracy.

playing this on the hardest difficulty was really frustrating at this part. you didn't get another checkpoint until you defeated all of them.

 

[blurredvision]

tk149, resident evil was first created on PSX back in 96 and it used the ribbon system to save. it added to the survival horror aspect of that game. you had very limited everything in that game, and that is what made it difficult to survive. you had to play smart and save smart or else you could end up screwed.

man that game owned so hard when it came out ... still remember getting scared shitless when the dogs broke through the window early on.

Couldn't agree with this post more. The save system in the first RE was awesome and heightened the tension. It was almost better finding a typewriter ribbon than a herb, haha.

 

[purbeast0]

Couldn't agree with this post more. The save system in the first RE was awesome and heightened the tension. It was almost better finding a typewriter ribbon than a herb, haha.

i remember parts when i had red health and i saw the door that had a typewriter in it, as well as the chest with herbs and ammo in it ... but between that door was a zombie standing there, and i was dead out of ammo....

such a great game, even though the voice acting was atrocious.

 

[Cutterhead]

OP you should try out Demon's Souls on PS3. You'd love it.

 

[tk149]

i think one thing that is even worse is having checkpoints in extremely poor locations in a game.

one that I can remember off hand that was extremely annoying was a level in Gears of War on like hte 4th level or so I think (think it was part 1 as well) where you first get hte cross bow. it literally has a check point right before an in-game-non-skippable-cutscene that took probably 1 minute or so to get through. then after that part you were faced with these new types of enemies who had crossbows and had great accuracy.

playing this on the hardest difficulty was really frustrating at this part. you didn't get another checkpoint until you defeated all of them.

Yup, add games-that-have-a-savepoint-just-before-a-long-unskippable-cutscene-followed-by-a-boss-battle to my list of pet peeves. Yeah, I'm looking at you, Luigi's Mansion! (Actually, Luigi's Mansion is actually worse. There's only ONE savepoint in the whole game, and while the game area isn't that big, enemies respawn).

 

[tk149]

OP you should try out Demon's Souls on PS3. You'd love it.

Uh oh...I picked up Demon's Souls over the holidays, but haven't opened it yet...

 

[tk149]

tk149, resident evil was first created on PSX back in 96 and it used the ribbon system to save. it added to the survival horror aspect of that game. you had very limited everything in that game, and that is what made it difficult to survive. you had to play smart and save smart or else you could end up screwed.

man that game owned so hard when it came out ... still remember getting scared shitless when the dogs broke through the window early on.

While I can appreciate the developers wanting to add to the tension (and sense of accomplishment) in the game, it seems like an awfully lame way to do it. Sometimes something comes up, and I want to save immediately, or sometimes I play 'til my eyeballs burn, and I don't want to waste a couple of minutes backtracking before heading off to bed.

 

[artemicion]

I remember back in the day, one of my friends messed up another friend's saved game in Ultima 8 by lighting a bomb in his backpack and immediately saving the game. Every time the friend loaded the game up, he had like 3 seconds to open his inventory and throw the bomb out, otherwise it would be instant death.

He uses multiple saves now.

I don't know if that goes in the "PRO" column or the "CON" column for the "Save Anytime, Anywhere" argument.

 

[tk149]

Actually I prefer the checkpoint system. Game's are way too easy if you can just quick save constantly.

I prefer to be able to make that decision myself. You do not have to save the game often if you do not want to.

Saving at will has long been a feature of PC games. I remember the original Doom - you could not only save your player state (health and ammo), but it also saved your location, and which monsters were left alive and their locations. You could even save in the middle of a battle. Heck, I think I remember saving at will in some Apple II games!

 

[tk149]

I remember back in the day, one of my friends messed up another friend's saved game in Ultima 8 by lighting a bomb in his backpack and immediately saving the game. Every time the friend loaded the game up, he had like 3 seconds to open his inventory and throw the bomb out, otherwise it would be instant death.

He uses multiple saves now.

I don't know if that goes in the "PRO" column or the "CON" column for the "Save Anytime, Anywhere" argument.

The game Autoduel for the Apple II allowed only ONE save game per character. I got in the habit of copying the entire floppy disk regularly, which saved me when my brother got my character killed.

 

[zerocool84]

I prefer to be able to make that decision myself. You do not have to save the game often if you do not want to.

Saving at will has long been a feature of PC games. I remember the original Doom - you could not only save your player state (health and ammo), but it also saved your location, and which monsters were left alive and their locations. You could even save in the middle of a battle. Heck, I think I remember saving at will in some Apple II games!

No that's not true. There' still many PC games that have save areas/checkpoints. Being able to save where ever you want is good for some games and bad for others because like others have already said, it can make games too easy.

 

[tk149]

No that's not true. There' still many PC games that have save areas/checkpoints. Being able to save where ever you want is good for some games and bad for others because like others have already said, it can make games too easy.

I didn't mean to imply that ALL PC games have the ability to save at will. But most of the ones I've played generally do.

I suspect that most of the ones you are thinking of are console ports.

Anyway, like I said, I prefer to be able to make the decision myself on whether to save or not. Back when I had more time to play games, sometimes I would intentionally not save a game more than once per level/area. You don't have to save a game if you want to artificially ramp up the difficulty.

 

[BoberFett]

The only reason Fallout need's quick saves is due to the abundance of game breaking glitches.

I had to replay a few hours worth of Fallout because I hadn't done a manual save for a while and it crashed as I was exiting a building, corrupting my autosave slot in the process. After that I found myself saving every five to ten minutes for the remainder of the game.

 

[Dumac]

Actually I prefer the checkpoint system. Game's are way too easy if you can just quick save constantly.

What about the Demons Souls system, where you can save anytime/anywhere, but the game also autosaves and there is only one save slot, meaning you can't backtrack or reload if you screw up (unless you "cheat" by shutting off ps3 immediately).

I really liked that.

 

[TecHNooB]

I saved every time I encountered a save point in GOW3. Didn't know there was a limit until I got to the upper labyrinth.

 

[Pia]

Checkpoints/savepoints are just better.

When there is unlimited saving, and you make up your own rules about when to save etc., you are doing the job game designers should be doing, balancing the game so that it is exciting and challenging. Should you choose to never save, rarely is the game so fair that it's actually reasonable to play that way.

The problem of the real world intruding can be 100% solved by letting the player pause the game, quit game, and later resume from where they left. This does not require unlimited saving. The only things unlimited saving do are to allow the game designer to get away with unfair and stupid designs without being called on it, and to allow the player to go through the game in what is practically god mode.

 

[Soundmanred]

Luigi's Mansion! (Actually, Luigi's Mansion is actually worse. There's only ONE savepoint in the whole game, and while the game area isn't that big, enemies respawn).

You did realize ever Toad you encountered saved your game for you if you asked, didn't you?
There are quite a few - front hall, balcony, shed, bathroom, etc...

 

[tk149]

Checkpoints/savepoints are just better.

When there is unlimited saving, and you make up your own rules about when to save etc., you are doing the job game designers should be doing, balancing the game so that it is exciting and challenging. Should you choose to never save, rarely is the game so fair that it's actually reasonable to play that way.

I respectfully disagree. Doom, Quake, Half-Life, Starcraft, and Knights of the Old Republic all worked wonderfully with save-at-will.

The problem of the real world intruding can be 100% solved by letting the player pause the game, quit game, and later resume from where they left. This does not require unlimited saving. The only things unlimited saving do are to allow the game designer to get away with unfair and stupid designs without being called on it, and to allow the player to go through the game in what is practically god mode.

This would be brilliant, but do any games exist that use checkpoints and "resume state" after quitting?

 

[purbeast0]

I saved every time I encountered a save point in GOW3. Didn't know there was a limit until I got to the upper labyrinth.

there was a limit in gow3?