RANDOM LOCK UPS AND REBOOTS

[Rhezuss]

I'm writing this post for those of us who have those random freezes, lock ups and reboots.

DISCLAIMER: This post does not hold the absolute truth and the ultimate method to solve this issue. It is a compilation of things I have done on my computer that helped me understand and correct (for now) this issue. *crosses fingers*

With that said, here are the steps I took on from the first day those lock ups occured.

1- My current RIG was updated decembre 2005 (see sig.). It was running rock solid and was very stable until the 1st week of march. My computer started acting weird. Freezes and reboots were happening at random times. On a cold start, all was running ok and then, 5 minutes, 5 hours or 1 day later, the problem happened again. That's when I started to check these forums for answers.

2- I read some posts talking about faulty power supplies. Mine was an old and dated 350W. After some reading, I decided it could be the problem with my freezes so I bought a new OCZ 450W PSU. After only 1 day of playing and other things, it happened again.

3- Right after that, I decided I'd format my computer and try it under a fresh WinXP
install. That I did and updated all the drivers (VIA, Ethernet, Graphic card, Sound,
Windows updates, etc). After only 2-3 hours later, BOOM! Happened again.

4- Then, I moved my hardware in the computer case to let the air circulate easier and i've cleaned the case from dust and other things.

5- I came back to these forums and found another clue. One guy had found that some driver version of the motherboard integrated LAN was causing computer instabilities.
The Marvell Yukon driver 7.xx.x.x (x= I don't recall which version) was faulty and the new version 8.49.3.2 were supposedly stable. I installed them and so far so good.

6- I found that my video card was on the same IRQ than my sound card. Many of you don't think it as a problem but some mentionned that in rare cases, it can cause some lock ups. So I placed my sound card on another PCI slot not shared with the AGP slot. So far so good.

7- Another guy was talking about issues caused by having Legacy USB enabled in the BIOS, which is by default. I disabled it. So far so good.

8- I checked my temps and everything seems to be normal.

CPU idle: 35-37 degrees
CPU full throttle: 37-42 degrees

Video card idle: 57-58 degrees
Video card full throttle: 62-65 degrees

Motherboard: 27-32 degrees (approximately)
Ambient temp: 30 degrees (average, if I recall correctly)

So for now, it's been 3 days and everything is running smoothly. I know it's too soon to
be sure everything is flawless, but I just wanted to share this with you just in case it could help someone.

 

[imported_nocturne]

I would probally say the majority of the problems in this board are related to "random rebooting" or "mysterious crashes." Usually by disabling the "Automatic Reboot in case of BSOD" you can get a lot closer to finding the source of the problem. This often points you to IRQ conflicts, broken drivers, or incompatible bios settings. Also, stop codes can help narrow down hardware problems. Furthermore, dump files from crashes can be debug with the proper tools to further investigate the cause.

Seeing as this is a very common problem, perhaps we could organize a FAQ thread with a sticky with all applicable info?

 

[Rhezuss]

Originally posted by: nocturneSeeing as this is a very common problem, perhaps we could organize a FAQ thread with a sticky with all applicable info?

It is a great idea, like you said, it is a common problem nowadays. This way, we could gather as many info as possible in one and only thread for all to read.

 

[imported_nocturne]

posted a somewhat general guide
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=32&threadid=1819174&enterthread=y

 

[BadThad]

Good info. I wish more people searched the forums before posting!

 

[imported_nocturne]

well... hopefully it'll get a sticky so it can stay at the top of the list.

I know it's not exactly the most advanced info, but those that are "advanced" can certainly fend for themselves

 

[Rhezuss]

Ahhhh!!!!!!!

It's happening again. I've checked and done everything I could. The only thing I didn't try yet is try another powerbar but I don't think it can solve anything.

EDIT: For those that can read it, could you tell me if my voltage is ok:

VCoreA: 1.47V
+3.3V: 3.31V
+5V: 4.99V
+12V: 11.40 - 11.50V
-12V: 6.07V
+5VSB: 4.99V
+VBAT: 3.26V

 

[Rhezuss]

Ok here's the status:

Yesterday morning my monitor was not receiving a signal (PLEASE CHECK SIGNAL CABLE). When I came back from work, my comp was booting and the monitor was ok (don't know why). Then those lock ups and reboots occured again all evening.

This morning, my monitor isn't receiving any signal again. :|

Here's what i've done this morning to test:

1- Plugged another computer with my monitor: WORKING

2- Plugged my 6800GS in the other computer: WORKING

3- Plugged an old Hercules 3DProphet 4500 Kyro2 in my comp: WORKING

4- Re-plugged my 6800GS in my comp: NOT WORKING

5- Tried another powerbar: NOT WORKING

6- Plugged my comp in another room in my appartment: NOT WORKING

So it's not a power issue since everything is powered up and starts running.
Could it be my motherboard or the AGP slot is defect?

I'd really love some ideas to where to check next, i'm really at a loss right now, i can't find anything else to try or check.

Thanks again.

 

[imported_nocturne]

Well... your 12v rating is awfull low (and the -12V should be -12V). Seeing as part of the 12v power supplies the cpu and mobo, it could have a drastic effect on stability. You could always try unplugging fans, cd/dvd drives, or accessories. (typically, 5v should be 5v, 3v = 3v, and so on).

More than likely, the missing signal and the crashes are not related, but could both be symptoms of a bad video card...

 

[Rhezuss]

Originally posted by: nocturne
Well... your 12v rating is awfull low (and the -12V should be -12V). Seeing as part of the 12v power supplies the cpu and mobo, it could have a drastic effect on stability. You could always try unplugging fans, cd/dvd drives, or accessories. (typically, 5v should be 5v, 3v = 3v, and so on).

More than likely, the missing signal and the crashes are not related, but could both be symptoms of a bad video card...

For my voltage, could this mean a bad circuit in the building or something like that? Since my PSU is new, I hope it's not broke yet...well i'm sure it's not.

I heard that motherboards based on the VIA chipset (K8T800 and K8T800Pro) were sometimes causing crashes and reboots.

I called a computer shop and they told me they were having enough returns and repairs on VIA boards that they are calling all the manufacturers to see if they are aware of this issue.

I hope to hear something new soon.

For the Graphic card, I certainly HOPE it's not that part, I got it 2 months ago and didn't overclocked it, only unlocked the extra pipes....maybe that's the issue.

 

[Bushman5]

it coould also be that some how something is drawing alot of power from the ps. ive seen lots of differe t thing. fault mobo. rite up to the way the mobo was mounted to case their actual;ly was a small electrical current hitting the case

 

[Rhezuss]

Good point you have there, i'll try remounting my system.

Thanks....the other thing would be to get a new mobo dammit

 

[imported_nocturne]

Could you give a list of everything you got hooked up? Something is definately drawing too much power. You could also try to call OCZ and ask them about the -12V and see if you might need a replacement.

I just built a 3000+, 6600gt, & dual-dvdrw on a 420W TT PSU, and although I thought it was low at 11.9 on 12V it was still powerful enough...


Although your voltages are concerning, you might want to check your BIOS settings. Also, are you getting a BSOD when it crashes, or just no signal (make sure automatic restart is disabled - check guide post above)? If yes, which error is XP reporting?

 

[Rhezuss]

Originally posted by: nocturne
Could you give a list of everything you got hooked up? Something is definately drawing too much power. You could also try to call OCZ and ask them about the -12V and see if you might need a replacement.

I just built a 3000+, 6600gt, & dual-dvdrw on a 420W TT PSU, and although I thought it was low at 11.9 on 12V it was still powerful enough...


Although your voltages are concerning, you might want to check your BIOS settings. Also, are you getting a BSOD when it crashes, or just no signal (make sure automatic restart is disabled - check guide post above)? If yes, which error is XP reporting?

No BSOD at all. What I have plugged:

A8V with A64 3200+ Venice Core (no OC, with stock fan)
1 BFG 6800GS OC 256mb AGP (unlocked, no OC)
1 Sound Blaster Audigy 1 (OEM)
1x 512mb of Kingston CL3 DDR400 (dual)
1x 512mb of XYZ DDR333 (dual)
1 WD 120gb 8mb 7200RPM (IDE)
1 LG DVD-ROM 52x
1 LG CD-RW 52x32x52x
1 Floppy disk
1 80mm Antec case fan
OCZ Modstream 450W PSU

I was running this config with an old 350W PSU and it was running fine for some months then those lock ups occured and I got the OCZ PSU thinking it was defect. Could it be the building wiring is faulty? I've been living here for the past 1.5 years and it is the first time it happen.

I'll try my computer at my brother's house and see if there's any changes.

 

[GalvanizedYankee]

Your PSU does have Active PFC and that should cover any voltage flucuation from
90 to 130VAC with ease.
Since your going to pull the board, examine it very well for caps that are bulging, swelling,
leaking rust brown baby poop, tilting caused by swelling at the bottom, any doming of the
aluminum cover(they should be dead flat).

I bring this up because you have tried many other steps to find the cause of reboots.
Generally the caps near the FETS that support the CPU will be amoung the first to swell.
The caps to look at most closly will be 8 to 12.5mm in diameter.

Most often a RMA can be had, even past warrenty for bad caps. You have to ask nicely

For pics and symptoms http://www.motherboardrepair.com/ or http://www.badcaps.net/


...Galvanized

 

[Rhezuss]

Ok here's an update:

I brought my computer to a friend. This friend have a K8V Deluxe with an A64 3200+ S754 and similar config as mine (see sig). I plugged the card in his system, though the first boot the screen didn't came on, we tried again and the 6800GS was running fine for 15 minutes.

Then we took his 9800PRO and plugged it in my system and it worked.

We entered BIOS and loaded the default settings. We replugged my 6800GS in my computer and rebooted and....IT WORKED! :Q

Then he tested my voltages with his tool and we found out they were normal, not those that I posted above, shown by some monitoring software.

So I took my things and ride back home. Plugged my computer and....DIDN'T WORKED. I tested my voltages just to compare and they were the same. :|

I decided to ride to my parent's house and entrusted my 6800GS to my brother. I plugged it in his computer, Athlon XP 2500+ Barton, A7V8X-X, 350W PSU, etc. Though the first boot the screen didn't came on, we tried again and the thing was running ok. He played HL2 for some minutes and it was running great. I'll entrust my 6800GS to him for the week so i'll be sure it's not the card fault.

I borrowed his FX5600 and plugged it in my system and it works. I'll run some games with it and see if all runs without lock ups or reboots.

So here I am, my 6800GS runs great out of my case. Every other video cards run great in my case.

That is all I have to share for nom....i'm a little upset as of late. I'm thinking about replacing my motherboard but am afraid it could happen again.

If you have any other ideas, news, updates about this issue, please post it here.

Thanks a lot for all your advices and good day to you all.

 

[imported_nocturne]

Well... since there isn't a BSOD, it is purely a hardware problem. If your mobo doesn't show any obvious signs of defects, it might be worth re-locking the pipes on the vga card. Also, it might be worth updating your chipset drivers and BIOS (can help clear up incompatibilities with specific hardware).

 

[Rhezuss]

Originally posted by: nocturne
Well... since there isn't a BSOD, it is purely a hardware problem. If your mobo doesn't show any obvious signs of defects, it might be worth re-locking the pipes on the vga card. Also, it might be worth updating your chipset drivers and BIOS (can help clear up incompatibilities with specific hardware).

That has already been done.

My friend (a comp tech) told me he was often RMA ASUS boards for a replacement of the Q25 chip near the AGP slot. This chip was causing instabilities. I can't seem to locate this ship to see if it leaked, it's so tiny.

Anyways, i'll let my brother test the card for some more days and take a decision after that. If the card work, then i'll replace the motherboard. I'm leaning toward the ASrock 939Dual. It has both AGP and PCI-E and there's an "addon" to fit socket AM2 later. Though it's not the best quality, i've heard some good things about this board.

This issue is like searching for a white cat in a room filled with tissues.

 

[Rhezuss]

Could it be a WinXP SP2 conflict with some drivers/softwares etc?

I know that M$ is aware of some issues with SP2...i'll try to reformat and reinstall everything except SP2.

 

[DBSX]

Could it be a WinXP SP2 conflict with some drivers/softwares etc?

I know that M$ is aware of some issues with SP2...i'll try to reformat and reinstall everything except SP2.

While I can say I am not sure about your specific problem, I doubt that there is a problem with SP2 and your particular hardware. I'd bet a decent amount that there are lots of other people using similar setups that have no troubles using Service Pack 2 in combination with your (or similar) hardware. I agree with someone above, it is probably a hardware problem.

Another thing you should test, which I did not see mentioned, is your memory. BSOD or not, RAM is usually the single biggest "error producing" piece of hardware in my experience. Check both sticks using memtest. Also try one stick at a time and see if that helps. Sorry if I missed you took this step already.

On another note, I am not sure what "M$" is and what it has to do with Microsoft and it's operating system...

\Dan

 

[liquidblue]

This is almost the same problem I have. Or could be the same.. who the hell knows.

I?ve posted in 3dguru forums to no avail. Here?s what happened:

Built the following system
A64 3200+
ATA Drive
Floppy Drive
DVD+/-RW
k8n Neo2Plat (nForce 3 Ultra)
1 GB OCZ Plat Rev 2
Enermax 460W
ati x800 pro
Coolermaster Case (big fan in the back and a smaller one in the front)
+ Just added an Audigy ZS

After finishing Doom 3 and playing through BF2 for a while, PC started rebooting and giving weird errors. Temperatures are stable and I have not overclocked anything. In fact, I remember this started happening when I first updated the ATI drivers (initially had the CD drivers). After countless problems and fresh installs (and a legit winXP copy), everything was going well for months. Life was well.

Then I was looking at Yahoo maps recently and scrolled up in the map and my monitor went ?out of sync.? I knew it was the beginning of hell. After that, my machine kept rebooting or going out of sync simply by browsing the web! If I went into games, I would get black screens for like 30 secs and it went back into the game ? sometimes with artifacts. Other times I would get booted to desktop with a message saying that the video card wasn?t responding to driver commands (or something like that). This was notorious with the official ATI drivers and CCC. I even ran memtest just to make sure it?s not memory (for like 12 hrs) and even did the benchmark program (forgot the name) without crashing, which surprised me. Oh, and another problem was the monitor going into standby - PC fully working (was typing and did ctrl-s and it saved).

I switched to Omega ATI Drivers and although I don?t get that message, I still get random reboots and basically can?t play games or surf the web unless I uninstall the ATI or Omega drivers and use the PC with the generic Windows drivers. I tried an old GeForce 2 GTS card on my system and it worked fine (didn?t test games ? card too old) with regular use.

I just don?t understand why it happened after viewing a map and even though I reformatted it still happens. This would maybe point to hardware, but why didn't it happen all the time? It?s been only a year, building another system wouldn?t be wise for my wallet. And yes I used the latest drivers for everything. Is there a base I didn?t cover? Any other suggestions out there?