Rampant voter fraud as defined by GOP: 31 out of 1 billlion!

[thraashman]

Obviously they aren't equivalent. A whole hell of a lot more harm and damage can come from a vote.



I don't know what state you live in but that's exactly the way it works in every state that I've ever lived in.

In any place where open carry is legal you cannot be stopped and forced to show identification simply for open carrying. They would have to have probable cause to require you to show ID. If they ask, you can refuse and they cannot do anything.

Facinating, you vote every day and everywhere you go?

No, but if you have to show ID every time you exercise your right to vote, then equivalent would be you have to show ID every time you exercise your right to bear arms. Try to keep up to how equivalence works.

 

[glenn1]

In any place where open carry is legal you cannot be stopped and forced to show identification simply for open carrying. They would have to have probable cause to require you to show ID. If they ask, you can refuse and they cannot do anything.


No, but if you have to show ID every time you exercise your right to vote, then equivalent would be you have to show ID every time you exercise your right to bear arms. Try to keep up to how equivalence works.

Again, GOP going about this all wrong. Plenty of ways to handle this:

1. Make the ID requirement one to renew eligibility for welfare, social security, and other benefits and make the deadline shortly before the election. Problem solved.

2. Fingerprint anyone without ID showing up to vote. If they clear through for no outstanding warrants, etc. then allow them to vote. Next time, their fingerprints will already be on file and photo ID is a moot point.

3. Skip the entire exercise and just take a statistical sample to estimate how many people in each voting district without IDs. Award that number of votes to the Democrats and refuse any persons without IDs, saving the 'voters' the trouble of showing up to the polls at all. Since Democrats don't seem to care about fraud let's just give them the chance to maximize it, at least it will be a quantifiable amount.

 

[smackababy]

I am still baffled at why requiring an ID to vote is seen as some kind of travesty. You need an ID to buy alcohol, cash a check, drive a car, get a library card, sign up for any kind of monthly service... Are there really that many voters who don't have a valid state or government ID? How the fuck do these people even register to vote?

 

[fskimospy]

Again, GOP going about this all wrong. Plenty of ways to handle this:

1. Make the ID requirement one to renew eligibility for welfare, social security, and other benefits and make the deadline shortly before the election. Problem solved.

2. Fingerprint anyone without ID showing up to vote. If they clear through for no outstanding warrants, etc. then allow them to vote. Next time, their fingerprints will already be on file and photo ID is a moot point.

3. Skip the entire exercise and just take a statistical sample to estimate how many people in each voting district without IDs. Award that number of votes to the Democrats and refuse any persons without IDs, saving the 'voters' the trouble of showing up to the polls at all. Since Democrats don't seem to care about fraud let's just give them the chance to maximize it, at least it will be a quantifiable amount.

I like how you think that not caring about the nonexistent fraud that you keep pushing equals not caring about fraud. Let's just call it a bias towards reality.

Now if you're genuinely concerned about voter fraud let's tackle it together! First thing we're going to need to go after is absentee ballots. Just so you know, this will likely lead to Republicans getting fewer votes in elections, but since you're concerned with fraud and not helping Republicans that shouldn't matter to you, right?

 

[fskimospy]

I am still baffled at why requiring an ID to vote is seen as some kind of travesty. You need an ID to buy alcohol, cash a check, drive a car, get a library card, sign up for any kind of monthly service... Are there really that many voters who don't have a valid state or government ID? How the fuck do these people even register to vote?

I am still baffled why people want to work so hard to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[realibrad]

I am still baffled at why requiring an ID to vote is seen as some kind of travesty. You need an ID to buy alcohol, cash a check, drive a car, get a library card, sign up for any kind of monthly service... Are there really that many voters who don't have a valid state or government ID? How the fuck do these people even register to vote?

The question is why is it needed. If you are required to show ID for legal activity, where does it stop? I dont show ID when I shoes.

 

[smackababy]

I am still baffled why people want to work so hard to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

I am not advocating doing it, if for the only reason that enforcement of this is likely to be on a bloated, wasteful budget and cost me (a tax payer) money.

I just think it is stupid that people are so adamant about an ID check for something that requires you to be who you say you are.


Requiring an ID to buy a gun? A Okay! Requiring an ID to vote? Omg! Police state! Tyranny! Racism!

The question is why is it needed. If you are required to show ID for legal activity, where does it stop? I dont show ID when I shoes.

You're right. We should remove all ID checks for legal activity. Next time I go to legally purchase some beer, I'll be sure to inform them of that. Oh, but I need to prove I am actually of legal age to purchase alcohol... Voting is different though. I don't have to prove I am who I say I am when I am voting!

 

[glenn1]

Now if you're genuinely concerned about voter fraud let's tackle it together! First thing we're going to need to go after is absentee ballots. Just so you know, this will likely lead to Republicans getting fewer votes in elections, but since you're concerned with fraud and not helping Republicans that shouldn't matter to you, right?

I support efforts on absentee and any other kind of voter fraud also; although unlike you I don't think we can't run the efforts in parallel and can only focus on absentee first. And I don't care who benefits or is harmed by the efforts; if after fixing fraud sources then Democrats won every election because it was fair and truly represented the voter will then good!

 

[fskimospy]

I am not advocating doing it, if for the only reason that enforcement of this is likely to be on a bloated, wasteful budget and cost me (a tax payer) money.

I just think it is stupid that people are so adamant about an ID check for something that requires you to be who you say you are.


Requiring an ID to buy a gun? A Okay! Requiring an ID to vote? Omg! Police state! Tyranny! Racism!

Is there evidence that people who are not legally allowed to buy guns do in fact purchase them? Yes!

Is there evidence that people are voting illegally in a way that ID for voting would prevent? No!

Mystery solved.

 

[glenn1]

I am not advocating doing it, if for the only reason that enforcement of this is likely to be on a bloated, wasteful budget and cost me (a tax payer) money.

I just think it is stupid that people are so adamant about an ID check for something that requires you to be who you say you are.


Requiring an ID to buy a gun? A Okay! Requiring an ID to vote? Omg! Police state! Tyranny! Racism!



You're right. We should remove all ID checks for legal activity. Next time I go to legally purchase some beer, I'll be sure to inform them of that. Oh, but I need to prove I am actually of legal age to purchase alcohol... Voting is different though. I don't have to prove I am who I say I am when I am voting!

ID check for abortion anyone? That's a legal activity too.

 

[fskimospy]

I support efforts on absentee and any other kind of voter fraud also; although unlike you I don't think we can't run the efforts in parallel and can only focus on absentee first. And I don't care who benefits or is harmed by the efforts; if after fixing fraud sources then Democrats won every election because it was fair and truly represented the voter will then good!

I'm glad that we agree on absentee ballots! I still am not going to support irrational laws, but it's good to see that people will at least support the rational ones.

 

[glenn1]

I'm glad that we agree on absentee ballots! I still am not going to support irrational laws, but it's good to see that people will at least support the rational ones.

Irrational is not defined as "I personally do not see the benefits." You can value "ensuring maximum voter participation even if it might allow for fraud" over "ensuring minimum voter fraud even if some voters may be inconvenienced" but neither is an irrational position.

 

[fskimospy]

Irrational is not defined as "I personally do not see the benefits." You can value "ensuring maximum voter participation even if it might allow for fraud" over "ensuring minimum voter fraud even if some voters may be inconvenienced" but neither is an irrational position.

No, irrational is defined as "not logical or reasonable".

Enacting additional regulations that makes it harder for people to vote in order to combat a problem that does not exist is not logical or reasonable. Thus, it is irrational.

 

[BUnit1701]

No, irrational is defined as "not logical or reasonable".

Enacting additional regulations that makes it harder for people to vote in order to combat a problem that does not exist is not logical or reasonable. Thus, it is irrational.

Yea, voter fraud doesn't exist...

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Dead-and-Still-Voting-177286281.html

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...g-Island-Nassau-County-Newsday-230030371.html

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76443.html

And that took just a minute or two on Google to find.

 

[fskimospy]

Yea, voter fraud doesn't exist...

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Dead-and-Still-Voting-177286281.html

No evidence that any of the cases were in-person voter fraud, the only type of voter fraud that ID prevents.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...g-Island-Nassau-County-Newsday-230030371.html

From your own link no evidence of fraud, much less in-person voter fraud, the only type of voter fraud that ID prevents.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76443.html

Not even a mention of any voting, much less fraud, much less in-person voter fraud.

And that took just a minute or two on Google to find.

Sounds like you might want to spend more than a minute or two next time, lol.

 

[glenn1]

No, irrational is defined as "not logical or reasonable".

Enacting additional regulations that makes it harder for people to vote in order to combat a problem that does not exist is not logical or reasonable. Thus, it is irrational.

No, saying in-person voter impersonation "doesn't exist" is irrational. Saying "it occurs at a level I find acceptable" is at least intellectually honest. Somehow you can make the case that regulations making it harder for people to purchase guns are an acceptable cost, yet oppose absolutely any cost when the right involved is voting. Which is why I proposed just giving Democrats the votes of anyone who shows up without ID, at least that would strip you of the fig leaf of even pretending to care if fraud is committed.

 

[fskimospy]

No, saying in-person voter impersonation "doesn't exist" is irrational.

If you believe that 31 cases out of 1 billion is a meaningful number that requires action I guess that's up to you. I consider one case for every 32 million votes cast to be nonexistent for all intents and purposes.

Saying "it occurs at a level I find acceptable" is at least intellectually honest. Somehow you can make the case that regulations making it harder for people to purchase guns are an acceptable cost, yet oppose absolutely any cost when the right involved is voting.

This is of course obviously false. I support voter registration, which is a clear cost involved with voting.

Lots of people who aren't allowed to purchase guns do so, therefore enacting regulations to make this harder is rational.

Effectively no one commits in-person voter fraud, therefore enacting regulations to make this harder is irrational.

This is pretty basic logic. What's funny is that your standard for taking the action of requiring universal, nationwide identification is about 1 incident in every 32 million.

There are somewhere around 300 million guns in the US and there were approximately 100,000 firearms related injuries and fatalities last year. That's an incident rate of 1 for every 3,000 guns. Considering that 1 in 32 million = nationwide ID, what does 1 in 3,000 merit? Perhaps a mandatory policeman assigned to watch each gun owner?

Which is why I proposed just giving Democrats the votes of anyone who shows up without ID, at least that would strip you of the fig leaf of even pretending to care if fraud is committed.

I'm sorry that you're so angry that I don't support irrational laws. Like I said, if you wish to support cracking down on voter fraud that actually exists in reality, I'm all for it. I do not believe you do.

 

[xBiffx]

In any place where open carry is legal you cannot be stopped and forced to show identification simply for open carrying. They would have to have probable cause to require you to show ID. If they ask, you can refuse and they cannot do anything.

Like hell you can't. A cop can verify I have a valid permit any time they want.

 

[Moonbeam]

No, saying in-person voter impersonation "doesn't exist" is irrational. Saying "it occurs at a level I find acceptable" is at least intellectually honest. Somehow you can make the case that regulations making it harder for people to purchase guns are an acceptable cost, yet oppose absolutely any cost when the right involved is voting. Which is why I proposed just giving Democrats the votes of anyone who shows up without ID, at least that would strip you of the fig leaf of even pretending to care if fraud is committed.

I can't make any sense out of this. Who is saying that voter impersonation doesn't exist. The illogic adheres when folk try to pass laws that deprive more people of legal votes than they prevent illegal ones by wide margins, in the name of fraud free election accuracy. The illogic is rationalizing this behavior in the name of a morality that's a fabrication, a delusion, and a fraud perpetrated on herd brain-washable CB Defectives by their handlers who know so well how to play on their mental defects.

 

[ivwshane]

No, saying in-person voter impersonation "doesn't exist" is irrational. Saying "it occurs at a level I find acceptable" is at least intellectually honest. Somehow you can make the case that regulations making it harder for people to purchase guns are an acceptable cost, yet oppose absolutely any cost when the right involved is voting. Which is why I proposed just giving Democrats the votes of anyone who shows up without ID, at least that would strip you of the fig leaf of even pretending to care if fraud is committed.

So you support making it harder for people to get guns now? I never thought of you as the gun grabber type but I guess people evolve on issues all the time. Do you also support bans on assault weapons? Why or why not?

 

[emperus]

No, saying in-person voter impersonation "doesn't exist" is irrational. Saying "it occurs at a level I find acceptable" is at least intellectually honest. Somehow you can make the case that regulations making it harder for people to purchase guns are an acceptable cost, yet oppose absolutely any cost when the right involved is voting. Which is why I proposed just giving Democrats the votes of anyone who shows up without ID, at least that would strip you of the fig leaf of even pretending to care if fraud is committed.

Are you actually pretending you don't know what the genesis of this whole movement is. Republicans don't care about the integrity of the voting system. They just care about making it harder for the segments of the population unlikely to vote for them to vote. That's why they both want to cut in person voting hours (the hardest way to commit voter fraud) and increase mail in voting(the easiest way to commit voter fraud).

Every system has a negligible error. And the 32 cases in 14 years is negligible. There is probably a bigger error in votes that are not tabulated properly or votes that get lost in the mail. Yet I don't see big campaigns to eradicate those.

 

[fskimospy]

This is a handy GIF showing just how absurd this voter ID nonsense is: