Rangel's Tax Increase Proposal

[Pabster]

Story here.

Charlie's got the tax hammer in full swing. Who will be struck next?

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Pabster
Story here.

Charlie's got the tax hammer in full swing. Who will be struck next?

Well the top 5% already pays more in taxes than they did before Bush's tax cut.

And this really doesnt matter, in 15-20 years, taxes will be atleast 50% higher than they are no with the top tax bracket cracking 60%.

Me personally, if I could do it, id save a whole crap load of money over the next 15-20 years an expatriate to the caribean. A las that is not likely to happen, and I will be here when my generation takes over power with American in shambles...

 

[theeedude]

Long overdue. What they should really do is remove SS tax cap.

 

[ProfJohn]

You ad a surtax like that and people will start to hide income rather than pay the tax.

If it is 4.5% on all money earned over $150,000 it wouldn't be as bad.
But if the surtax is hit on your entire income you would see people who are closing in on the $150,000 mark start to take time off or something so as to not get the big tax hit.

 

[bamacre]

Oh, look, our gov't needs more money. What else is new?

 

[theeedude]

Spend some of the surtax on better enforcement. Read the book "Perfectly Legal."

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Long overdue. What they should really do is remove SS tax cap.

I don't think that would make any difference. Most folks making "the big bucks" are not employees and therefore don't pay social security tax.

Here's a better idea...

1. Stop using SS money like it's general fund money and leave it there for its intended purpose.
2. Reduce the size of government and spend less.

I know, I know... I'm so silly... But really... we can't pay our bills with $2.4 trillion?

 

[wirelessenabled]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: senseamp
Long overdue. What they should really do is remove SS tax cap.

I don't think that would make any difference. Most folks making "the big bucks" are not employees and therefore don't pay social security tax.

Here's a better idea...

1. Stop using SS money like it's general fund money and leave it there for its intended purpose.
2. Reduce the size of government and spend less.

I know, I know... I'm so silly... But really... we can't pay our bills with $2.4 trillion?

Have you heard of self employment tax? Substitute for SS tax.

 

[IronWing]

Simply treat all income equally, regardless of source. No more tax break for capital gains.

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: ironwing
Simply treat all income equally, regardless of source. No more tax break for capital gains.

I'm far from an accountant, but I really like this idea.

Basically they should pick a % of total gross income, say 20% as an example, and that's everyones tax. No writeoffs, no loopholes, nothing.

You earned a gross of 30k this year? Fine, your taxes due are $6k. You earned $300k this year? Fine, your taxes due are $60k.

If the government can't subsist on what they take in under this system, then they either raise the % taxed on everyone, cut government spending, or, a mixture of both.

This seems the most fair to everyone.

Of course people under the poverty line would continue to pay no taxes.

Why can't we just have a simple system like this????

Chuck

 

[theeedude]

That's what I mean, get rid of separate income, payroll, and cap gains taxes. Fund everything with income taxes.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Pabster
Story here.

Charlie's got the tax hammer in full swing. Who will be struck next?

Well the top 5% already pays more in taxes than they did before Bush's tax cut.

Link? There is no way with a long term capital gains tax lowered to 15% (instead of marginal tax rates) that the top 5% pay a larger % of their income in taxes than they did before Bush's tax cuts. They may be paying more because they make a hell of a lot more or they may be paying more of the % of the overall taxes than they were before (because everyone dropped) but they are not paying a higher marginal rate. Prove me wrong.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: wirelessenabled

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: senseamp
Long overdue. What they should really do is remove SS tax cap.

I don't think that would make any difference. Most folks making "the big bucks" are not employees and therefore don't pay social security tax.

Here's a better idea...

1. Stop using SS money like it's general fund money and leave it there for its intended purpose.
2. Reduce the size of government and spend less.

I know, I know... I'm so silly... But really... we can't pay our bills with $2.4 trillion?

Have you heard of self employment tax? Substitute for SS tax.

Yes, but it doesn't apply if your income comes from investments. Which is how the super (evil) rich make their money. And even when someone is eligible for self employment tax it doesn't go to the SS fund.

All I'm saying is that raising the income limits on SS won't solve the problem.

So again I propose the following:
1. Stop using SS money like it's general fund money and leave it there for its intended purpose.
2. Reduce the size of government and spend less.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: senseamp
Long overdue. What they should really do is remove SS tax cap.

I don't think that would make any difference. Most folks making "the big bucks" are not employees and therefore don't pay social security tax.

Here's a better idea...

1. Stop using SS money like it's general fund money and leave it there for its intended purpose.
2. Reduce the size of government and spend less.

I know, I know... I'm so silly... But really... we can't pay our bills with $2.4 trillion?

I tend to agree with you but that 2.4 trillion mark sounds familiar....oh yea, the war costs. Hard to cut spending when you're porking out on stuff like that (not that SS and Medicare will be any cheaper, mind you).

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: ironwing
Simply treat all income equally, regardless of source. No more tax break for capital gains.

I'm far from an accountant, but I really like this idea.

Basically they should pick a % of total gross income, say 20% as an example, and that's everyones tax. No writeoffs, no loopholes, nothing.

You earned a gross of 30k this year? Fine, your taxes due are $6k. You earned $300k this year? Fine, your taxes due are $60k.

If the government can't subsist on what they take in under this system, then they either raise the % taxed on everyone, cut government spending, or, a mixture of both.

This seems the most fair to everyone.

Of course people under the poverty line would continue to pay no taxes.

Why can't we just have a simple system like this????

Chuck

Of course it would be "fair" unitl "your" taxes went up. I wonder how many of you have sat down and really calculated what your effective federal tax rate (with and without SS/Medicare) really is? If you have kids and are married, I doubt that many in here pay anywhere near 20% and for most, that's with SS/Medicare included (state and local taxes not included).

 

[techs]

About time the rich paid the taxes they deserve to pay.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Spend some of the surtax on better enforcement. Read the book "Perfectly Legal."

Yeah because just like the war on drugs. The war on enforcement just needs more money to curb the abuses lol

 

[bamx2]

We need to overhaul the tax system fast - www.fairtax.org

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: techs
About time the rich paid the taxes they deserve to pay.

Rob Peter to pay Paul.

What happens when Peter refuses to pay - can Paul support himself or is he so used to handouts that he will scream bloody murder?

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Pabster
Story here.

Charlie's got the tax hammer in full swing. Who will be struck next?

Well the top 5% already pays more in taxes than they did before Bush's tax cut.

And this really doesnt matter, in 15-20 years, taxes will be atleast 50% higher than they are no with the top tax bracket cracking 60%.

Me personally, if I could do it, id save a whole crap load of money over the next 15-20 years an expatriate to the caribean. A las that is not likely to happen, and I will be here when my generation takes over power with American in shambles...

Individual Income Tax Receipts (millions of $)

2005 . . . . . 2,153,859
2004 . . . . . 1,880,279
2003 . . . . . 1,782,532
2002 . . . . . 1,853,395
2001 . . . . . 1,991,426

2000 . . . . . 2,025,457
1999 . . . . . 1,827,645
1998 . . . . . 1,721,955
1997 . . . . . 1,579,423
1996 . . . . . 1,453,177

Individual income taxes as a percentage of overall receipts:
2000 - 49.59%
2005 - 43.05%
That would be a decrease of 13.19%.

Office of the President - Budget of the US Gov't

Come again?

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Pabster
Story here.

Charlie's got the tax hammer in full swing. Who will be struck next?

Well the top 5% already pays more in taxes than they did before Bush's tax cut.

Link? There is no way with a long term capital gains tax lowered to 15% (instead of marginal tax rates) that the top 5% pay a larger % of their income in taxes than they did before Bush's tax cuts. They may be paying more because they make a hell of a lot more or they may be paying more of the % of the overall taxes than they were before (because everyone dropped) but they are not paying a higher marginal rate. Prove me wrong.

There is no link because it's false.

As an aside:
I love that we have to tax cigarettes to fund the potential SCHIP expansion of only a few billion dollars but there is no tax increase needed to pay another $200 billion for the war.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: ironwing
Simply treat all income equally, regardless of source. No more tax break for capital gains.

I'm far from an accountant, but I really like this idea.

Basically they should pick a % of total gross income, say 20% as an example, and that's everyones tax. No writeoffs, no loopholes, nothing.

You earned a gross of 30k this year? Fine, your taxes due are $6k. You earned $300k this year? Fine, your taxes due are $60k.

If the government can't subsist on what they take in under this system, then they either raise the % taxed on everyone, cut government spending, or, a mixture of both.

This seems the most fair to everyone.

Of course people under the poverty line would continue to pay no taxes.

Why can't we just have a simple system like this????

Chuck

On the face of it the simplicity sounds nice and is apealing. However, the problem is that implementing a flat tax system would shift the tax burden from the rich, who currently shoulder the lion's share of taxes (the top 5% pay over 50% of the taxes, the top 20% pay @ 80%, the top 50% pay @ 95%), to the middle-class and lower income earners. To offset that in a flat tax system taxes would still have to be progressively oriented, and then we'd end up with the same convoluted mess we have now. iirc, I recall reading that if a flat tax were implemented that the tax rate would have to be somewhere in the range of 25%+ for eveyone in order to provide the same income to the government that it now garners in the curent system.

Engineer is correct as well. Tax cuts for the wealthy, counterintuitively to what one would think would happen, have commonly resulted in the wealthy paying an increased percentage of taxes. Here's an old article on the subject, but the trend of the wealthy paying an increased share when their taxes are lowered has been ongoing for years:

http://www.nationalreview.com/...rtlett200512070900.asp

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: techs
About time the rich paid the taxes they deserve to pay.

Rob Peter to pay Paul.

What happens when Peter refuses to pay -

Obviously Revolution II

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: techs
About time the rich paid the taxes they deserve to pay.

Such jealousy. They already pay more than you do so that you can sit on your butt making crap wages and not footing the bill for things you use. The rich keep this country going because they pay a disproportionately huge amount of taxes.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: techs
About time the rich paid the taxes they deserve to pay.

Such jealousy. They already pay more than you do so that you can sit on your butt making crap wages and not footing the bill for things you use. The rich keep this country going because they pay a disproportionately huge amount of taxes.

Is this true only in regards to income taxes, or all taxes.